Black Max Speakers?

Shintsu

Shintsu

Banned
Okay, so I recently found a pair of Black Max speakers for sale. Now I'm not much on vintage stuff (In fact, I don't know much of diddly about it), but I have heard other audiophiles at least locally speak positively of Black Max. I believe they were a hand-built speaker company based out of - I want to say Lexington, KY? Somewhere in KY, I know that much. They supposedly built them in their garage and hand tested each one, this left as far as I know a small amount of their speakers in existance (Can't even give a ballpark number, but being a pair of brothers I can't imagine them have making a huge mass of them - probably 1,000 pairs at most). Anyway, the internet is a helpless void for info on these things. Nothing in Audio Review, nothing on Audiogon, none on eBay, Google searches just pull up stuff like black speaker mounts and completely different speakers that happen to be black.

While I'm not looking to buy a pair of big floorstanding speakers for my main system, I am interested to know if they're of any real value or if they're equated to some old outdated junk. If they're something special, I might pick them up to use with a vintage build I'm considering just for fun. Is this rare/classic equipment or just old equipment? The only photo I have is from the ad which I post here for your assessment:


The people I know who spoke well of them are picky audiophiles (They don't use anything "cheap" in their systems). I'd be afraid to pay the price if they aren't any good, but again I just don't know enough and lack more info. All I know is they are rated at 200 watts. Anyone else help me out here?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Okay, so I recently found a pair of Black Max speakers for sale. Now I'm not much on vintage stuff (In fact, I don't know much of diddly about it), but I have heard other audiophiles at least locally speak positively of Black Max. I believe they were a hand-built speaker company based out of - I want to say Lexington, KY? Somewhere in KY, I know that much. They supposedly built them in their garage and hand tested each one, this left as far as I know a small amount of their speakers in existance (Can't even give a ballpark number, but being a pair of brothers I can't imagine them have making a huge mass of them - probably 1,000 pairs at most). Anyway, the internet is a helpless void for info on these things. Nothing in Audio Review, nothing on Audiogon, none on eBay, Google searches just pull up stuff like black speaker mounts and completely different speakers that happen to be black.

While I'm not looking to buy a pair of big floorstanding speakers for my main system, I am interested to know if they're of any real value or if they're equated to some old outdated junk. If they're something special, I might pick them up to use with a vintage build I'm considering just for fun. Is this rare/classic equipment or just old equipment? The only photo I have is from the ad which I post here for your assessment:


The people I know who spoke well of them are picky audiophiles (They don't use anything "cheap" in their systems). I'd be afraid to pay the price if they aren't any good, but again I just don't know enough and lack more info. All I know is they are rated at 200 watts. Anyone else help me out here?
Junk, junk and junk!
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
They look like they're junk. The oversized front baffle would be a pretty good indication that these guy's had no concept of how to properly build speakers. It pretty much looks like a piezo tweeter (cheap) a paper mid-range (cheap) and a paper woofer with a stamped basket(cheap, think your everyday variety Pioneer and Kenwood speaker only in a worse configuration). I'm not sure what that square shaped thing is between the woofer and the midrange, but I'm sure what-ever it is that it's not helping very much.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
I don't know how anyone can possably tell that the woofer is stamped or cast based on that picture.

It is true though that the mainstream speakers that your photo resembles were not very good. Do you know what they weigh? A well-braced speaker that size should be *very* heavy. Have you listened to them?

Obviously the proof is in the measureing: but if you pop out the drivers, you could get some idea of part quality. As mentioned weight (better, a look inside) will tell you how much attempt was made to avoid resonance. I don't know a short "what to look for in a good crossover", but that should be a pretty important / expensive part on a 4-way.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I don't know how anyone can possably tell that the woofer is stamped or cast based on that picture.
I can tell from having seen many crappy speakers in my time, also the pixels.;):D
 
Shintsu

Shintsu

Banned
I don't know how anyone can possably tell that the woofer is stamped or cast based on that picture.

It is true though that the mainstream speakers that your photo resembles were not very good. Do you know what they weigh? A well-braced speaker that size should be *very* heavy. Have you listened to them?

Obviously the proof is in the measureing: but if you pop out the drivers, you could get some idea of part quality. As mentioned weight (better, a look inside) will tell you how much attempt was made to avoid resonance. I don't know a short "what to look for in a good crossover", but that should be a pretty important / expensive part on a 4-way.
Again, I'm not too knowledgable on these old things so I have no idea. The people who knew them said they were heavy speakers but that's not accurate for any real estimation of their actual weight.

