Can't Decide on Home Theater Setup...

[kuko92]

Hello I am new to Audioholics. I am really having a hard time deciding on a Home Theater Setup to go with. My room is small...11 by 12 by 8 ft high...its a bedroom so can be completely inclosed...distance from tv about 10 Ft. I have glued down wood floors on concrete slab...but am planning to do a lot of carpet matting to help acoustics? (Not sure about how much that will help either?) I have been researching about a month now...been to best buy about 3 times to listen in the Magnolia room. Originally I was trying to stay at $1000...but from what I seem to want thats gone up to $1,500-$2,000. No matter what I get its going to be a million times better than my $250 Samsung HTIB...but I still want the best I can get for the money. A couple of issues I'm debating are: 1) Do I really need a $500-$700 FRONT FIRING sub because of my wood floor? I am a bass junky...so if it'll make a significant improvement I will go for it...and 2) Do the front speakers really need to be bigger than the surrounds? Best Buy said it would be better because if not both front and rear would sound the same and rear is supposed to be quieter...idk. Anyway...I want a 5.1 system...speakers I would like to keep under 7 or 8 inches deep so they don't protrude too much from my new samsung 46" LED )) which I love....so not many bookshelves will work. Will be hooked up to Blu Ray with DTS HD and True HD. I do about 70 % blu ray movies and 30% music. Before you guys think I am leaving the work to you...here is what I have narrowed it down to...but if you guys have a better setup...feel free to tell me! All the following pricing is from vanns.com so no tax or shipping needed.

Setup 1 Denon 1610 reciever (5 Channel-75watts Per Channel) $380.
Klipsch Quintet SL (80hz-23Khz/ 3/4" Tweeter/ single 3 1/2" Woofer on sats.(91dB Sensetivity)double on Fronts and Center(93dB sensetivity)$400
Klipsch XW-300D Sub (8" 300RMS 1200W Dynamic 22-120hz) $700
Total $1480

Setup 2 Same Denon 1610 Reciever $380
Polk RM85 5.0 Pack (95hz-24Khz overall/ 1/2" Tweet & 2 1/2" Woof on Sats...3/4" Tweet & Dual 2 1/2" Woof on Fronts and Center(89dB)) $500
Polk DSWPro500 (10" 23hz-160hz) $560
Total $1440

Setup 3 Same Denon 1610 Reciever $380
Klipsch S3 speakers (Dual 1" Tweets & Dual 6 1/2" Tractrix Horns & 6 1/2 Woof on Sats and Fronts(65hz-23Khz)...1" Tweet & 6 1/2" Tractrix Horn & Dual 6 1/2" Woofs on Center (73hz-23Khz) 93.5dB Sensetivity)) $560
Same Klipsch XW-300D Sub $700

Setup 4 Same Denon 1610 Reciever $380
(4)Def Tech ProMonitor 800 (57hz-30khz) 1" Tweet & Dual*(1 Passive*) 4 1/2" Mids(89dB Sensetivity)) $580
Def Tech ProCenter 1000 (47hz-30Khz) 1" Tweet & Quad*(2 Passive) 4 1/2" Mids(90dB Sensetivity)) $220
Def Tech SuperCube III (Dual*(1 Passive*) 8" 650w 16hz-200hz) $700
Total 1880.00

Thats what I have so far...idk if I am going to get laughed at...just now learning about "real" audio systems. Anyway...to me the Def Tech seems the best...and I hard that setup at Magnolia...vry nice. I would just get the ProCinema 800 Package if your wondering why its cuz it brings a downfiring sub which I don't want if its bad for wood flooring. As for as for the reciever...everyone has had good things to say and I really don't need a 7.1 reciever...the step up would be the 1910...with 90 watts per channel but with such a small room and no need for the extra two channels I'd rather spend the $200 difference on speakers and subs...or am I wrong? Anyway...would REEEALLy appreciate any advice. I don't know whether to compromise dB sensetivity for frequency response or tweeter size for mid size...pretty lost right now. Thanks in advance and sorry about the long *** post haha.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would be perfectly okay if you got 5 great identical bookshelf speakers + 1 or 2 great subs.

Those morons at Best Buy don't know anything.

Sometimes I go there just to make them look bad because they usually don't know what the heck they are talking about.

In fact for your small room, I would recommend 5 identical bookshelf speakers + 1 subwoofer.

I'm not a DefTech fanboy or anything like that , but I've heard enough of their speakers to recommend them. Whichever speakers sound the best to you is the right choice - regardless of brand - well, okay, except for Bose.

