Need some opinions for a TV.

[Yamaheart]

Oh yeah, that is right. I forgot about the bulb cost of the PJ. What is each bulb cost and last for how long? Beside the screen is bigger, I do not see any advantage over Plasma. True, it wont be a Theater without the PJ, but that is only if you intended to have a dedicated Home Theater. Since my living room is the only fun room. It must be something that universal/multipurpose for every occasion. Well, as for now, my mind is still on the Pana Plasma, unless the Pana plasma price goes up, I might reconsider it. Thank you for your time Jostenmeat.....

 

[jostenmeat]

You're welcome. I expect your bulb price to be between $150-200. You can add a warranty for it as well. For instance, I bought a Mack powerbuy, and for $260 total, they extend my PJ warranty to six years, and give me two free bulbs.

Yes, of course, the main benefit of a PJ is size indeed! But, it's very hard to underestimate size's significance. However, again, if you really can sit just 7ft away, just get the plasma for sure. 10ft, that becomes a more difficult decision. For instance, at 10ft, to hit the THX rec for viewing angle, you need a 90" screen. However, many of us projector users have a greater viewing angle than that. Some more food for thought:



plasma guy looking at FP
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1167265

high end pj vs kuro 60"
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1168406

Kuro plasma vs RS20
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1171636

can you win at the 3k price point
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1147360

best projector vs pioneer kuro
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1151838

coming from a kuro, which projector
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1185790


crap, I did all that searching, and this guy had already done that... lol
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17308926&postcount=5



LASTLY, please check out this post. It is Epson 1080UB vs Kuro, same room. That PJ will be two generations old already this very month. I would not be surprised if the two-generations-better 8500 comes out at 2k or less, due to the competitive pressure applied by Pana's 4000 intro price.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17319201&postcount=9

 

[lsiberian]

PJs are amazing. I'd never go back.

 

[Yamaheart]

PJs are amazing. I'd never go back.

Here we go again. Haha.

Thank you to Jostenmeat and lsiberian...

Damn, the last post comparison of the Epson and Kuro shocked me. That was amazing man. I read several thread from Jostenmeat stated that your room has to be almost pitch black. Since my room has White ceiling, the wall are tan in color, and I have shiny wood floor. Which is not a problem at night, everything is gonna dark to watch movies. One thing for sure is, I wont repaint anything in this living room if I decided to get a PJ due to the whole house is match and cant imagine myself repaint(pain in the butt). For my curtains, lights seem to shine thru them, but that should be easy fix by giving them 1 or 2 layers. My main concerns now are:

1st. As long as the light condition in my room will not affect the whole PJ experience, and later I will be regret about it. Due this is not a dedicated HT room.

2nd. Like I was saying before, having a plasma will also help me as a computer monitor when needed, and friends over for Karaoke Nights when lights are dim. So then I can take the Vizio in my bedroom.

3rd. So help me......

 

[lsiberian]

1. Most PJs do just fine with a little light in the room as long as it's not directly hitting the picture.

2. PJs are used for computer presentations

1. My room is completely white
2. I don't even use a screen.
3. My PJ is bottom of the barrel

Results of a PJ setup: Family Envy(my brother and his wife wanted one to replace their LCD.) Best immersion(Size has it's advantages) Easy to move or take somewhere for a fun gig(assuming you shelf mount)

I of course go used, but I'm a techy with no fear of electronics.

 

[Yamaheart]

What is the length of 100" and 120" screen? hehe, kinda measure out my space... Thanks

 

[Yamaheart]

1. Most PJs do just fine with a little light in the room as long as it's not directly hitting the picture.

2. PJs are used for computer presentations

1. My room is completely white
2. I don't even use a screen.
3. My PJ is bottom of the barrel

Results of a PJ setup: Family Envy(my brother and his wife wanted one to replace their LCD.) Best immersion(Size has it's advantages) Easy to move or take somewhere for a fun gig(assuming you shelf mount)

I of course go used, but I'm a techy with no fear of electronics.

What PJ do you have? "Bottom of the barrel" CHEAP? Got any pictures of your set up? Thanks man...

 

[jostenmeat]

2nd. Like I was saying before, having a plasma will also help me as a computer monitor when needed, and friends over for Karaoke Nights when lights are dim. So then I can take the Vizio in my bedroom.