So if I can ask, I know there are some old 70's speakers that are IMO still pretty generic looking (Big rectangle with some cheap looking drivers) that people really like - what makes those speakers better? I can't cite an example or anything - I'm not a vintage speaker person, but I know there are ones that exist like I'm talking about. It's not Cerwin Vegas, I know people like them for the boominess it's something else.

Oh well, it was worth asking anyway. It didn't look as horrible as most of the old Fishers I see posted regularly so I wasn't sure - plus the rep it had from other people I know who had listened to them in person (Albeit many years ago).
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Again, I'm not too knowledgable on these old things so I have no idea. The people who knew them said they were heavy speakers but that's not accurate for any real estimation of their actual weight.

So if I can ask, I know there are some old 70's speakers that are IMO still pretty generic looking (Big rectangle with some cheap looking drivers) that people really like - what makes those speakers better? I can't cite an example or anything - I'm not a vintage speaker person, but I know there are ones that exist like I'm talking about. It's not Cerwin Vegas, I know people like them for the boominess it's something else.

Oh well, it was worth asking anyway. It didn't look as horrible as most of the old Fishers I see posted regularly so I wasn't sure - plus the rep it had from other people I know who had listened to them in person (Albeit many years ago).
Who said they were better? These speakers as a group had miss tuned boomy bass, Squarky mids, and dreadful HF. That speaker has a $2.00 Piezo tweeter, that is not even a high fidelity unit!

In the UK in the sixties and seventies American speakers were largely the butt of jokes at meetings and conventions, and for all I know still are.

Back then the only speaker that garnered any real respect was this one.

With AR garnering some recognition.

If you are looking for an accurate speaker, I can tell you those Black Max will be about as far removed as you can get.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Who said they were better? These speakers as a group had miss tuned boomy bass, Squarky mids, and dreadful HF. That speaker has a $2.00 Piezo tweeter, that is not even a high fidelity unit!

In the UK in the sixties and seventies American speakers were largely the butt of jokes at meetings and conventions, and for all I know still are.

Back then the only speaker that garnered any real respect was this one.

With AR garnering some recognition.

If you are looking for an accurate speaker, I can tell you those Black Max will be about as far removed as you can get.
AR didn't just garner recognition, they redefined the way speakers are made. Every company that Henry Kloss was behind reigned surpreme, and by a large margin in the 70's and 80's. Every company he left stooped down hill after his departure of course. AR was the largest speaker manufacturer in the US when Kloss was in it, KLH was the largest and biggest seller when Kloss was running it (AR trailing not far behind) and Advent was a real budget killer. They actually probably did almost as well with Jensen behind them (in terms of sales, not quality).

Many boxes that had JBL, AR, Advent, Klipsch, & KLH on them back in that period where well regarded. Many of them still are, and there are many collectors out there to prove it. Most Japanese speakers from this era (Pioneer, Sansui, Kenwood, Sony) where absolute garbage compared to the top European and American speakers. I cruel joke of speakers coming from the islands.:cool:
 
Shintsu

Shintsu

Banned
Most Japanese speakers from this era (Pioneer, Sansui, Kenwood, Sony) where absolute garbage compared to the top European and American speakers. I cruel joke of speakers coming from the islands.:cool:
This, I have heard many old school audiophiles I know of speak about how no one wanted any Japanese speakers and some of them still don't hold much regard for them today. I can't help but feel I'm slightly tilted that way as well, but I've heard some nice sounding Yamaha bookshelf speakers. For top quality though, I have to be honest I don't really think about Japanese speakers. It's funny that for speakers, most people look at American made, British made, or Canadian made and for most components you're looking at Japanese made equipment (At least everything I own is Japanese - Denon and Technics gear). Right now when I think of American made components (esoteric stuff) all that's popping in my head is Carver and Conrad Johnson. Huh, regardless it seems anyone can make high quality components (except China, but what's new eh?).
 
A

andyville99

Audiophyte
I actually have Black Max speakers - still....

I just happened to run across this post regarding Black Max speakers and got a big chuckle out of all the opinions that Black Max speakers are junk - from I suppose, individuals forming their expert opinions just from a photograph.

When I got my first good-paying summer job during college, my objective was to buy the best stereo system I could find at the end of the summer. At the time I lived in Lexington KY. After doing all the research I could (this was before the internet - 1978) and hitting every store in Lexington, I drove to Louisville and spent the day scouring every audio store in town. I happened across a place called Macdonald's Sound Goods, which seemed to have the best selection of high-end gear at the time. I had previously thought I had settled on a brand of speakers which I felt were the nirvana of speakers at the time - can't remember which brand it was now. BUT, I had made up my mind that I was going to buy the BEST-SOUNDING speakers I could find, regardless of brand.

