Oppo BDP-83SE / BDP-83 Blu-ray Analog Audio Measurement Supplemental

[admin]

When Oppo announced a hot rod version of their highly regarded BDP-83 Blu-ray player, it piqued our interest. Considering the stock player demonstrated stellar audio and video performance via the HDMI outputs and respectable analog audio performance, we figured it would simply be icing on the cake for Oppo to offer a supped up version and evidently they agreed, hence the BDP-83SE was born. As we began our exhaustive analog audio measurement process, we discovered some operational and performance issues on both players which are noted in this report. Fellow Oppo users fear NOT as we have made Oppo fully aware of these issues and they are working on solutions as you read this article.

Discuss "Oppo BDP-83SE / BDP-83 Blu-ray Analog Audio Measurement Supplemental" here. Read the article.

 

[Adam]

Thanks for the great article, Gene.

 

[nibhaz]

They'll make it right!

"If you experience distortion via the subwoofer output when playing DolbyTrueHD or DTS HD source material, set all speakers to “large” and utilize an external bass management solution (ie. A/V receiver, external crossover system, etc)."

I find this point most disconcerting since the whole point of the SE upgrade is improved analog performance. Especially since the work around requires BM in the analog realm, which most receivers are incapable of performing.

But as the article has already pointed out, Oppo is a company that stands behind their product and I am positive they will solve this problem in very timely manner. In fact, I don’t know if there is any other CE company that I would trust more in regards to customer service.

Thanks Gene! I’ll be looking forward to your follow up once the issues are resolved!

 

[VladP]

I wonder why the measurements for the regular BDP differ markedly from the measurements presented in the hometheaterhifi review
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/2009/june-2009/oppo-bdp-83/oppo-bdp-83-blu-ray-player-fr-cd-dvd-a-sacd-analog-output-large.gif

In their measurements, there were NO unusual peaks for DVD-AUDIO 24/192, only very slight peak of 0.5 db. No peaks with HDMI.

So which measurements are correct and why are the differences?

Also, were these measurements only for analog out or HDMI out?

 

[gene]

I wonder why the measurements for the regular BDP differ markedly from the measurements presented in the hometheaterhifi review
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/image...tput-large.gif

In their measurements, there were NO unusual peaks for DVD-AUDIO 24/192, only very slight peak of 0.5 db. No peaks with HDMI.

So which measurements are correct and why are the differences?

Also, were these measurements only for analog out or HDMI out?

As the article clearly states both in the page title and content, these were analog measurements. You can NOT measure analog audio via HDMI.

There are several possible reasons why their graph doesn't agree with mine:

• they set their speakers all to small. You can't tell since their graph cuts off at 200Hz
• they set only some speakers to "Large". Maybe this only occurs with all speakers set to large.
• they tested an older firmware player. My player had the latest firmware update.

It's hard to discern anything from that graph considering they didn't document their test conditions and they only tested 1 channel. Oppo has already confirmed all of my findings and working on a solution.

 

[VladP]

As the article clearly states both in the page title and content, these were analog measurements. You can NOT measure analog audio via HDMI.

There are several possible reasons why their graph doesn't agree with mine:

• they set their speakers all to small. You can't tell since their graph cuts off at 200Hz
• they set only some speakers to "Large". Maybe this only occurs with all speakers set to large.
• they tested an older firmware player. My player had the latest firmware update.

It's hard to discern anything from that graph considering they didn't document their test conditions and they only tested 1 channel. Oppo has already confirmed all of my findings and working on a solution.

Thank you.

 

[DaleAV]

I can not help and wonder if a 'fix' can be adequately implemented with only firmware. Surely, some analog circuitry that is peripheral to the new DAC may well have some effect?

 

[j_garcia]

I just got my RMA to take mine in. Is this issue a big enough one that I should consider holding off? Anyone tested the updated firmware and confirm that it fixed the issue or not?

 

[DaleAV]

I just got my RMA to take mine in. Is this issue a big enough one that I should consider holding off? Anyone tested the updated firmware and confirm that it fixed the issue or not?

I don't think this 'problem' will have an immediate effect for most of us. I just got my RMA today and sent my base 83 off for the SE upgrade, with only a slight hesitation.
I guess the real test is in hearing and whether you hear anything you don't like (beyond what you hear you do like better). So far that does not seem to be the case, but very few reviews to go by at this point.
When it comes to CE I've read sufficient reviews of equipment that to the reviewer's surprise had less than ideal measurements, but in no way dampened the performance as perceived by the senses.
I am not totally informed on what system conditions have to be set up to bring out these anomalies.
But if Oppo keeps their usual open mind, and digs into this a bit we may facing even more improvements in the future, as they review their results.

Oh, well, I usually see the glass half full..most cases it's paid off.

 

[j_garcia]

I emailed them with my concern and they assured me that the latest firmware does correct this "issue" and that all SEs are shipping with that firmware. I will be dropping mine off tomorrow; should have it back by the end of the week.

My first thought when I saw Gene's comments was "Is it AUDIBLE" though? The ability to measure an annomaly such as this does not necessarilly mean it will affect what you hear in the end, whether that would be expected or not.

