How does one deal with an oddly shaped room?

[Chopper Greg]

That misunderstanding stems from the olden days when "surround sound" was a mono rear speaker.

Today, for a long time now in fact, all of the necessary surround cues are already embedded in the HT tracks themselves. Therefore, to get this is accurately as possible, you NEED the speakers firing at the listeners. When speakers are very off-axis, you no longer receive accurate freq response. All of the work that the sound engineers did for you is all for naught.

snip

Side surround speaker is not necessarily meant to be behind you. In fact, for best side envelopment, directly beside you at 90 degrees is best. The reason why people have more obtuse angles with 5.1 side surrounds is as a compromise between side surround and rear phantom imaging. If for instance, you had 7.1, you could have both.

If I put the speaker, right on the corner where the wall ends, it will be about even with the listeners knees - if what you say is correct, then it will not be so bad.

I guess the only question I have left is " How high up should the speakers be placed ? " - What I have read is that the speaker should be placed about 2-3 ft above listening position - is this correct or more stuff to ignore?

 

[jostenmeat]

If I put the speaker, right on the corner where the wall ends, it will be about even with the listeners knees - if what you say is correct, then it will not be so bad.

I guess the only question I have left is " How high up should the speakers be placed ? " - What I have read is that the speaker should be placed about 2-3 ft above listening position - is this correct or more stuff to ignore?

Ideal is to have tweeters at ear level. 2-3 ft above is not ear level. Whatever the final height is, make sure the tweeters are aimed at the listener's ears.

The "2-3 ft above listening position" is one of the prominent misunderstandings I was trying to address in my previous post. Now, if you have high seat backs, or anything that's blocking the audio with ear level surrounds, then of course you'd want to raise them. But like I said, make sure to angle them to be on-axis.

Listener's knee level is just too low. If it HAS to be that low, again, angle them.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Here's an old thread about some panels I made. I moved on to GIK Elites after that. Room treatment was the biggest improvement I have ever made in my system. My wife made me take them down after we redid the living room, system hasn't sounded as good sense then...

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39835&highlight=acoustic+panels

Make my own ---- I like that idea.
I don't mind a little DIY, where might I find some more info about making them myself?

?

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks Dawg, I totally forgot about addressing that request of the OP's.

Here is a video that nibhaz had embedded for us before.

"There are some pics of the finshed product in this thread."

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=587520#post587520

 

[Chopper Greg]

Ideal is to have tweeters at ear level. 2-3 ft above is not ear level. Whatever the final height is, make sure the tweeters are aimed at the listener's ears.

snip

Listener's knee level is just too low. If it HAS to be that low, again, angle them.

When I say even with knees, I'm not talking about their hight off of the floor -but the farthest along the wall ( that they can be mounted ), before the wall ends and the kitchen begins.

As for mounting them so the tweeters are at the same level as the ears, they will end up being mounted so low, that my kids might crack their heads against them coming around the corner ( then it doesn't matter how good they sound, I will be hearing sounds of a different sort ).

Let me ask you this, as most speakers that I see are built so they mount that go directly on the wall, so do they make mounts that go on the wall that then let you angle the speaker and it will hold in position?


In some ways, the more I learn about how speakers should be positioned, the more unhappy I become about what I'm stuck with. I am starting to get the feeling that even ' good ' sound may be beyond my reach with what I have to work with ( at least with traditional methods ).

Just how well do ceiling mounted speakers work for HT?

What about the possibility of having multiple smaller speakers in the side surround positions in place of the normal bookshelf type to spread out the pattern better? As one end of the couch is very close to the one wall and the other end of the couch is several feet from the opposing wall, I'm now thinking that I'm going need some way of spreading the sound out a little, rather than having a speaker playing right directly into the ear of the person sitting closest to the wall ( or is this even going to be an issue? ).

I really appreciate the assist on this - I am going see about getting you some cold drinks when this is done!

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Inceilings work well for surrounds IMO. Are they as good as enclosed speakers in the perfect position...probably not but hey, we all live in the real world so we must deal with that. I use inceilings for my surrounds and I am quite pleased with them.

I also use inceilings in my bedroom and they work great for that.

 

[Chopper Greg]

Ok, so how then does one select in ceiling speakers acting in side surround capacity to go with / match your front ( L,R & C ) and rear speakers, and what are the criteria for placing their location and angles?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

If they are just for movies, then don't even worry about timbre matching, surrounds just are not that important.

If you are running 5.1 (which is all most people need) mount them across from the mains and about 2-3 ft behind you. I angle my woofers to fire to the back wall vs to the listening area.

 

[Chopper Greg]

While movies are the main focus. While I have no system now, although at one point in the past I did listen to a fair amount of classical and soundtracks, and once I have something to listen to, I will probably use it..

I might have to play with the angle a bit, as the ceiling, is a cathedral ceiling and ramps up in the direction of the wall that will hold the TV, and will be around 7-8 ft above the listening point.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

My ceilings are 14ft and it is fine. When I say music vs. movies, I mean do you listen to DVD-A or SACD. I like music in 2.0 or 2.1 and think 5.1 or 7.1 is best suited for movies.

That being said, I can put in a DVD-A of Pink Floyd and blow you away even though I have inceilings for surrounds.

 

[Chopper Greg]

There in is probably a fair part of the problem - I am trying to get 7.1 for watching movies.

I have a decent back wall for the rears and a wall for the fronts - but trying to figure the side surrounds has had me stuck.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

If you are running a good pair of backs, then the surrounds in the ceiling will be more than fine. I would save money and run a 5.1 but it's up to you.

 

[jostenmeat]

When I say even with knees, I'm not talking about their hight off of the floor -but the farthest along the wall ( that they can be mounted ), before the wall ends and the kitchen begins.

As for mounting them so the tweeters are at the same level as the ears, they will end up being mounted so low, that my kids might crack their heads against them coming around the corner ( then it doesn't matter how good they sound, I will be hearing sounds of a different sort ).

Let me ask you this, as most speakers that I see are built so they mount that go directly on the wall, so do they make mounts that go on the wall that then let you angle the speaker and it will hold in position?


In some ways, the more I learn about how speakers should be positioned, the more unhappy I become about what I'm stuck with. I am starting to get the feeling that even ' good ' sound may be beyond my reach with what I have to work with ( at least with traditional methods ).

Just how well do ceiling mounted speakers work for HT?

What about the possibility of having multiple smaller speakers in the side surround positions in place of the normal bookshelf type to spread out the pattern better? As one end of the couch is very close to the one wall and the other end of the couch is several feet from the opposing wall, I'm now thinking that I'm going need some way of spreading the sound out a little, rather than having a speaker playing right directly into the ear of the person sitting closest to the wall ( or is this even going to be an issue? ).

I really appreciate the assist on this - I am going see about getting you some cold drinks when this is done!

Ah yes, I see your issue now. Yes, there are speaker mounts. Some companies like Ascend sell their own, and are very easy to install. Otherwise, for "universal" types, I like OmniMount, but you must get the highest weight rating you can. (Cause they're all over-rated I think).

I would just put em on the back wall then. You'll still be happy methinks. Or do as the dawg, and perhaps some in-ceilings. You've been getting good speaker advice in your other thread, btw, and I also agree that it's best to concentrate on the front stage. Whether that means 2 for starters, or the front 3. +90% of all the audio you will ever hear will come from there, and well over 99% of the dialogue as well.