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lucassean

Audioholic Intern
Hello,

Any opinions between AV123 speakers versus Paradigm's. Thanks:)
 
gonk

gonk

Full Audioholic
I'd want to look at which specific models of speakers you were considering, but even before that you may want to make sure you've skimmed through a bit of this AV123 thread.
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
Don't let that thread scare you. There are plenty of quality used AV123 products available for sale that will get you around having to deal with the AV123 drama. But I agree that we need to know specific model comparisons to give an opinion.
 
mperfct

mperfct

Audioholic Samurai
I have an AV123 MFW-15 and it works great, but a lot of people's didn't/doesn't. AV123 seem to be at an entirely different pricepoint/market than Paradigm. Paradigm's are awesome, and at the very top of my list (maybe #2 to RBH Signature) for widely available speakers.

I agree with the guys above though, which models specifically are you referring too. I'm sure P-Dawg can chip in here too with some good insight.
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
There are lots of good speaker companies out there. Personally I would not bother with a company like AV123 when there are so many others around that you can count on to respond properly if you ever have an issue with your purchase.
 
MinusTheBear

MinusTheBear

Audioholic Ninja
Hello,

Any opinions between AV123 speakers versus Paradigm's. Thanks:)
This is a very general question so I will give you a general response. For your internet direct company option drop AV123 from your list and consider these other companies instead. There are many other great internet direct companies out there that offer quality products, amazing customer service, longer warranties and are not surrounded by drama, quality control problems and unethical business practices. I am not sure what you are looking for so here are some links to their websites.

www.ascendacoustics.com/
www.aperionaudio.com/
www.axiomaudio.com/
www.svsound.com/
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
This is a very general question so I will give you a general response. For your internet direct company option drop AV123 from your list and consider these other companies instead. There are many other great internet direct companies out there that offer quality products, amazing customer service, longer warranties and are not surrounded by drama, quality control problems and unethical business practices. I am not sure what you are looking for so here are some links to their websites.

www.ascendacoustics.com/
www.aperionaudio.com/
www.axiomaudio.com/
www.svsound.com/
Also add Salk Sound to your list...
I own and like Paradigm, but all these companies make some pretty darn good speakers...

FWIW, I have 5 Paradigm Studio .v4's for sale, 100's, 690 CC and 20's, all in perfect working order...
 
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lucassean

Audioholic Intern
More specifics

I think I may be stuck a little. For my bedroom I bought ( a while back ) 2 av123 ref1 onix speakers as fronts. Then I wanted to balance the speaker setup by staying with the same manufacturer so I bought out of their open box dept an ELT525C Center and two ELT525M Mini Monitors as surrounds. The system sounds great as I just bought a B & K AV5000 S2 amp on ebay. My problem is that I got a couple of Paradigm Atoms new from the dealer in town. These I'm using as PC desktop speakers with an infinity PS 8 active sub all driven by an ALO Audio Little singer tube amp. Talk about some fantastic sound! I did listen to the Paradigm Ref's when I was there. They were very good but I couldn't justify the expense for desktop use. So back to the bedroom.... I guess I know or wish that I'd gone with Paradigm's. Their sound is impressive that's for sure. I've read about the av123 drama. It's a shame.
I just wanted to get your guys' input.

Warpdrv, what do you want for your Paradigm's. I'll PM you as well. Thanks all, Chris.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
I was pretty certain that you would PM me and offer to give me the 690 CC...
Also add Salk Sound to your list...
I own and like Paradigm, but all these companies make some pretty darn good speakers...

FWIW, I have 5 Paradigm Studio .v4's for sale, 100's, 690 CC and 20's, all in perfect working order...
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
I posted them in the Classified section for anyone interested, sorry to derail the thread, that was not my intention...

Warp
 
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Rudiepoo1

Audiophyte
Alot of times av123 does allow warranty work if any through the orginal owner, I've seen this many times. Right now I have a complete 7.2 x-statik system on order with 2 MFW-15's. I've also owned a complete Paradigm Reference Studio system in the past some I'm interested how things will compare.
 
woofersus

woofersus

Audioholic
I don't want to get into a pro/con AV123 thing, but I do want to point out something. You're not really with the same manufacturer at all right now as AV123 and Onix went their separate ways a year ago and the ELT525 series has very little in common with the Onix Reference series. I actually think the ELT525 stuff is pretty good for the price, but the center channel is a bit of a weak link due to cabinet resonance. If you want to keep that I'd recommend investing in a sheet NoRez from GR Research or precut kit from Skiing Ninja. It will make a world of difference in dialog intelligibility.

