New home, new speakers!

[Isabella.S]

Hi,

I will be moving out to a new place next month, so I'm considering getting some decent speakers to replace my old Bose (which, I've just realized, isn't as great as I once thought)

I am totally new to auidio systems, so I'd really appreciate your help on what I should get.
This whole new concept of "towers, bookshelfs, amps, preamps, subwoofers, receiver... and not to mention all the different brands and model numbers..."
is just a little overwhelming for me!

I don't want to spend too much yet, so my budget would be around $1200.
My new place will be pretty tiny. The living room is like 11' x 9'. I mostly listen to pop, vocal, hip-hop. I love bass too. Probably will use the systems for movies from time to time.

Any bright ideas? =D

- I.S.

 

[3db]

Hi,

I will be moving out to a new place next month, so I'm considering getting some decent speakers to replace my old Bose (which, I've just realized, isn't as great as I once thought)

I am totally new to auidio systems, so I'd really appreciate your help on what I should get.
This whole new concept of "towers, bookshelfs, amps, preamps, subwoofers, receiver... and not to mention all the different brands and model numbers..."
is just a little overwhelming for me!

I don't want to spend too much yet, so my budget would be around $1200.
My new place will be pretty tiny. The living room is like 11' x 9'. I mostly listen to pop, vocal, hip-hop. I love bass too. Probably will use the systems for movies from time to time.

Any bright ideas? =D

- I.S.

Welcome Isabella to the forum.

Amplfiers, pre-amps, receviers.

A receiver, particular an A/V (audio/video receiver) is the work horse for most people's Home Theater (HT) . A receiver contains an amplifier (power source to drive the loudspeakers), a pre-pro ( the logic that decodes all the latest and greatest audio codecs like Dolby Digital, DTS, and the newer audio codec,
Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio), all the video conversion, a radio tuner, and a pre-amp that amplifies the signals to a level that the power amp stage can work with before outputting the siganl to the speakers. For the budget you are considering, this is your most likely route. Most of us here use one.

Some manufactures decide to take the logic of the receiver and seperate it into two chassis. They seperate the power amp and stick into one chassis and they seperate the pre-pro logic and stick into another chassis. Its the more expensive route but it does offer more flexability in upgrading. I can go into this further if you like... but for your budget, not a likely route.

Towers, bookshelves, and subs. Bookshelves are speakers which are considerably smaller than towers. They don't have the bass response of towers or subs, usually don't play as loud (when used with out a subwoofer) as towers. If going with bookshelves, people usually augment the bass with a subwoofer. A subwoofer only plays bass, deep bass at that and it when setpup corrrectly with bookshelves makes for a most satisfying full range sound. Bookshelve/sub combos can play fairly loud. Towers are tall large speakers with much better bass response tahn bookshelves and in most cases, not as good a bass response as a subwoofer. The truly good towers with deep forcfull bass cost an arm and a leg and then some. Towers usually handle more power and can play louder than bookshelves.

In HT there are 5 to seven speakers and a sub woofer. They are the main front left/right (=2) center channel (=1) surround left/right (=2) and surround left/right back (=2) for a total of 7 speakers and add the subwoofer too. Alot of people are very happy with just 5.1 which combines the surrounds and the surround backs into one pair of speakers. Alot of people here also have 7.1 The front three are arguabbly teh most important speakers as most of the sound, action, speech come across these 3 speakers. The surrounds (lumping all 4 of them together) are to create an ambience ...say like being in a submarine like in U571 or on the inside of a tall ship (Master & Commander). It makes for a more imerssive realistic sound field.

I have a 5.1 setup becuase my room isn't overly large and I can get away with it. I have towers for the front, a dedicate center channel, and a pair of surrounds for the back. I prefer towers to bookshelves/sub when listening to music. But when I watch a movie, I tweek my AV recevier into thinking that my mains are bookshelves so that I get more bass from the sub.

I hope this helps explain some of the concepts.

Oh if you find the budget a little tight and your not in a hurry to get everything at once, one strategy is to spread out the purchase these items as the money comes in. A good plan is to get choose a good pair of left/right speakers along with your receiver. Purchase the surrounds, subwoofer (if bookshelves for your left and right front..get subwoofer first and then the surrounds) and the matching center channel (match the center channel to your left and right front speakers...i.e. same manufacturer and from teh same series from that manufacturer) .

 

[Isabella.S]

Thanks a lot, 3db, that's very informative.

I understand that $1200 is a rather tight budget (at least on this forum )
A salesperson suggested that I could use my spare computer as the "source", replacing the DVD player / receiver; and get an amp + speakers.
According to him, a standard computer is probably equal or better than most DVD players under $500.
Another bonus is that I can easily play my computer music.
Does this make any sense?
(pre-amp + power-amp combo is probably out of my budget)

For speakers, I think I'll skip the surrounds. Question is, tower or tower+sub or bookshelf+sub?

