Energy Savings Scam - Must Read!

[gene]

Energy Savings Scam: I just had a company come over my house claiming they could assess our energy usage so we can get a $4k rebate from the Government. It was nothing more than a sales pitch to buy solar water heating and attic cooling. He tried to convince us on buying their system which was over $12k and with all the Govt incentives and cost savings it would pay for itself in 3 years based on our energy savings and the projection that power would go up 15% / year in cost.

I realized what a scam it was when they tried to sell me Power Factor correction for my home. I gave the guy a little schooling on basic electrical engineering and how these devices make little sense in the home.

I told him the power company bills residential for actual power used (kwh) not on reactive power. I also pointed him to the Energy Star website that discusses this and how if these devices were so useful for residential applications, how come they aren't certified?

http://energystar.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/energystar.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=4941

and read this:

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/powerfactor.html

Watch out for this scam. It was very hard to get this guy out of my house. I was on the verge of physically dragging him out if he didn't leave after my warning that I grew tired of his presence and wanted him to leave.

 

[bandphan]

I bet it was this guy

 

[Martiad3]

I bet it was this guy

So that's how he knows so much about global warming.

 

[majorloser]

There was actually studies done by the UF and UCF on the benefits of attic ventilation vs. additional insulation. They found that it really doesn't matter how hot your attic is if you have the ceiling properly insulated. Even solar powered attic fans do not even come close to good insulation. Attic ventilation was only able to lower cooling energy consumption 5% or less in a conventionally insulated home in Central Florida and 6% if the home had a radiant barrier installed.

So considering the cost of these systems and the added concerns for hurricane areas like here, it's not a huge savings when compared to adding additional insulation to the attic.

I can't find the link to the UF study, but these are a good start:

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications/html/FSEC-GP-171-00/
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications/pdf/FSEC-CR-1496-05.pdf

 

[highfigh]

I bet it was this guy

How many carbon credits did he use on that blast?

 

[highfigh]

There was actually studies done by the UF and UCF on the benefits of attic ventilation vs. additional insulation. They found that it really doesn't matter how hot your attic is if you have the ceiling properly insulated. Even solar powered attic fans do not even come close to good insulation. Attic ventilation was only able to lower cooling energy consumption 5% or less in a conventionally insulated home in Central Florida and 6% if the home had a radiant barrier installed.

So considering the cost of these systems and the added concerns for hurricane areas like here, it's not a huge savings when compared to adding additional insulation to the attic.

I can't find the link to the UF study, but these are a good start:

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications/html/FSEC-GP-171-00/
http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications/pdf/FSEC-CR-1496-05.pdf

True, but if the temperature difference between the attic and living space isn't extreme, the temperature of the living space won't increase as much, so attic ventilation is still a good idea. Also, whatever is on the roof (shingles, asphalt paper and materials like those) will last a lot longer.

 

[highfigh]

Energy Savings Scam: I just had a company come over my house claiming they could assess our energy usage so we can get a $4k rebate from the Government. It was nothing more than a sales pitch to buy solar water heating and attic cooling. He tried to convince us on buying their system which was over $12k and with all the Govt incentives and cost savings it would pay for itself in 3 years based on our energy savings and the projection that power would go up 15% / year in cost.

I realized what a scam it was when they tried to sell me Power Factor correction for my home. I gave the guy a little schooling on basic electrical engineering and how these devices make little sense in the home.

I told him the power company bills residential for actual power used (kwh) not on reactive power. I also pointed him to the Energy Star website that discusses this and how if these devices were so useful for residential applications, how come they aren't certified?

http://energystar.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/energystar.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=4941

and read this:

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/powerfactor.html

Watch out for this scam. It was very hard to get this guy out of my house. I was on the verge of physically dragging him out if he didn't leave after my warning that I grew tired of his presence and wanted him to leave.

You could have threatened to call the cops. Or, just act really weird. Most people don't like being around weird.

"Better weird than boring".

 

[gene]

You could have threatened to call the cops. Or, just act really weird. Most people don't like being around weird.

