Ft. Hood Shooting

[majorloser]

http://www.gwumc.edu/hspi/newsroom/HSPIStatementonNidalHasan.pdf

 

[aberkowitz]

This is a horrible tragedy that should have never happened. Anyone who thinks islam is a peaceful religion need to look no further than the website link below. It is anything but, and they have impeccable documentation to show you.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

But Jeff, what about all of the people killed over the past 2000 years in the name of Christianity? Just because Torquemada didn't have a website expressing his hatred for all non-Christians doesn't mean he wasn't an evil bastard. Look at the history of Europe, there are literally hundreds of years of war that were fought that pitted by one sect of Christianity against another. Let's not forget that the KKK was founded as a proud Christian organization that uses burning crosses as its main symbol.

I'm not trying to use this argument to defend this cowardly piece of s**t who decided to shoot up an army base (and I'm all for drawing and quartering), but I refuse to paint everybody with the same brush just because of their beliefs. Once we start doing that we cross a dangerous line.

I know many muslims, including some who have served in this country's military, none of whom I would describe as violent and all of whom are proud to live in this country.

Let's also keep in mind that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were members of the Army (with McVeigh being a well decorated Gulf War vet) before killing/injuring almost 1000 men, women, and children in an act I would describe as 100 times more cowardly than what happened at Fort Hood.

 

[aberkowitz]

http://www.gwumc.edu/hspi/newsroom/HSPIStatementonNidalHasan.pdf

Major- maybe I missed a previous post, but what's the significance of this release?

 

[majorloser]

Major- maybe I missed a previous post, but what's the significance of this release?

Pretty obvious. Background on the shooter. The HSPI is a think tank for Homeland Security issues. And now they're running away from him like the plague since he has been linked to them in the press.

http://www.gwumc.edu/hspi/

http://blogs.gwhatchet.com/newsroom/2009/11/06/fort-hood-gunman-attended-hspi-events-as-an-audience-member/?hp

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/11/06/fort_hood_misinformation

 

[jeffsg4mac]

But Jeff, what about all of the people killed over the past 2000 years in the name of Christianity? Just because Torquemada didn't have a website expressing his hatred for all non-Christians doesn't mean he wasn't an evil bastard. Look at the history of Europe, there are literally hundreds of years of war that were fought that pitted by one sect of Christianity against another. Let's not forget that the KKK was founded as a proud Christian organization that uses burning crosses as its main symbol.

I'm not trying to use this argument to defend this cowardly piece of s**t who decided to shoot up an army base (and I'm all for drawing and quartering), but I refuse to paint everybody with the same brush just because of their beliefs. Once we start doing that we cross a dangerous line.

I know many muslims, including some who have served in this country's military, none of whom I would describe as violent and all of whom are proud to live in this country.

Let's also keep in mind that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were members of the Army (with McVeigh being a well decorated Gulf War vet) before killing/injuring almost 1000 men, women, and children in an act I would describe as 100 times more cowardly than what happened at Fort Hood.

They address that issue on the site and while no murder in the name of any religion is acceptable, the numbers in the name of islam is staggering in comparison to the other things you mentioned. Scroll down on the site and dig deeper and you will find the answers you are looking for.

 

[highfigh]

But Jeff, what about all of the people killed over the past 2000 years in the name of Christianity? Just because Torquemada didn't have a website expressing his hatred for all non-Christians doesn't mean he wasn't an evil bastard. Look at the history of Europe, there are literally hundreds of years of war that were fought that pitted by one sect of Christianity against another. Let's not forget that the KKK was founded as a proud Christian organization that uses burning crosses as its main symbol.

I'm not trying to use this argument to defend this cowardly piece of s**t who decided to shoot up an army base (and I'm all for drawing and quartering), but I refuse to paint everybody with the same brush just because of their beliefs. Once we start doing that we cross a dangerous line.

I know many muslims, including some who have served in this country's military, none of whom I would describe as violent and all of whom are proud to live in this country.