If you are completely against both flat panel and PJ combined, I definitely vote plasma for your uses, which are many. Then with karoake, I assume some butt shaking, standing up, cocktail in one hand, mic in the other, and in order not to physically block the light path, the screen will need to be high, the PJ ceiling mounted rather close, with close to or at maximum vertical shift and zoom.

If only one or the other, get the plasma. However, there are several members here who have the plasma + tab tensioned. I can think of at least three off the bat, and I'm sure I can think of more members later.

What is the length of 100" and 120" screen? hehe, kinda measure out my space... Thanks

88" and 105", respectively. Add several inches for frame/border.
http://tvcalculator.com/index.html?661386e64549df82a39bc002521000e0

Again, if you ever considered a different AR than 16:9 for your screen (since the Pana has preset memories), those numbers would be different (a bit wider, but shorter too).

 

[FirstReflection]

In my first two rented apartments, my only display was a 92" High Power Model C Da-Lite manual pull-down screen with a Sanyo PLV-Z2 720p LCD projector. Being that it was my only display, I had thick curtains over all of the windows in my living room/dining/kitchen area

You can get away with a little bit of light - but not much. The High Power screen certainly helps because it is retro-reflective - which means that it bounces light back to its source rather than "spreading out" the light that hits it. With the High Power, much of the ambient light is reflected away from your eyes and back to where it came from. At the same time, if you position the projector close to your eye level (like on a shelf directly behind you or on top of a coffee table in front of you), the light from the projector is bounced back along the same path, which basically directs it right into your eyes. The retro-reflective High Power screen is also very high gain, so it looks way brighter than most typical screens. The High Power is a much better solution if you have a bit of ambient light than a "grey" screen, IMO.

With the shades that you have right now, there is no way that a front projection setup would look truly "good" during the day though. At night, I think a front projector setup would look good in your room, but during the day, too much light would come through those shades. I got tired of having to keep whole apartment dark just to watch TV during the day So you would either need to get some genuine black out curtains and keep the entire room area dark, or else you would want to have the plasma for daytime viewing and parties with the lights on and then have the front projection setup for night time movie viewing.

Your room is never going to be pitch black. So I honestly wouldn't bother looking for screens other than the High Power. As jostenmeat explained, it hides waves very well. So you can " get away" with a much less expensive manual pull-down High Power screen and I honestly think it would be the best choice for your room regardless.

I'm in total agreement with jostenmeat here - I think your best setup would be to have the plasma. If you want to add the pull-down High Power screen and a nice projector, there's nothing like a truly huge screen for movies! But the plasma should be your first priority, IMO. You'll be able to use it during the day without altering your current room. You'll be able to use it during parties with the lights on. And it's a better solution for "casual" viewing too, IMO.

So I'd suggest that you get the plasma first, but keep the front projection setup in mind. I wouldn't really suggest having the front projector as your only display in that room. I've lived through that and it's darn cool at first, but it also has its downsides

 

[Yamaheart]

In my first two rented apartments, my only display was a 92" High Power Model C Da-Lite manual pull-down screen with a Sanyo PLV-Z2 720p LCD projector. Being that it was my only display, I had thick curtains over all of the windows in my living room/dining/kitchen area

You can get away with a little bit of light - but not much. The High Power screen certainly helps because it is retro-reflective - which means that it bounces light back to its source rather than "spreading out" the light that hits it. With the High Power, much of the ambient light is reflected away from your eyes and back to where it came from. At the same time, if you position the projector close to your eye level (like on a shelf directly behind you or on top of a coffee table in front of you), the light from the projector is bounced back along the same path, which basically directs it right into your eyes. The retro-reflective High Power screen is also very high gain, so it looks way brighter than most typical screens. The High Power is a much better solution if you have a bit of ambient light than a "grey" screen, IMO.

With the shades that you have right now, there is no way that a front projection setup would look truly "good" during the day though. At night, I think a front projector setup would look good in your room, but during the day, too much light would come through those shades. I got tired of having to keep whole apartment dark just to watch TV during the day So you would either need to get some genuine black out curtains and keep the entire room area dark, or else you would want to have the plasma for daytime viewing and parties with the lights on and then have the front projection setup for night time movie viewing.

Your room is never going to be pitch black. So I honestly wouldn't bother looking for screens other than the High Power. As jostenmeat explained, it hides waves very well. So you can " get away" with a much less expensive manual pull-down High Power screen and I honestly think it would be the best choice for your room regardless.

