Dialogue is lost in surround effects

[Talarspeed]

Looking for advice for my father who is 65. His TV is an 52" Hitachi, (not LCD or plasma); about 4 years old. His DVD player is Toshiba wired to the TV via HDMI cable.
Most of the movies have a problem with the dialogue being lost in the surround effects coming from the TV's speaker system. Words are being dropped in the "loud and cool effects". (I have spent much time trying to aleve this through the TV's menu system, but nothing seems to work)

I'm looking for a recommendation for a TIB for about $500. I know that this is not a popular request here, but let me explain. He is not an audiophile. He is not looking for loud thumping subwoofers.

Is it possible to increase the dialogue through the center channel and diminish the effects? Is there a system in mind?

Thanx!

 

[Exit]

Concerning the dialog increase, you might look for a receiver that has a “night” sound feature like my Yamaha. I have not used it, but it is supposed to reduce the dynamic range (i.e. the difference from low volume sounds to high volume sounds) so you can hear the dialog better without the special effects blowing you out of the room. I don’t know if any HTIBs have this feature.

 

[audiohonic65]

I completely agree, facing the same problem. I end up going to a movie theater to watch a movie which I really want to enjoy.

 

[m_vanmeter]

at a minimum you probably need to think about a 3.0 system. When the soundtrack is Dolby Digital 5.1 so much of the dialog is concentrated in the center speaker channel, that not having one - or trying to create a phantom center with a stereo system, just won't work for many listeners.

No need to spend huge bucks, a simple DD5.1 a/v receiver like an Onkyo SR307 or Pioneer 519 will work fine. Toslink optical cable from the DVD player to the receiver with front 3 speakers enabled in the setup menu. You can then control the level of the center channel separately to drive the dialog.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR307BLK/Onkyo/TX-SR307-5.1-Channel-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290094
and
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290022

good luck

 

[jinjuku]

What city/metropolitan area are you in. It would be worth looking through Craigslist...

Any one here could look at CL and let you know if there is anything worth chasing down.

 

[jostenmeat]

at a minimum you probably need to think about a 3.0 system. When the soundtrack is Dolby Digital 5.1 so much of the dialog is concentrated in the center speaker channel, that not having one - or trying to create a phantom center with a stereo system, just won't work for many listeners.

No need to spend huge bucks, a simple DD5.1 a/v receiver like an Onkyo SR307 or Pioneer 519 will work fine. Toslink optical cable from the DVD player to the receiver with front 3 speakers enabled in the setup menu. You can then control the level of the center channel separately to drive the dialog.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR307BLK/Onkyo/TX-SR307-5.1-Channel-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290094
and
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290022

good luck

I respectfully disagree. I think, for best dialogue intelligibility, a pair of speakers is actually better than three speakers if the center speaker is going to be a horiz mtm. OTOH, the center speaker will lock the dialogue, however unintelligible, to the display, give one the potential for a wider soundstage without imaging dropout, and greater dynamic range by avoiding compression.

But, IMO, a vertical speaker, with vertically arrayed drivers, free in space, not resonating on a shelf, or suffering other diffractions and/or reflections, without being considerably above or below the listener's ears but rather at ear level, would make for the best dialogue intelligibility. Just my subjective opinion based on limited experiences.

Also, I cannot recommend entry level Polk speakers either for dialogue intelligibility.

For $500, there are options. That's plenty of money for a basic 2.0 rig. Heck, you could possibly hook up active monitors, with money in the pocket. Or perhaps a stereo receiver, from $80-200, whether Sherwood, Pioneer, Onkyo, and add a pair of Ascend 170Se. Or PSB B15. Or a lot of other speakers besides the Polks. JMO.

 

[HDPCsound]

Choose a receiver with great sound quality, like a Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K THX it brings high-octane theater sound to typical TV rooms, for the best movie experience possible.

 

[Eternal]

I sort of have a similar problem. I live in an apartment complex with roomates, so if they are studying I need to try and keep my system turned down. At the moment I have a Denon 1910 reciever, and the EMP Impression serries 5.1 speaker system. I can turn the center channel up at night to keep the explosions down. But I wish more dialogue would carry through the two towers though.

I am going to look up if the Denon reciever has a night mode...

 

[westcott]

at a minimum you probably need to think about a 3.0 system. When the soundtrack is Dolby Digital 5.1 so much of the dialog is concentrated in the center speaker channel, that not having one - or trying to create a phantom center with a stereo system, just won't work for many listeners.

No need to spend huge bucks, a simple DD5.1 a/v receiver like an Onkyo SR307 or Pioneer 519 will work fine. Toslink optical cable from the DVD player to the receiver with front 3 speakers enabled in the setup menu. You can then control the level of the center channel separately to drive the dialog.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR307BLK/Onkyo/TX-SR307-5.1-Channel-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290094
and
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290022

good luck

I agree with your assessment. Without a center channel, it is nearly impossible to get balanced dialog and a proper soundstage, especially with Dolby Digital content. An inexpensive 5.1 reciever with do the trick.

Trying to use two channels is a poor substitute. It just only works for the perfectly centered prime seating position. Otherwise, it is a bust.

 

[jostenmeat]

I agree with your assessment. Without a center channel, it is nearly impossible to get balanced dialog and a proper soundstage, especially with Dolby Digital content. An inexpensive 5.1 reciever with do the trick.