Let's also keep in mind that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were members of the Army (with McVeigh being a well decorated Gulf War vet) before killing/injuring almost 1000 men, women, and children in an act I would describe as 100 times more cowardly than what happened at Fort Hood.

As soon as I learned about the Inquisition, the Crusades and how the Muslims stormed through Europe, I thought "Why would I want to be associated with an organization that has condoned killing in the name of God?". People justify their actions in order to avoid feeling any responsibility for them and the present is no different from the past. They twist the words they read to suit their version of what they see as 'The Truth' and it's even easier for them to feel isolated from the acts when they delegate then to other people. Killing is killing, whether through the actual deed or by instructing others to do it.

Several here have posted that he should be drawn and quartered. OK, go out and find someone who's willing to do this to them.

Never mind, with the people in our society now, I don't think it would be very hard.

 

[Adam]

I haven't read this whole thread, so perhaps this has been mentioned already. I'm curious of the wider impact that the shooter may have (or had) given his role as a psychiatrist. I wonder if he planted seeds of dissent into impressionable minds.

 

[rnatalli]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/10/fort.hood.shooting/index.html

I fail to see why Muslims are special in this regard.

 

[Alex2507]

From the article:

"Federal agents attempted to interview Hasan on Sunday, but he refused to cooperate and asked for an attorney ... "

What an incredible waste of money it will be to try, defend and convict this guy when a few minutes with a regular guy would see this situation to a quiet end.

 

[rnatalli]

From the article:

"Federal agents attempted to interview Hasan on Sunday, but he refused to cooperate and asked for an attorney ... "

What an incredible waste of money it will be to try, defend and convict this guy when a few minutes with a regular guy would see this situation to a quiet end.

Everyone is entitled to their day in court, but I say instead of wasting money paying for his stay in prison, put him in handcuffs and a leash and send him into the mine fields. In this case, he has his wish of not fighting other Muslims.

 

[fredk]

What an incredible waste of money it will be to try, defend and convict this guy when a few minutes with a regular guy would see this situation to a quiet end.

When the Iranians decide without a court or the rule of law who is guilty and send out the goon squad, we scream in protest how undemocratic this is.

The rule of law and the presumption of innocence is what separates us from a large part of the world. In cases like this, where things seem cut and dried, it is tempting to take a shortcut, but it exactly here that it is most important to apply the rule of law equally, even though it costs a lot.

It is not his rights we are protecting, it is our collective 'right' to the privilege of the rule of law and out personal freedoms.

Eliminate the rule of law and you have the slaughter of the Jews in ww2, the genocide in Rwanda or Sudan or the former Yugoslavia. You have the persecution of protesters in Iran. You get trial by opinion or decree.

The privilege of freedom comes at a financial price that, IMO, is well worth it.

 

[highfigh]

When the Iranians decide without a court or the rule of law who is guilty and send out the goon squad, we scream in protest how undemocratic this is.

The rule of law and the presumption of innocence is what separates us from a large part of the world. In cases like this, where things seem cut and dried, it is tempting to take a shortcut, but it exactly here that it is most important to apply the rule of law equally, even though it costs a lot.

It is not his rights we are protecting, it is our collective 'right' to the privilege of the rule of law and out personal freedoms.

Eliminate the rule of law and you have the slaughter of the Jews in ww2, the genocide in Rwanda or Sudan or the former Yugoslavia. You have the persecution of protesters in Iran. You get trial by opinion or decree.

The privilege of freedom comes at a financial price that, IMO, is well worth it.

OK but I'm pretty sure there are enough witnesses to convict him easily, so it will be a short trial. At least it should be, unless he gets a sheister lawyer to claim that he was under some third party stress. I already read a comment like that and IMO, if he's affected by what other people tell him, he was the wrong person for the job and should have been removed long ago. If he doesn't know himself well enough to know that he should ask for help if he's stressed out or being badly affected by what he hears, reads and does, he should never have made it as far as he did. Apparently, he was investigated by someone at the Pentagon before. I can't wait to read that it was Bush's fault he did this.