I usually do that on the phone, I can get quite vulgar with salespeople to the point where they never call again. But my 2 yr old was there so I had to keep my cool

 

[gene]

They guy wanted $12k just for the solar water heater. By the 3rd time I said no, he got that price down like 4k off plus tried to convince me that our power bill will go up 15% / year b/c of the oil shortage and increase demand so it would pay for itself in 3 years especially since the Govt would give me a $4k rebate for installing energy efficient heating. When I told him I wanted to verify his facts he got very defensive quoting articles he brought, etc. He then said the Marriot uses their system could they be wrong? My response was Disney, Universal Studios, GM etc all use Bose and yes I believe they are very wrong

 

[MidnightSensi]

I never let door to door sales people in.

There was actually studies done by the UF and UCF on the benefits of attic ventilation vs. additional insulation. They found that it really doesn't matter how hot your attic is if you have the ceiling properly insulated. Even solar powered attic fans do not even come close to good insulation. Attic ventilation was only able to lower cooling energy consumption 5% or less in a conventionally insulated home in Central Florida and 6% if the home had a radiant barrier installed.

I'm sure insulation is the most important, but 5-6% is a fair amount. Not sure how long that takes to repay though, since solar panels are fairly pricey.

 

[Seth=L]

They guy wanted $12k just for the solar water heater. By the 3rd time I said no, he got that price down like 4k off plus tried to convince me that our power bill will go up 15% / year b/c of the oil shortage and increase demand so it would pay for itself in 3 years especially since the Govt would give me a $4k rebate for installing energy efficient heating. When I told him I wanted to verify his facts he got very defensive quoting articles he brought, etc. He then said the Marriot uses their system could they be wrong? My response was Disney, Universal Studios, GM etc all use Bose and yes I believe they are very wrong

I'm surprised you didn't drag him out, you should have. Of course you'd have to post the video to youtube so we could all get a laugh.

 

[majorloser]

I never let door to door sales people in.



I'm sure insulation is the most important, but 5-6% is a fair amount. Not sure how long that takes to repay though, since solar panels are fairly pricey.

My neighbors just spent $3,600 to have two solar powered attic vent fans installed. According to the studies, getting 5-6% was the extreme savings. On a newer home you probably won't even see half that amount. So considering the actual power consumption part of our FPL bill is usually around half the total bill, it would take a very long time to recoup the savings. You'd see a far quicker payback if you spent the money on better insulation, high efficiency windows or a higher SEER air conditioning unit.

I want my roof covered with the tiles used on the space shuttle. Then I won't need to worry about keeping the radiant heat out.

 

[gene]

My neighbors just spent $3,600 to have two solar powered attic vent fans installed

Man he got ripped off. The guy wanted to charge me around $2k to do 3 solar attic fans. After researching how weak the motors are, I questioned whether they would even generate enough air flow to make a difference.

I had my house double insulated (> R39) a year after I bought it just as a precaution and I already run 16 SEER Trane air conditioning which was a costly upgrade but my power bill is significantly less than most of my neighbors whose houses are 1k less sq feet than mine and don't run home theaters all day long like I do

 

[majorloser]

It's a local company that custom builds the units. Supposed to be larger motors, larger solar panels and blah, blah, blah. Waste of money.

The only thing I screwed up when I had this house built was spec'ing high efficiency windows. But I'm thinking about taking advantage of some tax credits:

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=tax_credits.tx_index

 

[highfigh]

My neighbors just spent $3,600 to have two solar powered attic vent fans installed. According to the studies, getting 5-6% was the extreme savings. On a newer home you probably won't even see half that amount. So considering the actual power consumption part of our FPL bill is usually around half the total bill, it would take a very long time to recoup the savings. You'd see a far quicker payback if you spent the money on better insulation, high efficiency windows or a higher SEER air conditioning unit.

I want my roof covered with the tiles used on the space shuttle. Then I won't need to worry about keeping the radiant heat out.

How big is their attic, how much air do the fans move and why did it cost so much? Do they have a tile roof?

Home Depot sells a solar powered fan for less than $200.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... it would pay for itself in 3 years based on our energy savings and the projection that power would go up 15% / year in cost.

....

Did you ask where that 15% came from and what was the actual cost increases over say the past 20 years

Lets say your cost is $9k after the tax credits, etc. That would mean a savings of $3k per year. Is your gas and electricity that much now per year? And, your bill includes usage not related to water heating and cooling
One is lucky to get a payback in 30 years perhaps.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

I want my roof covered with the tiles used on the space shuttle. Then I won't need to worry about keeping the radiant heat out.

If you want the radiant heat out, place a mirror like surface up there

WOW, that $3600 will never be recouped.