Trying to use two channels is a poor substitute. It just only works for the perfectly centered prime seating position. Otherwise, it is a bust.

You could say the same thing for a center that is a horizontal mtm. For if you are not in the prime seating position, you suffer lobing. And since nearly all horiz mtm's have the lobing occur within the dialogue passband, due to the driver spacing and xover point chosen, the OP will suffer dialogue intelligibility.

OTOH, after reading the original post, one thing that could work with 3 speakers, is boosting the center speaker, and lowering the mains' levels.

 

[westcott]

You could say the same thing for a center that is a horizontal mtm. For if you are not in the prime seating position, you suffer lobing. And since nearly all horiz mtm's have the lobing occur within the dialogue passband, due to the driver spacing and xover point chosen, the OP will suffer dialogue intelligibility.

OTOH, after reading the original post, one thing that could work with 3 speakers, is boosting the center speaker, and lowering the mains' levels.

Lobing and phase problems are far less audible than lack of center channel content and poor staging and can happen with just about any speaker, no matter how it is aligned if it has more than one driver to reproduce sound.

Another reason I like my horns, since it is not an issue for frequencies above 2500Hz.

Lastly, most center channel speaker designs take all of this into account when designed for horizontal orientation.

 

[jostenmeat]

Lobing and phase problems are far less audible than lack of center channel content and poor staging and can happen with just about any speaker, no matter how it is aligned if it has more than one driver to reproduce sound.

The issue here, very specifically, is dialogue intelligibility. I would be one of the first to agree that one ideally would have a center speaker, all things considered. It would also ideally be the identical speaker, aligned vertically. "Lack of center channel content"? It can be downmixed to mains, and you lose nothing of the content. Not even 1%.

Poor staging has little to do with dialogue intelligibility.

Lastly, most center channel speaker designs take all of this into account when designed for horizontal orientation.

If they did, they wouldn't make a horiz mtm! This derived from purely aesthetical compromises, while staying on the cheap. The better horiz speakers are NOT mtm's, but rather WTMWs such as made by B&W or Revel, or perhaps coaxials like KEF.

Here are AH's own final results, in the attached test, Best to Worst, Lower figure is Better :

$2500 W(T/M)W Vertical
0.61

$600 MTM Vertical
0.80

$115 Bookshelf
1.01

$2500 W(T/M)W Horizontal
1.02

$250 MTM Vertical
1.19

$600 MTM Horizontal
1.62

$199 MMMM Vertical
1.6

$199 MMMM Horizontal
1.77

$250 MTM Horizontal
1.94

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/vertical-vs-horizontal-speaker-designs/conclusion-rankings-and-evaluation.html

 

[highfigh]

Looking for advice for my father who is 65. His TV is an 52" Hitachi, (not LCD or plasma); about 4 years old. His DVD player is Toshiba wired to the TV via HDMI cable.
Most of the movies have a problem with the dialogue being lost in the surround effects coming from the TV's speaker system. Words are being dropped in the "loud and cool effects". (I have spent much time trying to aleve this through the TV's menu system, but nothing seems to work)

I'm looking for a recommendation for a TIB for about $500. I know that this is not a popular request here, but let me explain. He is not an audiophile. He is not looking for loud thumping subwoofers.

Is it possible to increase the dialogue through the center channel and diminish the effects? Is there a system in mind?

Thanx!

Does he wear hearing aids? Has he had his hearing tested in the last 5 years?

You can't possibly hear the way he does, so it's futile to try. The only way he'll find what works best is to hear it for himself. If the room isn't carpeted, has lots of windows and hard surfaces, it's not going to be easy to do this. He may be better off with a 2 channel system, or by turning the surround off when he uses it.

 

[westcott]

You can't possibly hear the way he does, so it's futile to try.

His complaint is not uncommon. Many people complain that they can barely hear the dialog and if they turn it up to do so, they get blasted when the left and right channel kick in.

With all due respect Jostenmeat, if you have never expereinced this, than you are lucky, but, many people have this same problem and it is as was stated by others, a lack of a center channel and a proper surround sound receiver to properly process the signals.

 

[highfigh]

Looking for advice for my father who is 65. His TV is an 52" Hitachi, (not LCD or plasma); about 4 years old. His DVD player is Toshiba wired to the TV via HDMI cable.
Most of the movies have a problem with the dialogue being lost in the surround effects coming from the TV's speaker system. Words are being dropped in the "loud and cool effects". (I have spent much time trying to aleve this through the TV's menu system, but nothing seems to work)

I'm looking for a recommendation for a TIB for about $500. I know that this is not a popular request here, but let me explain. He is not an audiophile. He is not looking for loud thumping subwoofers.

Is it possible to increase the dialogue through the center channel and diminish the effects? Is there a system in mind?

Thanx!

What model is the TV? Does it have speaker terminals or line out? If it has speaker terminals, try connecting a pair of low priced speakers to it. The small speakers on the TV aren't going to be good for much, really. If it has line out, try connecting it to a receiver- my system is stereo and I have absolutely no problem with hearing dialog. My speakers aren't made for emphasizing any particular frequency range, either- they're 6-1/2" two-way and IMO, human voices are very natural when I watch TV (DirecTV via analog audio output).