From what I get from your advice is:
Tower (vs bookshelf) = more expensive, better overall range but mediocre bass compared with bookshelf+sub, excellent for music, and good for large rooms

My feeling is, if I had a lot of money, tower+sub will be perfect. However, given my budget, is bookshelf+sub a better option (better sounds with same money)?

 

[adk highlander]

There are some great deals on a new line of speakers from EMP going on right now. The towers are on special for $400 and the sub for $300 so that would put you in for $700 and shipping is free. Sub link, Speaker link. With this deal you are basically getting the sub for free.

For a receiver you have $500 left so there are many choices from Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo or Marantz. For example this Yamaha RX-v665 is on sale for 499. Link

That would put you right on budget and would be a very nice system.

 

[audioholic212]

I understand that $1200 is a rather tight budget (at least on this forum

Trust me, that is exactly what I thought when I started in this forum, but, that that is not true. Most people in this forum can get you exactly what you are looking for. And they are very helpful. Like the signature of one of the member says, 'budget hunt' your way to a monster system.

 

[audioholic212]

There are some great deals on a new line of speakers from EMP going on right now.

I got this deal. Here are my pictures of the system I bought. You may want the 5.1 system yourself.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=625873&postcount=68

Good luck. We are glad you are here.

 

[Imitation]

There are some great deals on a new line of speakers from EMP going on right now. The towers are on special for $400 and the sub for $300 so that would put you in for $700 and shipping is free. With this deal you are basically getting the sub for free.

For a receiver you have $500 left so there are many choices from Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo or Marantz. For example this Yamaha RX-v665 is on sale for 499.

That would put you right on budget and would be a very nice system.

Those EMP towers are a pretty good deal IMO, I just purchased the towers and I'm probly ordering the center today since I got wife approval. Only had to consent to painting the room first! Truthfully you can probably do better with the same money by going with a different brand sub, but if you need it to match the glossy red burl or black on the towers, I'm sure it will do fine in your smaller room.

On receiver, I personally have a yamaha 1800 that handles these speakers very well, but that's out of your price range. Teh 665 would work fine, but if you want an even cheaper option, you can probably find the onkyo 606 online for <400. I would suggest staying away from anything lower end then that though.

 

[3db]

Thanks a lot, 3db, that's very informative.

I understand that $1200 is a rather tight budget (at least on this forum )
A salesperson suggested that I could use my spare computer as the "source", replacing the DVD player / receiver; and get an amp + speakers.
According to him, a standard computer is probably equal or better than most DVD players under $500.
Another bonus is that I can easily play my computer music.
Does this make any sense?
(pre-amp + power-amp combo is probably out of my budget)

For speakers, I think I'll skip the surrounds. Question is, tower or tower+sub or bookshelf+sub?

From what I get from your advice is:
Tower (vs bookshelf) = more expensive, better overall range but mediocre bass compared with bookshelf+sub, excellent for music, and good for large rooms

My feeling is, if I had a lot of money, tower+sub will be perfect. However, given my budget, is bookshelf+sub a better option (better sounds with same money)?

For music, I'd prefer towers over bookshelves and sub but thats just a personal preference. I live in Canada and us poor Canucks do not have access to some of the crazy specials my American counterparts are privy too. It appears that there are some good deals mentioned. You will needd to sit down and audition speakers for yourself to determine what sounds best to you.

 

[krzywica]

There are some great deals on a new line of speakers from EMP going on right now. The towers are on special for $400 and the sub for $300 so that would put you in for $700 and shipping is free. Sub link, Speaker link. With this deal you are basically getting the sub for free.

For a receiver you have $500 left so there are many choices from Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo or Marantz. For example this Yamaha RX-v665 is on sale for 499. Link

That would put you right on budget and would be a very nice system.

I received my EMP towers and center Saturday and I am pretty happy with the purchase thus far. I was impressed with the fullness that the towers provide and honestly could not tell a difference if I had my sub on or off with most music.

I will be updating my signature with current pictures when I get home, and will also be doing a mini review. I cannot however recommend the Yamaha 665, my friend got one as I assumed it would be a newer better version of my 663 but the amplification section is quite wimpy in comparison.

 

[JerryLove]

A salesperson suggested that I could use my spare computer as the "source", replacing the DVD player / receiver; and get an amp + speakers.

I think it's bad advice for a neophyte.

In addition to to complexity that can be had in the setup: how many audio channels does your old PC put out? Can it handle decoding and outputting to HD? Does it have an HD output that can be converted? Does it decode DTS? Do you have a remote? Adding one can be expesive (relative to the cost of a DVD player)? What about more inputs? Does your computer have audio inputs for all your sources? What about video inputs?