I'm in total agreement with jostenmeat here - I think your best setup would be to have the plasma. If you want to add the pull-down High Power screen and a nice projector, there's nothing like a truly huge screen for movies! But the plasma should be your first priority, IMO. You'll be able to use it during the day without altering your current room. You'll be able to use it during parties with the lights on. And it's a better solution for "casual" viewing too, IMO.

So I'd suggest that you get the plasma first, but keep the front projection setup in mind. I wouldn't really suggest having the front projector as your only display in that room. I've lived through that and it's darn cool at first, but it also has its downsides

Well then, thanks all. I guess the Dilemma is KINDA over now. True, I can not afford 2 things at once now. When you guys gave me the ideas, I truly love them as bigger screen is perfect of Movies, but just for movies. Not good at all for parties, since I tend to have friends over to watch music videos and of course Karaoke Nights. So yes, Ill get me the plasma 1st and then hopefully the Pj. Thanks all for your help, you guys are so PRO at this kind of stuffs....

 

[lsiberian]

In my first two rented apartments, my only display was a 92" High Power Model C Da-Lite manual pull-down screen with a Sanyo PLV-Z2 720p LCD projector. Being that it was my only display, I had thick curtains over all of the windows in my living room/dining/kitchen area

You can get away with a little bit of light - but not much. The High Power screen certainly helps because it is retro-reflective - which means that it bounces light back to its source rather than "spreading out" the light that hits it. With the High Power, much of the ambient light is reflected away from your eyes and back to where it came from. At the same time, if you position the projector close to your eye level (like on a shelf directly behind you or on top of a coffee table in front of you), the light from the projector is bounced back along the same path, which basically directs it right into your eyes. The retro-reflective High Power screen is also very high gain, so it looks way brighter than most typical screens. The High Power is a much better solution if you have a bit of ambient light than a "grey" screen, IMO.

With the shades that you have right now, there is no way that a front projection setup would look truly "good" during the day though. At night, I think a front projector setup would look good in your room, but during the day, too much light would come through those shades. I got tired of having to keep whole apartment dark just to watch TV during the day So you would either need to get some genuine black out curtains and keep the entire room area dark, or else you would want to have the plasma for daytime viewing and parties with the lights on and then have the front projection setup for night time movie viewing.

Your room is never going to be pitch black. So I honestly wouldn't bother looking for screens other than the High Power. As jostenmeat explained, it hides waves very well. So you can " get away" with a much less expensive manual pull-down High Power screen and I honestly think it would be the best choice for your room regardless.

I'm in total agreement with jostenmeat here - I think your best setup would be to have the plasma. If you want to add the pull-down High Power screen and a nice projector, there's nothing like a truly huge screen for movies! But the plasma should be your first priority, IMO. You'll be able to use it during the day without altering your current room. You'll be able to use it during parties with the lights on. And it's a better solution for "casual" viewing too, IMO.

So I'd suggest that you get the plasma first, but keep the front projection setup in mind. I wouldn't really suggest having the front projector as your only display in that room. I've lived through that and it's darn cool at first, but it also has its downsides

Aren't the sanyo PJ's low lumens? The panasonic has higher lumens I believe so it can do much better with light than the Sanyo's. Also if you run the PJ in eco mode you won't get the brightness in normal mode. There are some drawbacks to normal mode though(shorter bulb life, more fan noise) I still prefer it to eco mode myself, but in an ambient light situation you may need to run it in normal mode. My PJ is a Optoma ep719 and only cost me around 100 bucks. I replaced the bulb after a few months just to be safe. But it runs fine for me. It's not flexible, but for a budget spender it was a much better deal than any TV I could find. I came from a 27" tv and now have 90" of great picture.

Now it must be stated I'm a techie raised in a techie family. I never suggest this approach to the average joe because PJs confuse most people.

 

[Yamaheart]

Aren't the sanyo PJ's low lumens? The panasonic has higher lumens I believe so it can do much better with light than the Sanyo's. Also if you run the PJ in eco mode you won't get the brightness in normal mode. There are some drawbacks to normal mode though(shorter bulb life, more fan noise) I still prefer it to eco mode myself, but in an ambient light situation you may need to run it in normal mode. My PJ is a Optoma ep719 and only cost me around 100 bucks. I replaced the bulb after a few months just to be safe. But it runs fine for me. It's not flexible, but for a budget spender it was a much better deal than any TV I could find. I came from a 27" tv and now have 90" of great picture.

