DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[Chu Gai]

3rd party reviews of any of the rocket line models with measurements are hard to come by. Other than the UltimateAV review, is there any others?

I've seen some independent reviews by owners (FR only IIRC) that looked startling different. Good IOW. I'll have to go through my notes to embelish on that, but suffice it to say, no speakers have benefitted more from crossover upgrades and it's not because the parts are technically better.

 

[Chu Gai]

Don't forget the supplier of the 15" woofer has changed as well. I would really be interested in some 3rd party measurements of the very first MFW to the current ones being offered. Something in my gut tells me they aren't going to be the same.

I'm unclear on that one Matt. I hope to have more information eventually. You could always call Shifty as I'm sure he'd tell you the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 

[MinusTheBear]

I just went back to the original post to see when this thread was created (03-16-09). The issues surrounding the original complaint originate back to 09-08-08 according to the first post in this thread with a link of the sale. We are now in January 2010. By the way I went to click on the link and it appears broken? Has that thread been deleted ? Maybe someone else can try to see if the link works for them?

 

[cmryan821]

This link works.

http://forums.av123.com/showthread.php?t=36413&highlight=sale+for+dear+friend

I believe they took it down from the regular forum, but you can still find it if you search for the title of it. I suppose I should save a screenshot of it in case the mods or fan boys read this thread, but I'm pretty sure they're just dismissing it as two or three guys making all the posts.

Edit: Just to be absolutely clear, when I say mods and fan boys, I'm speaking of the mods of the av123 forums not the audioholics forums. Just wanted to be clear and not accidentally insult the mods here.

To the mods: I am grateful that this thread has been allowed to stay open as long as it has. Thanks.

 

[Chu Gai]

Ahhh, yes. It's a touching thread. For those still banned from VA321, here's what the Purveyor of Pathos, the Friend of the Downtrodden, and the Humbly Bumbly one himself said:

Hello All…

Please forgive me for coming to you in this fashion – but a friend in need is one that I take very seriously – and more importantly, hold close to my heart.

My dear friend in California (I’ll call him RB) has come up against some financial surprises – and is in a pretty bad way given an imminent divorce. I received a frantic phone call this morning – and with Misha here (my buddy from Russia) it was hard to really take all the time necessary to deal with this properly and completely… I felt quite bad…

This dear friend who does not post here on our forums – but does read the forum often has asked me to sell some of this belongings – and his GC he has right now on our books. I’ve agreed to help – given the issues – and the timing… Again, I'm apologizing for posting all of this now - but given the circumstances - I do not have the time to quietly find private buyers for all of this gear...


He has the following gear – and these are the prices…

REF 3’s in Piano Black $1895

REF 2’s in Piano Black $795

REF 100 Centre in Piano Black $495

MFW-15’s X 2 – Satin Black $400 each

$2000 dollar av123 GC which I will add $400 dollars to - $2000 (You pay $2000 – and you get $2400)

I’m pretty sure that out of all of these goods I can get him the $5000 dollars he really needs quickly (I’ve already taken care of that today in any event). For those interested, please send me an SMS at 7202440727 or via e-mail at 7202440727@txt.att.net (please include your e-mail address or phone number)…

These will be all be paid for via my own paypal account – so it’s pretty easy for all of us…

DELIVERY IS IN TWO WEEKS FOR ANY OF THESE GOODS – (this gives each of us - especially RB - enough time to get everything packed and dealt with)…

Thanks in advance…

With humble appreciation…

mls

It was paid for with his own paypal account! Doesn't get any more secure than that.

 

[MinusTheBear]

This link works.

http://forums.av123.com/showthread.php?t=36413&highlight=sale+for+dear+friend

I believe they took it down from the regular forum, but you can still find it if you search for the title of it. I suppose I should save a screenshot of it in case the mods or fan boys read this thread, but I'm pretty sure they're just dismissing it as two or three guys making all the posts.

Thanks. I was clicking on this link here which looks like the old forum web address.

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php...ghlight=friend

 

[Chu Gai]

The thing is, you know he was lying about the whole friend's going through a divorce thing and sending him five grand in advance. Maybe he owed his good buddy Mischa money or maybe he just wanted the money because it's green.

Hey Mark!!!! How's that estate settlement coming along there? When are going to start paying off? And how come no Holly, Jolly Christmas message from Colombia? Where are the pics of everyone wishing you a happy birthday and all that good stuff? No pics of the Ridgeback?

