Vinyl Educate Me Please

[bigaudiofanatic]

So after looking at two records that I bought 2 years ago. I finally want to get my feet wet with records and turntables. The only problem is I have no idea where to begin nor what to get. I need some guidance from my fellow polkies. What do I need to look for when buying vinyl? What is a good starter turntable? Why do I want to listen to vinyl? well that one might be answered because i want to play around with it.

 

[MidnightSensi]

What do I need to look for when buying vinyl?

Make sure its in good condition (not warped, scratched/etched).

Also if you buy online, watch the shipping costs. Vinyl is heavy, fragile and large, so it can get expensive to ship.

Garage sales used to be a good place to find old vinyl, but now not as much. Still worth a peak sometimes though.

For new presses, I generally buy from the internet, and sometimes even direct from the label.

What is a good starter turntable?

Technics 1200/1210. 1200 is gray, 1210s are black. Same thing though.

Old ones that were well kept are generally just as good as the new ones, so, I wouldn't worry too much about buying them used.

Why do I want to listen to vinyl? well that one might be answered because i want to play around with it.

Because vinyl has soul.

 

[bigaudiofanatic]

Thanks man, so I am going to need a TT and some clean records to get me started. I am going to try to find a local guy on like craigslist selling a TT and i already have a few eagles albums on records.

 

[Fr3ak]

If you're serious about getting into mixing vinyl this is what you need....

As far as turntables you always want to go with "direct drive." if you want to do a lot of scratching get staight arm decks, if you want to focus on mixing get curved arm decks.

Technics have been the standard since the 70's. I have a pair of Stanton T120c's (I like them more than the technics...more torque, on the fly adjustable start/break time, reverse button, +/- 8, 25,50 pitch control, pitch lock, same price as the tech's). I definitely recommend them...built very solid.

next you need good needles, some table come with them but most don't. there are two types of needles, elliptical and spherical. elliptical needles track better and are more common/cheaper, spherical needles provide better sound quality (i haven't really noticed though). spherical needles tend to eat up your records and are more expensive. Sure m447's (great for mixing and scratching) are quite decent and are widely used. I have a pair and they are great (not to pricey either) i'd recommend sure or ortophon, ortophons are pretty top shelf but the sure's will work too.

next, you'll need a mixer. start at entry level unless you know you'll be doing this for years. behringer, dennon, and vestax make good entry level mixers. (things to look for in a mixer: number of channels, high/mid/low eq, crossfader, number of outputs.) basically you want options! (i'd steer clear of digital mixers unless they are really nice)

Why vinyl? Vinyl reproduces 100 pecent pure analog sound, nothing digital about it. vinyl records give a certain element of transparency along with a very rich/warm sound. the downside is you have to keep your vinyl clean and buy new records when they ware out (it depends on how many times you play them...but usually they can handle being played over and over for a LONG time) (be sure to store records vertically and never leave them out in the sun...they will warp!)

hope this helps!

check this gear out...

Stanton T120c
Sure M447
Behringer VMX300
Go to thrift stores for vinyl!!!

 

[TLS Guy]

If you're serious about getting into mixing vinyl this is what you need....

As far as turntables you always want to go with "direct drive." if you want to do a lot of scratching get staight arm decks, if you want to focus on mixing get curved arm decks.

Technics have been the standard since the 70's. I have a pair of Stanton T120c's (I like them more than the technics...more torque, on the fly adjustable start/break time, reverse button, +/- 8, 25,50 pitch control, pitch lock, same price as the tech's). I definitely recommend them...built very solid.

next you need good needles, some table come with them but most don't. there are two types of needles, elliptical and spherical. elliptical needles track better and are more common/cheaper, spherical needles provide better sound quality (i haven't really noticed though). spherical needles tend to eat up your records and are more expensive. Sure m447's (great for mixing and scratching) are quite decent and are widely used. I have a pair and they are great (not to pricey either) i'd recommend sure or ortophon, ortophons are pretty top shelf but the sure's will work too.

next, you'll need a mixer. start at entry level unless you know you'll be doing this for years. behringer, dennon, and vestax make good entry level mixers. (things to look for in a mixer: number of channels, high/mid/low eq, crossfader, number of outputs.) basically you want options! (i'd steer clear of digital mixers unless they are really nice)

Why vinyl? Vinyl reproduces 100 pecent pure analog sound, nothing digital about it. vinyl records give a certain element of transparency along with a very rich/warm sound. the downside is you have to keep your vinyl clean and buy new records when they ware out (it depends on how many times you play them...but usually they can handle being played over and over for a LONG time) (be sure to store records vertically and never leave them out in the sun...they will warp!)

hope this helps!

