2 small subs vs. 1 big sub

T

thepoo

Enthusiast
Hi Folks,

What are the advantages and disadvantages of one big sub vs. two smaller subs?

I'm considering getting a single SVS PB12-NSD and adding a second one later only if needed, but then again, I could just splurge for a PB12-Plus or even the PB13-Ultra.

Thanks!
 
njedpx3

njedpx3

Audioholic General
Hi Folks,

What are the advantages and disadvantages of one big sub vs. two smaller subs?

I'm considering getting a single SVS PB12-NSD and adding a second one later only if needed, but then again, I could just splurge for a PB12-Plus or even the PB13-Ultra.

Thanks!
How big is your room ? I can vouch the PB12-Plus works very well in a 20 x 20 open room.

Good Luck!


Forest Man


P.S. - I like your brand choice :rolleyes:
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Hi Folks,

What are the advantages and disadvantages of one big sub vs. two smaller subs?

I'm considering getting a single SVS PB12-NSD and adding a second one later only if needed, but then again, I could just splurge for a PB12-Plus or even the PB13-Ultra.

Thanks!
smaller subs have less extension, but dual subs do allow for integration in a stereo setup with L-R channel.

Still for home theater go big. For music you can go small.
 
T

thepoo

Enthusiast
My HT is in an irregularly shaped ~600 sq-ft room with 8 ft ceiling, and with tiled floor.

Looking at the specs and SPL vs. Freq plots, I don’t see a big difference between the PB12-NSD ($570) and the PB12-Plus ($1,200). So, even the extensions of the two seem to be about the same.

I’m thinking maybe two PB12-NSD would be even better than a single PB12-Plus.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
My HT is in an irregularly shaped ~600 sq-ft room with 8 ft ceiling, and with tiled floor.

Looking at the specs and SPL vs. Freq plots, I don’t see a big difference between the PB12-NSD ($570) and the PB12-Plus ($1,200). So, even the extensions of the two seem to be about the same.

I’m thinking maybe two PB12-NSD would be even better than a single PB12-Plus.
If music is a priority, then two smaller subs are always a better choice than 1 sub, unless you can cross below 55Hz using a steep crossover rate (at least 4th order). In most cases, a higher crossover point is a better choice, even with so-called 'full range' speakers. Frankly, the sub is best handling 80Hz and under, which will minimize excursion from the drivers in the 'full range' speaker, allowing lower distortion at high SPL. At that frequency (80Hz), a single sub simply is not going to be a good integration.

-Chris
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
There are a number of factors to consider when it comes to bass.

To start, you want nice, linear extension all the way down to 20Hz if you're really after the full audio experience. You also want to achieve that linear extension with low distortion.

If you only have one seat that you really care about, you can carefully place a single subwoofer and then use active EQ to take care of any particularly nasty peaks at that one, primary location. If you have several seats that you care about though, then you really need at least 2 subwoofers. In order to achieve something close to linear response at several seats, you have to use multiple subs.

After thinking about linear response at all of the seats you care about with extension down to 20Hz and low distortion, you also have to think about output. There are quite a few subs that can deliver linear output with good extension and low distortion, but they can only do so at lower listening levels in the 80-90dB range. Crank up the volume and they stop being linear or they start to skyrocket in distortion or both!

Naturally, you need more output in a larger room. But you also need a lot of output regardless if you listen at reference levels and want to hit those 105-115dB LFE peaks!

So, to me, the "1 large sub vs. 2 smaller subs" question is really all about asking whether you need very loud output, but linear response at only one seat; or quieter output, but linear response at several seats. Of course, two large subwoofers can deliver very loud output with linear response at several seats ;)

The SVSound PB12-NSD is the most impressive relatively small, relatively inexpensive subwoofer that I know of. The Epik Sentinel is also extremely impressive for its relatively low price and relatively small enclosure.

Both the PB12-NSD and the Sentinel can output upwards of 105dB (from 6 feet away) whilst maintaining flat, linear response all the way down to about 22Hz and keeping the distortion to around 10% THD. That is amazingly good performance and there are many, many subwoofers that are far larger and cost WAY more that cannot match that kind of performance.

The even larger and more expensive SVSound and Epik subwoofers can play even louder and offer even lower distortion - and really, that is all that you are paying for and all that you could hope for!

At 600 sq. feet, you've got a large room. But using two subwoofers is more about getting linear response at several seats than it is about getting louder output. Of course, that is assuming that you position the two subwoofers at different locations in the room in order to gain the benefits of flatter frequency response at several locations. If you co-locate (ie. stack or put side-by-side) two subwoofers, then you are basically just making a "bigger" subwoofer and upping the output, but not doing anything to flatten the frequency response throughout the room.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
But using two subwoofers is more about getting linear response at several seats than it is about getting louder output.
But also critical is integration. Unless you cross VERY low with a steep xover, you will almost never get 'perfect' integration for music reproduction purposes, due to the substantial phase difference that is present as the subwoofer combines with the left and right channels. Place a sub dead center front wall will help correct this of course - but that is usually the worst place for a sub to be placed. Dual subs make integration very simple to achieve perfectly, assuming your active crossover(s) have sufficient adjustments, of course.

-Chris
 
T

thepoo

Enthusiast
Thank you for the informative responses.

About extension and loudness… the freq response of the PB12-NSD is pretty flat down to almost 20 Hz (about the audible limit), so it seems that two smaller PB12-NSDs (2x 12” / 2x300W) should be able to play low feqs louder and with less distortion than a single bigger PB12-Plus (12” / 425 W).
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Thank you for the informative responses.

About extension and loudness… the freq response of the PB12-NSD is pretty flat down to almost 20 Hz (about the audible limit), so it seems that two smaller PB12-NSDs (2x 12” / 2x300W) should be able to play low feqs louder and with less distortion than a single bigger PB12-Plus (12” / 425 W).
Hey, since you are very interested in SVS products why not give them a call and ask them yourself? More specifically, be sure to give them your room measurements and a general description of the layout of your room. I assure you this, SVS will answer all of your questions honestly and promptly. In fact, many here already know just how good SVS's customer service really is. For example, I was completlely blown away when Ed Mullen called me at home to help me resolve some placement issues that I was having at the time. In other words, SVS really wants you to be very happy with your purchase AND will do everything possible in making that happen. When it comes to after the sale service-No company does it any better than SVS. Good luck in your decision. ;):);)



Cheers,

Phil
 
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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Warlord
But also critical is integration. Unless you cross VERY low with a steep xover, you will almost never get 'perfect' integration for music reproduction purposes, due to the substantial phase difference that is present as the subwoofer combines with the left and right channels. Place a sub dead center front wall will help correct this of course - but that is usually the worst place for a sub to be placed. Dual subs make integration very simple to achieve perfectly, assuming your active crossover(s) have sufficient adjustments, of course.

-Chris
Don't know if you saw my "under couch subwoofer" thread, but I'm in a quandry about the same issue. I started out planning a DIY under couch sub, but I'm also considering the advantages of a pair of subs for my 2-channel system. The plan includes the aquisition of a DCX for crossover and equalization.

Annunaki has been exceedingly patient with me as he's helped me to come up with designs.

I thought I'd try building the single under couch design first and if I'm not happy with it, get another identical driver, chuck the enclosure (MDF is cheap and build a pair of small subs.

Hope I'm not hijacking the thread.:eek:
 
J

Jeff R.

Audioholic General
I would go with duals. I think the integration and flexibility you will get is a better long term investment.
 
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