 

[NicolasKL]

I’ve already taken care of that today in any event

Why would he even say that? Typical tacky self-promotion, plus it would seem just plain idiotic to say you just sent 5 grand to a buddy when you owe untold thousands to charities. I guess that must have been before all that info came out?

What a boob.

 

[gonk]

Why would he even say that? Typical tacky self-promotion, plus it would seem just plain idiotic to say you just sent 5 grand to a buddy when you owe untold thousands to charities. I guess that must have been before all that info came out?

What a boob.

In September 2008, I don't think there was any hint that the raffles were owed money ("underfunded" / "stolen from") or that requested refunds were not being paid in a timely fashion. It is an odd situation, though - I've always wondered what reason was ever given (if any) for why the "buddy" never shipped the speakers.

 

[cmryan821]

The thing is, you know he was lying about the whole friend's going through a divorce thing and sending him five grand in advance.

I came to that conclusion at some point this past year(man this whole thing has been going on a long time).

Why would he even say that? Typical tacky self-promotion, plus it would seem just plain idiotic to say you just sent 5 grand to a buddy when you owe untold thousands to charities. I guess that must have been before all that info came out?

His reputation still seemed very high at that point. I had never even heard of any of the liberties he took with other people's money at that point. Heck, one of the main reasons I even went ahead with buying from him was because so many people seemed to hold him in such high regard. What an idiot I was.

 

[cmryan821]

In September 2008, I don't think there was any hint that the raffles were owed money ("underfunded" / "stolen from") or that requested refunds were not being paid in a timely fashion. It is an odd situation, though - I've always wondered what reason was ever given (if any) for why the "buddy" never shipped the speakers.

Mls told me that his friend's divorce caused "a huge problem for himself" and that he(MLS) should have never gotten in the middle of it. Doesn't exactly say what happened though. I guess he wanted my imagination to fill in the blanks. MLS also told me that he "did try to buy more Ref 3's from Mr. Pu but was unable to do so." This in spite of the fact that they can be bought from authorized dealers in North America.

 

[Chu Gai]

In September 2008, I don't think there was any hint that the raffles were owed money ("underfunded" / "stolen from") or that requested refunds were not being paid in a timely fashion. It is an odd situation, though - I've always wondered what reason was ever given (if any) for why the "buddy" never shipped the speakers.

I didn't see any reasons. Swept under the table, then the amps fall apart followed by the forum. The only buddies he's got are that handful out of ~10,000 registered members that are posting over there every now and then. There were no speakers.

I came to that conclusion at some point this past year(man this whole thing has been going on a long time).

Yes it has, but keep trying.

His reputation still seemed very high at that point. I had never even heard of any of the liberties he took with other people's money at that point. Heck, one of the main reasons I even went ahead with buying from him was because so many people seemed to hold him in such high regard. What an idiot I was.

If it'll make you feel any better there were lots of people in the same boat. Just keep plugging away consistently. Too bad there's not a forum member who lives in the Longmont area that was sympathetic. He could discount things and clean up by going to small claims. He'd be a friggin' hero!

Mls told me that his friend's divorce caused "a huge problem for himself" and that he(MLS) should have never gotten in the middle of it. Doesn't exactly say what happened though. I guess he wanted my imagination to fill in the blanks. MLS also told me that he "did try to buy more Ref 3's from Mr. Pu but was unable to do so." This in spite of the fact that they can be bought from authorized dealers in North America.

Gee, he better hope he doesn't get sued for divorce! He can't buy them from Mr. Pu for a simple reason. He owes him money too.

 

[cschang]

In September 2008, I don't think there was any hint that the raffles were owed money ("underfunded" / "stolen from") or that requested refunds were not being paid in a timely fashion.

It wasn't public, but I knew of the Sloan/Kettering issue.

edit: Actually...now that I think about, at that time I believed MLS had made the full payment instead of the "underfunding".

 

[Chu Gai]

A plausible Explanation for the LS delay

Dear soon to be LS6/LS9 owners:

I extend my deepest apologies for having missed the January 4, 2010 deadline for your speakers...

Over the holidays two devastating things happened...We were met with a MAJOR power outage...

Even with that, we were still on schedule...Cabinets from Lucid were on their way...Beautiful veneer...my wife was verklempt...the Longmont pot hole crew were providing asphalt to line the insides...everything was in place...

Then...

Our beautiful cabinets were missing in transit...

The driver transporting the cabinets said he saw a light and the next thing he remembesr was that it was 2 hours later...