May be the OP does not want to scratch, which requires specialized equipment as you point out. If he is not going to scratch a belt drive will be just fine.

If the OPs receiver does not have a high gain RIAA phono stage he will need a phono preamp as well as turntable cartridge and receiver or pre amp and amp.

I recommend Needle doctor. They have everything he needs. The staff are knowledgeable and helpful. As the OP is a novice he will need the guidance of their experienced staff.

 

[bigaudiofanatic]

Correct I am not looking to scratch or anything like that. I just want to be able to play records. Also I am not a total newb I have been installing car audio systems for 5 years and been in home audio for 7 years. I just never got involved with records. I love trying new stuff. Also my receiver is a Pioneer Elite VSX-56TXi

 

[TLS Guy]

Correct I am not looking to scratch or anything like that. I just want to be able to play records. Also I am not a total newb I have been installing car audio systems for 5 years and been in home audio for 7 years. I just never got involved with records. I love trying new stuff. Also my receiver is a Pioneer Elite VSX-56TXi

There is no phono input listed on the specs. Does your manual say of there is a disc phono RIAA input? It looks as if you will need a phono preamp, to play vinyl with that receiver.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Yeah, I think he misunderstood. Regardless, I think that the DJ stuff is the way to go. I've messed with a lot of audiophile turntables, and most of them are pretty junky and fragile. Even some pretty expensive ones. The belt drive turntables say they're better isolated, but the Technics and Stantons are brushless servo motors. Also, this solves speed problems that belts can suffer with (especially over time).

Also, the Shure M44-7's he recommended, actually sound really good even though they are touted as DJ stuff.

Also, as a personal preference, and a habit of DJing, I almost always have the deck running while I load vinyl... partially stalling it, which would be bad for a belt drive. I find having to deal with belt drives for that reason annoying. Again, this is just a personal preference thing, but, still something to note if you plan on listening to record after record.

 

[bigaudiofanatic]

There is no phono input listed on the specs. Does your manual say of there is a disc phono RIAA input? It looks as if you will need a phono preamp, to play vinyl with that receiver.

Ya there is no phono input, but from what I have read arent there a lot of newer TT that have preouts that are just rcas? Or I guess I will need a phono preamp.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah, I think he misunderstood. Regardless, I think that the DJ stuff is the way to go. I've messed with a lot of audiophile turntables, and most of them are pretty junky and fragile. Even some pretty expensive ones. The belt drive turntables say they're better isolated, but the Technics and Stantons are brushless servo motors. Also, this solves speed problems that belts can suffer with (especially over time).

Also, the Shure M44-7's he recommended, actually sound really good even though they are touted as DJ stuff.

Also, as a personal preference, and a habit of DJing, I almost always have the deck running while I load vinyl... partially stalling it, which would be bad for a belt drive. I find having to deal with belt drives for that reason annoying. Again, this is just a personal preference thing, but, still something to note if you plan on listening to record after record.

My belt drive Thorens TD 150 belt drive turntable (the first one by the way) was purchased by me in 1966. It has had hours and hours of use. I changed the belt once, but it was not giving any problems, and I likely could still be using the same belt. There is nothing inherently wrong with a belt drive design.

Here is the turntable, the SME series three arm is the fourth I have had on it since I bought it.

 

[bigaudiofanatic]

Very nice little setup you have there. Did you make that cabinet yourself?

 

[TLS Guy]

Very nice little setup you have there. Did you make that cabinet yourself?

Yes, my two vintage turntable cases.

Vintage turntables can still be a good solution for spinning vinyl.

 

[bigaudiofanatic]

Very NICE!!