For DVDs, you can either pick up a very reasonable new or an excellent used unit for $50 or less. If you want BluRay, that will obviously kick into your budget.

A referb or used AVR similarly can be had for a couple hundred dollars (separate 5-channel amps aren't cheap).

According to him, a standard computer is probably equal or better than most DVD players under $500.

Don't ever take his advice. He's dead wrong. (and that might get me some flame, but the best you are going to be able to hope for is on par with a good up-converting DVD player that can be had for less than $150 (heck, you can go BluRay at that price). I don't agree that his "probably equal" caveat saves his claim)

Another bonus is that I can easily play my computer music.

Go ahead and add the computer as a music source to your new AVR.

For speakers, I think I'll skip the surrounds. Question is, tower or tower+sub or bookshelf+sub?

Well. If you've just spent $350 on an AVR and DVD, you have about a $750 budget for 3 speakers (plus possible sub). A lot can be done in that. I'll leave it to others to suggest specific speaker configurations.

Tower (vs bookshelf) = more expensive, better overall range but mediocre bass compared with bookshelf+sub, excellent for music, and good for large rooms

Bookshelf + sub for home-theater. Best bang for buck when going surround sound. Perhaps not best for 2-channel audio.

 

[fredk]

You're getting good advice here. My $.02

Bookshelf vs tower. Bookshelves give you a little more placement flexibility, particularly if the are a sealed or front ported design. This would allow for wall mounting or shelf placement.

Spending the same amount on bookshelves as a floorstander should also get you a little better sounding speaker at the cost of some bass. I don't consider this an issue if you get a sub (which is essential for movies).

In your space, I would personally start off with a decent pair of bookshelves and a sub. You can build a complete HT system from there if you want. You can always move the bookshelves to surround duties if you decide you want to move to a tower.

If you think you want to eventually set up a full HT, make sure whatever speakers you choose have a matching center available. It is very important for the fronts and center to be properly matched so you get a seamless soundstage for moves.

Good luck.

 

[krzywica]

You're getting good advice here. My $.02

Bookshelf vs tower. Bookshelves give you a little more placement flexibility, particularly if the are a sealed or front ported design. This would allow for wall mounting or shelf placement.

Spending the same amount on bookshelves as a floorstander should also get you a little better sounding speaker at the cost of some bass. I don't consider this an issue if you get a sub (which is essential for movies).

In your space, I would personally start off with a decent pair of bookshelves and a sub. You can build a complete HT system from there if you want. You can always move the bookshelves to surround duties if you decide you want to move to a tower.

If you think you want to eventually set up a full HT, make sure whatever speakers you choose have a matching center available. It is very important for the fronts and center to be properly matched so you get a seamless soundstage for moves.

Good luck.

Good advice. I too would recommend bookshelves and a sub with no center. This is predicated on the assumption that you will not have off axis viewing positions. This will save a lot of money that can be spent on the bookshelves+sub.

I also agree that for someone new to the A/V scene it is a VERY BAD idea to make a PC your primary source. And I back that up with years of experience both supporting and owning HTPC's. I'm a computer engineer and I recently ditched my High end HTPC for a network media player because I just got sick and tired of monkeying around with it all the time. Just take the advice here and get a cheap upconverting DVD player or a cheap bluray player.

 

[Soundman]

If I were buying speakers on a budget right now, I would go for the EMP deal. That deal is redefining what "value" is, IMO.

 

[shadyJ]

I like the EMP towers, but I think the sub is pretty weak. I would go with a sub from a different company, especially if, as you claim, you love bass. I would look at subs from Hsu research, SVS, Elemental Designs, and Outlaw Audio. They all have good subs in your price range. Outlaw has a great sale going on now, but it ends in two days. Hsu Research has a sale on the VTF1 subs right now too, on the finer finishes. I think an espresso VTF1 would look and sound great with a couple EMP Impression towers. Hsu also has a sale on their bookshelf speakers, which are terrific.

For receivers, I would look to Accessories4less.com for great deals. Audioholics also has some good deals for recievers too. You can get a stereo receiver if you only intend to have 2 speakers, or a surround sound receiver if you ever want to have the option of upgrading to a full home theater. I think you can get something really good either way for 3 to 4 hundred there, or even a bit less.

You don't have to settle for middling components for 1200, I think that some EMP towers, a Outlaw or Hsu sub, and a beefy Onkyo receiver will make all your friends envious once they hear it, and enraged with jealousy once they hear it.

 

[Isabella.S]

Thank you guys, you're amazing

1. AV/DVD player
Guess I'll forget about my PC as source. So here goes ~$300 for a DVD player and a receiver. Leaving me ~$900 for the rest.

2. Speakers

Can I conclude that, generally speaking, given my modest budget, if I spend the same amount of money on bookshelfs + sub, I'll get decent sound and better bass (assuming that I won't have the money to buy a sub if I go towers), plus the flexibility to move the bookshelfs to surrounds in the future?