 

[DaleAV]

I emailed them with my concern and they assured me that the latest firmware does correct this "issue" and that all SEs are shipping with that firmware. I will be dropping mine off tomorrow; should have it back by the end of the week.

My first thought when I saw Gene's comments was "Is it AUDIBLE" though? The ability to measure an annomaly such as this does not necessarilly mean it will affect what you hear in the end, whether that would be expected or not.

Damn, those guys are fast! It's amazing they have time to do their 'normal' jobs.
There is probably a lot of equipment out there that gets reviewed without any technical analysis. Some very fine equipment at that.
Most testing is to confirm the mfg specs anyway, not to find things that work differently under specific conditions. But as we know, one can stumble onto those too.

 

[DaleAV]

I live about 180 miles form Oppo Digital. UPS picked up my pkg. from the UPS store at 5pm last night. Oppo received it at 9:46 this morning!!!
This is good stuff!!

 

[j_garcia]

Just dropped mine off. He said they are turning them around pretty quick now.

 

[DaleAV]

Just dropped mine off. He said they are turning them around pretty quick now.

We are going to the San Jose Auto Show in early Jan. Thought I would arrange something with Oppo around that time, but since the deadline is 12/31 that's not going to happen. Oh, well..be nice to get it back sooner than that!

I read over on AVS a guy dropping his off on a Friday morning, and picking it up Monday afternoon. I imagine the paperwork takes as long as doing the mod.

 

[j_garcia]

There was another guy there picking his up, and there were 5 more sitting there waiting to be picked up also.

 

[j_garcia]

Holy crap! These guys ARE fast. I dropped it off at lunch and they just called and said it was ready already. Just 3 hrs!!!! Will report back once I have time to give it a listen, which will hopefully be tonight.

 

[j_garcia]

Initial reaction is positive. I definitely notice the improvement on the few things I was able to test. There is much more of that "you are there" with the upgrade and I do notice more detail everywhere; the surrounds in particular. The 83 had a very wide soundstage before and now it just feels a bit more three dimensional. I haven't tried any SACDs or DVD-As because I had other things going on this evening, but I am very pleased so far.

 

[Alex2507]

I definitely notice the improvement on the few things I was able to test.

This is gonna drive Supervig nuts.

I feel better about buying a BD60 on account of your positive experience with the upgrade. I figure that $110 taken away from a $900 player is not nearly as big a sin as taking $110 away from a $500 player. That make any sense?

 

[supervij]

Ya got that right, Alex! Arrggghhhh!!!!! C'mon, John -- tell us more tell us more tell us more now now now!!!

(Just kidding, John. You're one of my a/v gurus, and I appreciate all the advice, suggestions and reviews you've offered over the years. That's not to say I won't be checking back every half hour or so to read any new observations you have for the 83SE! )

Although, frankly, I really like the sound of the 83. I think there's a lot of depth and detail to its sound already. (But then again, the only other gear I've had was an old Pioneer 588a. The Oppo 83 is several HUGE steps ahead of that.) I was listening to some Tori Amos last night and when the song "Me and a Gun" came on (an acapella song) I noticed some real emotion and nuances in her voice that I had never noticed before. I'm pretty happy with the 83 just as it is. Still, to make it even better . . . drool . . .

John, you say that you noticed more detail in the surrounds. May I ask which movie/TV show you were watching/listening to when you noticed this? Or was this a CD with some surround processing?

I'm really looking forward to hearing more of what you think for CDs, DVD-As and SACDs!

Looks like the upgrade option is on the table for only two more weeks. And although they told me "In December, we may expand this program to Canadian." I have a feeling we Canucks are gonna be outta luck. Sigh.

cheers,
supervij

 

[j_garcia]

I tried a few music tracks in TrueHD - a few on the Oppo supplied AIX disc (this was the first thing I tried) and I could immediately hear the additional clarity in the vocals and a noticeable improvement in spaciousness overall. My favorite is the "on the stage" mix of Primavera. It was impressive originally, but it has that extra layer of sweetness to it now. Vocals are incredibly clear and the flute sounds like you were playing it yourself. It is kind of hard to describe, but the difference is very easy to hear.

Next were a few tracks on NIN Beside You In Time (TrueHD). A disc I am very familiar with. At first it wasn't quite so obvious on this one as it is already a great recording with a ton of detail, but when I cranked it up to very elevated levels, the additional clarity in every channel is pretty amazing. I do notice a tiny bit of what sounded like more harshness at the top vs the standard 83, however this was at levels that I am highly unlikely to ever listen at, and I saw the show live and it was pretty harsh.

Next was House of Flying Daggers - Uncompressed PCM - "Echo Game" and the scene with the beaded room shortly after it. Echo game sounded extremely clear, but not strikingly improved, however when they are walking through the beads and he drags his sword through them, it is so clear it sounds like you are in the room with them. I could actually hear them breathing, something I don't think I noticed previously. That was some wow factor for me.

I also tried a few scenes from Ratatoullie Uncompressed PCM and Ghost in the Shell 2.0 with the new 7.1 DTS-ES Discrete track. Both sounded excellent.

Are we talking about the remastered "Me and a Gun"? That one is pretty amazing. I will give that one a shot. No surround modes will be active though