I was looking at these, probably not as nice as yours but it is a start.

http://www.amazon.com/AT-LP2D-USB-Automatic-Turntable-Recording-Cartridge/dp/B000UKUDSE/ref=sr_1_278?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1258081669&sr=1-278

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PS-LX300USB-Stereo-Turntable-System/dp/B0015HOFZI/ref=sr_1_340?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1258081858&sr=1-340

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-PL-990-2-Speed-Automatic-Turntable/dp/B00009QORL/ref=sr_1_437?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1258082055&sr=1-437

 

[TLS Guy]

Very NICE!!

I was looking at these, probably not as nice as yours but it is a start.

http://www.amazon.com/AT-LP2D-USB-Automatic-Turntable-Recording-Cartridge/dp/B000UKUDSE/ref=sr_1_278?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1258081669&sr=1-278

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PS-LX300USB-Stereo-Turntable-System/dp/B0015HOFZI/ref=sr_1_340?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1258081858&sr=1-340

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-PL-990-2-Speed-Automatic-Turntable/dp/B00009QORL/ref=sr_1_437?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1258082055&sr=1-437

I think they are too downmarket and will get you frustrated. Turntables are mechanical and not like digital equipment. Therefore there is highly significant increase in performance as you move up the food chain so to speak. Also unless you are going to archive LPs you don't need a USB turntable. The fact those turntables have DACs means there is just not enough to spend on decent bearings in the turntable and tone arm and practically nothing left for the cartridge.

What is your budget? Once I know that we can make some recommendations. Remember the most expensive purchases you ever make are junk.

 

[Alex2507]

What is your budget? Once I know that we can make some recommendations. Remember the most expensive purchases you ever make are junk.

Great line. $100 seems to be where it's at for him.
Not that I would know personally but Chris/WmAx had this to say to me about a Technics SL-Q2 from eBay.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=599760&postcount=19

That's the lowest budget recommendation I have ever heard and they are out there.
This is NOT a great price but just an example ... but it does have a cartridge.

http://cgi.ebay.com/TECHNICS-SL-Q2-DIRECT-DRIVE-TURNTABLE-W-AT-CARTRIDGE_W0QQitemZ140357022991QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item20adee350f

 

[pthoresen]

I bought mine in the late 80's a direct drive Pioneer PL 550.
It still works and has given me all i need

Yes, two of your examples are ESB and the third is direct into an amp.
You will need to make up your mind what you are using it for
(listening or digitizing)

I second the reminder that it is a mechanical device not just electronic.

 

[WmAx]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Technics-Stereo-Direct-Drive-Turntable-Record-Player_W0QQitemZ370287810490QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5636df97ba

BIN is too high - but he will not likely ever sell it at this price. I recommend using the MAKE AN OFFER button on the auction and offer him 90-100 dollars plus his shipping.

This (Technics SL-Q3) is a great table, overall. Very comparble to Technics SL-1200MKII. It has heavy cast chassis, extreme high quality low noise DC quartz locked motor and a good tone arm (same arm as used on SL-1200MKII, minus the vertical tracking adjustment base). A much better option than the low cost entry-level 'audiophile' tables - which are far less quality build and have usually very poor speed stability(causing audible pitch changes on sustained notes).

Other comparable tables are:
SL-Q2
SL-1400MKII
SL-1600MKII

However, the Q2/Q3 is much less well known, usually resulting in the lowest selling prices, so these are the ones I usually recommend for starter tables. I call them 'starter' tables, but in reality, they are more than good enough for most 'hi-fi' systems.

As always with a used table being shipped - make it clear to the seller that he MUST remove the platter and pack it separately and he must secure the tone arm down with tape or twist ties. If a table is shipped with a platter in place, it is not likely to make it to you without substantial damage, especially a table like this with a relatively heavy cast and machined metal alloy platter.

-Chris

 

[MidnightSensi]

That's a really good point about the platter. Also watch shipping costs, because technics are heavy.

Just as a note.... The 1200 was actually originally designed to be the ultimate audiophile turntable. It became a DJ turntable because of its strong, quiet (brushless) motor, pitch control, and strong structure.