Now it must be stated I'm a techie raised in a techie family. I never suggest this approach to the average joe because PJs confuse most people.

Thanks for everything Bro. I don't doubt that I will get the PJ in the future. But I would love to experience everything.　The best bet is to experience the plasma, and then PJ. Like from an Elephant to a Whale, blue whale. LOL. I wish I can afford both then there will be no dilemma.　But thanks for every thing You, Jostenmeat and First Reflection have taught me. I learn new stuffs in every thread. Thanks

 

[FirstReflection]

The problem for me when there was ambient light wasn't the brightness of the image or the visibility of the image - it was the washed out black, the loss of contrast and the loss of shadow detail. You can watch something that is bright and colorful if you have some ambient light and simply use a screen like the High Power and a projector with good light output. But a lot of TV shows and many movies contain a fair number of dark scenes and those just plain do not look good with ambient light around

 

[So MD TopGun]

Kuro Krp 6oom vs 141 elite

Does anyone know if there is a difference between the Kuro 600m and the 141 elite- (besides price)

 

[bandphan]

Does anyone know if there is a difference between the Kuro 600m and the 141 elite- (besides price)

No Tuners, No Stand, No Speakers, Less HDMI..... other than that not much at all

 

[njedpx3]

Does anyone know if there is a difference between the Kuro 600m and the 141 elite- (besides price)

A quick Google

KRP 600M
60" Kuro monitor 1080p typically wall mount; need to purchase a stand, no tv tuner, no speakers. Kuro has 2 year warranty. Calibaration is not as good.
you can add stand and speakers and wall mount. Only two HDMI inputs, composite, component, neeed DVI converison adapter to connect PC, but it can be done

PRO-151 FD

60 " Kuro Elite TV 1080p - has a TV tuner ( you won't use with satellite ir fiber and most likely no with cable unless you use only basic), removable stand, speakers that are mountable and can be easily removed, Elite has 3 year warranty. professional calibration.

4 HDMI ports, PC -VGA interface, USB interface, component, composite and S-video input.


PRO-141 FD

60" Kuro Elite monitor 1080p - typically wall mount; need to purchase a stand, no tv tuner, no speakers. Elite has 3 year warranty. 4 HDMI ports, PC -VGA interface, component, composite input.
professional calibration.


Physical 600M 151 141
Speakers Optional Side None
Stand Optional Normal Optional
Depth 2.5" 3.75" 2.5"
HDMI 2 4 4
DVI-D(HDCP) 1 0 1
D-SUB 15** 1 1 1
USB 0 1 0
Component 1 1 1
Composite 1 3 1
S-Video 0 1 0
Audio-In*** 2 5 0
Sensors 1 Light 2 Color/Light 1 Light
IR Repeater 1 1 1
Digital Audio Out 0 1 0
RS-232 1 1 [1
LAN**** 1 (For WCS) 1 (For HMG) 1 (For WCS)
ANT Terminal 0 1 0
AR Filter Elite Specific+ Elite Specific Elite Specific
Media Receiver No No No

*xx20 Speaker can be mounted on the top; Side mounting Elite speakers
====

Oh Yes Pioneer Plasmas are the best - Elites rock and kuro Elites totally rock!


Good Luck!

Forest Man

 

[jostenmeat]

No Tuners, No Stand, No Speakers, Less HDMI..... other than that not much at all

bandphan, please correct me if what I'm saying is inaccurate in any way, even if it's stated as an opinion:


The one significant advantage of the 141 is the onboard CALcontrol ISFccc, which allows calibration for both day and night viewing for each source.

With the 600M, an unauthorized patch is available, but will void your warranty.

If you are ok with voiding the warranty to have the absolute greatest flexibility in calibration, then you're good. (Or has that changed?)

If this is worrisome at all, then you have to weigh the cost vs benefit ratio.


So . . . on one hand people think Pios are the shiznit for a variety of reasons, but it's arguable that its greatest strength is its flexibility of calibration.

Here is a list of ISF Pros who are able to use CALcontrol on the 600M. It shows who can also patch it for you, and those who can't.

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=486

 

[bandphan]

Just getting to lazy to go into the calibration options