 

[Rickster71]

From the article:

"Federal agents attempted to interview Hasan on Sunday, but he refused to cooperate and asked for an attorney ... "

What an incredible waste of money it will be to try, defend and convict this guy when a few minutes with a regular guy would see this situation to a quiet end.

I heard on CNN the other day that the USA taxpayers paid close to $500,000 for his education while he was in the military.

 

[majorloser]

When the Iranians decide without a court or the rule of law who is guilty and send out the goon squad, we scream in protest how undemocratic this is.

The rule of law and the presumption of innocence is what separates us from a large part of the world. In cases like this, where things seem cut and dried, it is tempting to take a shortcut, but it exactly here that it is most important to apply the rule of law equally, even though it costs a lot.

It is not his rights we are protecting, it is our collective 'right' to the privilege of the rule of law and out personal freedoms.

Eliminate the rule of law and you have the slaughter of the Jews in ww2, the genocide in Rwanda or Sudan or the former Yugoslavia. You have the persecution of protesters in Iran. You get trial by opinion or decree.

The privilege of freedom comes at a financial price that, IMO, is well worth it.

I agree. It's not his rights I care about, it's mine.

But I'm not worried about whether justice will be served in this case. This will be a military court martial operating under the UCMJ. I see a firing squad in his future.

I had to laugh when I read his attorney thinks Hasan won't get a fair trial in the military, especially since Obama is showing up at the memorial services.

You've got his commander-in-chief showing up tomorrow. That same kind of publicity naturally creates an issue as to whether you find a fair and impartial forum, whether that's in the military or even if it were in a federal forum.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6534911/Fort-Hood-shooting-gunman-to-face-US-military-court.html

 

[JerryLove]

I heard on CNN the other day that the USA taxpayers paid close to $500,000 for his education while he was in the military.

We also got something like 20 years of work out of him.

I'd say my issues with this guy have "but I spent a lot to train you" very low on the radar. I would like to find out what actually happened to get us to this rampage. There is perhaps something we should be doing to prevent another.

After that: a speedy execution does seem in order.

 

[mike c]

i don't get why the default setting of f-up'ed people over there is to take people with them.

 

[majorloser]

i don't get why the default setting of f-up'ed people over there is to take people with them.

We prefer they commit suicide first, but for some reason they alway get it wrong and shoot others. I blame the news media. It's the nutjob's hope that what they're doing will make them famous after they're gone.


Yes Mike, we are an f'd up country. But it's still mine to complain about.

 

[mike c]

We prefer they commit suicide first, but for some reason they alway get it wrong and shoot others. I blame the news media. It's the nutjob's hope that what they're doing will make them famous after they're gone.

Yes Mike, we are an f'd up country. But it's still mine to complain about.

you're right, aside from the media ... i can't imagine anything else to blame. (anti-gun people can't complain about guns in a military base)

lol, suicide first ... reminds me of a movie where a guy simulates suicide by making a mock gun with his hands and shooting at his head ... twice. he's so suicidal he can headshot himself twice.

 

[TLS Guy]

We also got something like 20 years of work out of him.

I'd say my issues with this guy have "but I spent a lot to train you" very low on the radar. I would like to find out what actually happened to get us to this rampage. There is perhaps something we should be doing to prevent another.

After that: a speedy execution does seem in order.

I tell you what we can do for a start. We can stop pussyfooting around with offensive Muslim monikers.

I would start with Infidel, whether sanctioned by the Quran or not. To refer to anyone other than a Muslim as an Infidel, and assert they must become Muslim converts is offensive.

In the Western democracies any Muslim who refers to any other group as Infidels should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and that goes to any other of their offensive racist epithets.

Its time to serve them notice no allowances will be made for this sort of unacceptable nonsense.

 

[JerryLove]

you're right, aside from the media ... i can't imagine anything else to blame. (anti-gun people can't complain about guns in a military base)

Actually: you aren't allowed to carry a weapon on a millitary base. Weapons are checked out from the armory for use on the range (or for duty if MP) and then returned.

http://www.bnd.com/404/story/998514.html