This store (for the time) had an awesome listening room with about 15 pairs of high-end speakers set up so one could easily switch back and forth to easily compare, in an equal environment. Two of the pairs of speakers were Black Max speakers - the B30 and the B50. The ones in the photo in this thread are the B30's - they were the shorter of the two. The B50's were the top of the Black Max line and were about a foot taller than the 30's.

After about two hours of constant comparison, it was clear to me that the B50's had the smoothest, most balanced sound of anything that store (or any other store I had visited) had to offer. I was told by the sales staff that Black Max's were manufactured in Louisville - not that I cared. Nonetheless, the Black Max B50's were my ultimate choice, despite that fact that they cost more than I hoped to spend. But I wanted what sounded best.

So, that was 1978. Here it is 2011, and guess what speakers have NEVER gotten knocked out of my house - yep, my Black Max B50's. They sound as good today as they did they day I brought them home. And they've been moved back and forth to college dorms several times, then to several houses in Dayton, then several houses in Louisville, then to NC, and now back to Ohio. And, they weigh a ton. I've gone through several receivers, and actually have another pair of large speakers that I had for a different room in the house at one time. But nothing has ever compared sound-wise to my Black Max's.

And, since I'm a guitarist and a bass player, I've played them REALLY loud to play along with for long periods of time for let's see, 33 years.

So, for all you experts who on sight claim that they're junk, my experience would lead me to believe that's not quite the case. Many times I've gone to audio stores to check out the latest speakers, wondering if I'd find something to leapfrog them, but in 33 years have NOT.

I do remember that the B50's sounded better than the B30's (in the photo) - but the B30's weren't bad. I remember their primary selling point was that they had a perfectly flat response across the entire frequency range - no boominess and no tinniness - just a very smooth and rich sound that I've never gotten tired of to this day... And they have a rear-firing mid-range and a rear-firing tuned bass port that really seem to make a big difference in the width of the sound compared to all the other speakers that sounded boxy, comparatively.

Just thought I'd share the opinion of someone who actually has the brand compared to those who can judge quality from a photo... If something that sounds this good and has lasted for 33 years is junk, let me know what else compares...

Thanks...
 
T

tom67

Full Audioholic
We have an actual user here......guess that counts for more than all the other replies which were mere speculation......these things may be worth 1,000s.....
 
just-some-guy

just-some-guy

Audioholic Field Marshall
andy

build up your post count. then post pics, for the internet database.
i did this when i found just how rare my ALTEC LANSING model 100 & 66 are.
 
A

andyville99

Audiophyte
Just joined today - how many posts are required to be able to post pics?
 
A

andyville99

Audiophyte
So, i'm home alone tonight, so I went downstairs and cranked up my 33 year old Black Max B50's to 11 (yeah, those pieces of junk according to several of you) just to give them a really critical listen.

Man, for pieces of junk they still sound awfully good - crisp highs, tight mids, and rich, full lows without being boomy. Guess I'll continue to stick with my old pieces of junk for now.

If anybody has any recommendations that they think might entice me to throw these out to the curb, please let me know....

Thanks!
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Yeah....... trolling isn't going to get you anywhere.

It hurts your credibility if you care.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I'm trying to figure out the drivers on the 30. What is just above the woofer?
What is the complement of drivers in your 50?
 
A

andyville99

Audiophyte
Yeah....... trolling isn't going to get you anywhere.

It hurts your credibility if you care.
Are you talking to me?? Not sure what you mean about trolling...

I just joined after seeing this thread about Black Max's. And from what I've seen from several posts just on this thread, most notably YOURS, credibility isn't something that it appears you would know much about.

Get over yourself... Overlord???? sheeeesh!
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
andyville99 said:
Are you talking to me??
Yes.

Not sure what you mean about trolling...

I'm refering to you repeating over and over again that your "pieces of junk" sound great. That's trolling, that entire post was just a troll lure. I guess it worked just dandy Andy.

And from what I've seen from several posts just on this thread, most notably YOURS, credibility isn't something that it appears you would know much about.
I don't claim to be an expert on these speakers, I was just offering my opinion based on limited evidence.

Get over yourself...
There is nothing for me to get over.

Overlord???? sheeeesh!
Users don't choose their titles.
 
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