I've demoed the Paradigm Atoms and thought they were decent, but would probably spend the extra $150 on the Mini Monitors because I thought they were a better value at their price point. The ELT525M's are a touch to the warm side of neutral, and the Atoms probably expose more detail, but I find the ELT525M's a little more fluid and musical in the midrange, which is more important to me.

The Ref 1's are a completely different story. The drivers are a bit higher quality than the previous two contenders, but the crossover design is only so-so. Some like a forward-tilted response, but it's not for me. Skiing Ninja sells a crossover upgrade for them that isn't just higher grade components, but a whole new network design by Danny Richie, and I think it's just a night and day difference in the Ref's. I really liked them a lot in their upgraded state. The price of the upgrades puts them in competition with some pretty good speakers though, so that option is a whole other debate.

disclaimer: I'm an onix dealer, and while I try to be objective and unbiased in comments about the brand, I feel I should disclose my affiliation.

I also demoed Studio 20's and wasn't in love with them. (it was two years ago - V4 I think?) They do a lot of things objectively well, but as an overall experience I actually enjoyed the Mini Monitors more. I found the Studio 20's very smooth and extended up top, with good detail and resolution, but they weren't very dynamic and loud rock felt compressed to me. The image was wide, but stayed up along the back wall and never jumped out at me. "Too Polite" occured to me at the time, if that makes any sense. I can certainly see how some may like their sound a lot though. As I said, they were certainly refined and detailed.

I personally won't be buying from AV123 anymore for a variety of reasons, but if you purchase something that isn't still "in development" and doesn't have an amplifier in it, then you'll get a quality product. If you want to know what the issues are, it's not hard to find those threads. I don't want to make this one of them.
 
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lucassean

Audioholic Intern
Great info!

Thank you very much. This is probably the best info on what I have that has been provided. Yes the ELT525C is the weak link. When i was trying to match a center with the Onix Ref 1's I called AV123 and was told the 525 had the best matching drivers. The man told me he may have had a returned ref 100 center and would check. I never heard from him. So I bought a B stock 525C from them. I have found an Onix REF 100 Center on Audiogon, but am hesitant. The Skiing Ninja upgrading options are very exciting. I didn't even know there was such an option.
I guess I have 3 options;
1. Upgrade the 525C with the Skiing Ninja upgrades.
2. Buy the Ref 100 on Audiogon.
3. Try to find an economical " best matching center ".

Again, thanks to all for the great education so far. Further opinions and suggestions are greatly appreciated = "Which option would you do"?
 
woofersus

woofersus

Audioholic
Well, with the skiing ninja upgrade, you could either do the full crossover upgrade, or just line the cabinet with NoRez. I think just the NoRez would make a pretty big difference. I upgraded a pair of ELT525T's with NoRez and the difference was fairly big. That series has cabinets that are too thin, and some of that "warmth" they have is resonance, which is smearing details and really hurts intelligibility for a center channel. I'm not sure the cost, but I'd imagine ~$40 for the center channel, so not a huge investment if you want to try it out. The crossover upgrade is a bit more expensive, and not a new design. It's just upgraded components. I can tell you after having upgraded a pair of the ELT525M monitors with Ninja Master level crossovers, that it does make a difference - specifically in the ability to reveal more detail, but it's not night and day. It's just a way to get more out of the speakers you have, which is nice if you really like the form factor.

However, I think that before you spend $200 or more on upgrading that speaker, you should just sell it and get a used Ref 100. The reason I say this is that you have Ref 1's for fronts already, and it would give you a matching front stage. The exception would be if you really want the compact size of the ELT525C. That's one of the biggest attractions to that lineup IMHO. If you have space for it, it's probably worth the extra $100 to get the used Ref 100. There are better center channels out there (although it competes well in it's price range) but I think it's pretty important to match your front three if you can.

The ninja master upgrade to the Ref100 would be a big step up, but that's a large chunk of change. I guess when you get upgraditis again, you can decide if you want to upgrade the Refs across the front or switch out for different speakers altogether. Like I said, the Reference series ninja upgrades are completely different network designs and not a subtle change.
 
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lucassean

Audioholic Intern
Made offer

I made a great offer to the man selling the ref 100 on audiogon. Just waiting on his response. The more I thought about it after reading your post, the question remained. Why would I not take the opportunity to have a matched front sound stage? I've already got the "wife" reasoning point - " Honey it'll make the Christmas music come alive for our Christmas party". In her own beautiful way, she'll be just as excited as I am. Thank you again, Chris.
 

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