He pulled over and checked the back and found the cabinets gone...State police arrived, investigated, and are quite sure this is the result of aliens...I thought he meant undocumented immigrants, but he said, "No, this is aliens possibly from the planet Zebulon."

He showed me this article and believes they'll locate the cabinets in a cow field after the snow has melted....

The AV123 family extends its deepest apologies and expects to definitely have your speakers ready by January 4, 2011....

Thank you...

The av123 Team

 

[Jed M]

I really had no idea the raffle money wasn't going to the charities until last February. I knew Mark was facing financial issues due to Cali, but I didn't have an inkling of the raffles until 2/15/09 when a trusted forum member PM'ed me about a post I had made. He filled me in on what he knew, which at the time was very limited compared to what we know now, but as you can see by my entire response (I edited three parts where it would reveal his identity) I was shocked and disgusted. For context, the forums has just closed a couple weeks prior so the heat was really starting to ignite over AV123's lack of customer service and back orders/refunds. You can see I was still having a hard time believing it at the time. Its amazing how fast it has unraveled.

My 2/15/09 PM response to the trusted forum member who first filled me in:

Wow, if that is true ****** it saddens me to no end. If true, what he is doing is reprehensible and disgusting. It is beyond comprehension that somebody like Mark would do that. I would be stunned. Its one thing to not have the money to pay off debts, and I get that and have been staying out of the piling on because I know the tremendous stress Mark must be under, but it is another thing to have the money on hand and not send it off to the charity or person, we as a community, were going to send it to. Stealing from the sick, needy and poor is disgusting. Please tell me that is not true. It is Bernie Maddoff type stuff.

I have hit cancel on so many posts these last few weeks out of my sincere respect and sadness for the position Mark is in. It is easy to pile on right now because he has done some really bad things but I have held my tongue out of respect to the man I thought I knew. This man is a first rate con man if he has been keeping the raffle money. You know, its funny, every time you see these 60 Minutes or something doing a feature on a con man there is always two groups of people who talk about him. The ones who loved him and talked about his great generosity and gregarious personality, and the other group that talked about how much money they lost with him. Could Mark truly be this two sided criminal? I hope not, but if he really is stealing the raffle money it changes everything I ever thought about the man. Lower than low in my book.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Hope you are doing well *****, but I'm becoming convinced we won't have the AV123 forum to hang around at anymore. [redacted] . Take care my friend and I will see you around.
Jed

 

[gonk]

His reputation still seemed very high at that point. I had never even heard of any of the liberties he took with other people's money at that point. Heck, one of the main reasons I even went ahead with buying from him was because so many people seemed to hold him in such high regard. What an idiot I was.

That's exactly why it is so hard to blame people who got sucked in. There were so many sources that described Mark as such a "stand-up guy" that doing business with him personally (even in cases where it was fairly easy to separate business with him from business with AV123) would seem reasonable. Your case was particularly clear-cut: speakers in California, available for sale. Why should the sale have been any less safe than any other sale through the forum's classified section? If anything, it should be more safe. And yet you got stiffed. If this buddy existed, he should have been called upon to either ship speakers or provide refund because it was his failure to ship a pair of speakers that messed things up.

 

[Chu Gai]

Absolutely gonk, and to that you add all the positive reviews of the company and the person by what constitutes the audio press ranging from Affordable Audio to Stereophile. Taken in concert, it's a ringing endorsement of MLS and VA321. Myself, I remember hearing about the raffles way back when but I never thought to ask myself if even running the raffles was legal. Even if I had, I might well have thought to myself that a person who is so much in the public eye would never think to abscond with the funds. I thought at the time he was looking to do two things: do some good and create additional good will for himself and his company. So, while his motivations may not have been entirely altruistic, it didn't concern me. Hindsight has shown me that I was wrong to an extent I didn't believe possible. And even to this day as new matters become uncovered, many which have not all been shared publicly, they beg comparison to Jekyll and Hyde.

 

[Chu Gai]

How do you like this for an update when somebody asked about what's happening with their new sub (provided the driver passes testing and all that good stuff)?

 

[cmryan821]

If this buddy existed, he should have been called upon to either ship speakers or provide refund because it was his failure to ship a pair of speakers that messed things up.

At this point I'd be shocked if the friend was real. MLS never gave an actual name(just initials) and he sold ref 3's to another person through the same thread.

 

[Chu Gai]

Well, if the friend was real, and all those things that belonged to the friend were real, then the person who bought the Ref 3's must've had them shipped from California, right? So must everyone else too. Any way for you to contact them to see if they remember where the goods came from?