Though, I have to say, the tower speakers look really cool =)
Plus, from what I read here, they are better when it comes to music.
And I heard that I'll need to get stands for bookshelfs too. So that will take away some of my budget.

So if I can get a pair of tower speakers with $<900 that can give me some decent bass, I think that will make a good option too.


The salesperson recommended some speakers to me.
KEF IQ series
Behringer 2031p / 2031a paired with some subwoofer I forgot the name of
and some more.. Are they any good?

It's a pity that I am not in the States, so the EMP is not an option for me

 

[fredk]

Though, I have to say, the tower speakers look really cool =)
Plus, from what I read here, they are better when it comes to music

I think it depends what towers and what bookselves.

I did a comparison of two sets of speakers from Axiom and found that the M22 bookshelf + sub sounded almost identical to the M60 with the exeption that the bookself/sub combo had deeper bass. From that I conclude that you can get identacally good sound for music from a speaker/sub combo.

Some people prefer to listen to music strictly 2.0 and in that instance there is no substitute for a good tower.

Where are you located?

 

[Isabella.S]

OK, I've made up my mind, bookshelves.

Can you guys give me some brands / models so I can go and have a listen later?

From what I've read on this forum, Wharfedale 10.x, Evo 8, Behringer 2030, Mission M5, KEF IQ all seem to be good choices.
What would you advise?

- I.S.

 

[lsiberian]

Thank you guys, you're amazing

1. AV/DVD player
Guess I'll forget about my PC as source. So here goes ~$300 for a DVD player and a receiver. Leaving me ~$900 for the rest.

2. Speakers

Can I conclude that, generally speaking, given my modest budget, if I spend the same amount of money on bookshelfs + sub, I'll get decent sound and better bass (assuming that I won't have the money to buy a sub if I go towers), plus the flexibility to move the bookshelfs to surrounds in the future?

Though, I have to say, the tower speakers look really cool =)
Plus, from what I read here, they are better when it comes to music.
And I heard that I'll need to get stands for bookshelfs too. So that will take away some of my budget.

So if I can get a pair of tower speakers with $<900 that can give me some decent bass, I think that will make a good option too.


The salesperson recommended some speakers to me.
KEF IQ series
Behringer 2031p / 2031a paired with some subwoofer I forgot the name of
and some more.. Are they any good?

It's a pity that I am not in the States, so the EMP is not an option for me

If you have a sub I suggest a pair 2030p They are less than 150 a pair from zzounds.com. They are the best speaker in their class for build quality. Don't get the 2031a's the amps in them are bad to put it kindly.

The next step up from those are these
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html

Also excellent build quality. Up from there you start into speakers beyond your budget.

There are other options out there, but I'd rate those 2 as the most solid choices in your budget.

I suggest you get dual subs and use them as stands for your bookshelves. This will give you a lot of benefits.
http://svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm is the sub I suggest.

$450 each

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMP-BD60-Blu-ray-Player-Black/dp/B001V9LA44/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1255389130&sr=8-1

is a really good deal for a blu-ray player and play's CDs too!

$130


http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR576/Onkyo/Tx-sr576-7.1-channel-Home-Theater-Receiver-Black/1.html

is a good receiver deal and it would give you what you need if you wanted to do surround sound later on.

$250


Before you buy anything do us a favor and check out craigslist for deals.

 

[fredk]

I don't know lsiberian, there are a lot of choices out there.

Isabella. If you do a search on bookshelf in the title, there are a few threads that come up with suggestions of good bookshelves. Usher has come up. You can also probably find a PSB dealer fairly easily.

One thing to consider with the Behrngers is that they are a studio monitor so there is no matching center. If you ever want to move to 5.1 that may become an issue. If you can fit another 2030 into your setup as a center then there are no worries.

 

[lsiberian]

I don't know lsiberian, there are a lot of choices out there.

Isabella. If you do a search on bookshelf in the title, there are a few threads that come up with suggestions of good bookshelves. Usher has come up. You can also probably find a PSB dealer fairly easily.

One thing to consider with the Behrngers is that they are a studio monitor so there is no matching center. If you ever want to move to 5.1 that may become an issue. If you can fit another 2030 into your setup as a center then there are no worries.

You can lay it on it's side for a center and get as good of response as any center at this price point, but aesthetics are the biggest turn off for me. I'd prefer the Ascends myself.

If she can go on craigslist and do a look up of all the brands lister here she might make out like a bandit. I saw a full KEF iQ set for only 500 on my craiglist a few months back.

I don't think you can really go wrong with any suggestions I've seen.

Energy, KEF, Behringer, Ascend Acoustics, PSB, Usher, even Yamaha are worth a used search.