 

[kuko92]

Thanks for that advice. I would rather they be all the same anyway. Looks way better I think. As far as the different setups I posted what would you recommend?...I see your a Def Tech guy..? I have no complaints on them...I heard the exact setup at Best Buy and sounded great...not sure if you could help me out with the frequency response vs sensetivity...and downfiring vs front firing on wood floor dilemna?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

DefTech package

ProMonitor 800 x 5 = $725:

http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Technology-ProMonitor-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B000TD6QLK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1253719569&sr=8-1

ProSub 1000 = $500:

http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Technology-ProSub-Speaker-Single/dp/B000TD8XO8/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1253719680&sr=1-8

Denon 1610 = $379:

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR1610-5-1-Channel-Receiver-Connectivity/dp/B002AKKF3U/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1253719796&sr=1-6



Total = $1,604 (no taxes, free shipping from Amazon).

 

[njedpx3]

Some ideas and suggestions

I like your option 4 with Def Techs, except I would get a different subwoofer. Look at SVS they make excellent front firing ( I am not sure how much a botton firing would hurt on a wood floor though). The SVS PB12-NSD for $569 would be a better subwoofer IMHO. http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-isd.cfm

I actually have two Def Tech systems now. the older one has 2006s and a Procenter 1000, prosub 100. The 4 surrounds are cheap Sony 3000 speakers but it is a game system = Xbox. Xbox/360, PS2, PS3, Wii

The newer upgraded system has 7002s, 3000, SVS PB12-Plus and 4 BP UPA surrounds. LOL I didn't have room for the surround/rear speakers except in the ceiling.

------

I would look for other HT stores in your area and audition more speakers if you can. Magnolia is Best Buy's best, but you might want to compare some other higher end speaker systems.

------

Initially, you can get by with just fronts. add a matching center to maintain timbre (seamless front sound) especially if you want watch TV and movies--the center provides dialog. Subs and surrounds can be added later.

Concerning speakers, the ideal system from a true audiophile purist standpoint is 5 or 7 matching speakers. However, this is an expensive solution $$$ because you most important and most prominent speakers are your fronts. Many people compromise slightly to get a cost effective system. Spend most money on fronts then center then sub and then get smaller surrounds. Because surrounds provide mainly enhancement and getting smaller saves lots of $$$.

-------------------
Just for grins, since you like the sound of Def Tech go to a home theater store in your area, go listen to some Def Tech Towers. ....and some other comparably priced tower speakers.

Also, to complicate things further listen to a system with 4 or 5 Paradigm Atoms with a sub.


Good Luck!

Forest Man.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

NHT package

NHT AbsoluteZero = $149 x 5 = $745

http://www.amazon.com/NHT-N-AZB-Absolute-Speaker-Black/dp/B000BYNP7K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1253719944&sr=1-2

NHT Classic Ten Subwoofer = $399

http://www.amazon.com/NHT-N-10B-Classic-Subwoofer-Black/dp/B000BYR8TG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1253720870&sr=1-1


Denon 1610 = $379:

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR1610-5-1-Channel-Receiver-Connectivity/dp/B002AKKF3U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1253720954&sr=1-1


Total = $1,523 (free shipping Amazon, no taxes)

 

[kuko92]

Thanks Forrest Man. And to the Def Tech Guy ...you think that NHT setup will sound better than my Def Tec Setup?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks for that advice. I would rather they be all the same anyway. Looks way better I think. As far as the different setups I posted what would you recommend?...I see your a Def Tech guy..? I have no complaints on them...I heard the exact setup at Best Buy and sounded great...not sure if you could help me out with the frequency response vs sensetivity...and downfiring vs front firing on wood floor dilemna?

Sensitivity of ~ 90dB w/m is the usual standard.
A sensitivity of 89dB w/m means that it requires 1 Watt of power to produce a sound level of 89dB from a distance of 1 meter (3 ft) away.
In other words, I wouldn't worry about it.

Frequency response - keep in mind that DefTech (for some dumb a$$ reasons) like to post the "overall" frequency response, which makes absolutely no sense. You have to call them or email them to get the standard +/- 3dB frequency response. If they say that the ProMonitor 800 has a FR of 57 Hz - 30 kHz, that probably translates to 100 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB. So I would set the receiver to SMALL speakers with the Crossover at 120 Hz to be safe.

I've always used front-firing subwoofers, and I've always used carpeting.

 

[AVRat]

Skip those subs and go for an SVS PB10-NSD: http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

 

[hewlett123]

Wow, your requirements are right on target with mine. Perhaps I should wait until I earn another 400-600 to make it up to 1500. I was looking to keep it at 1000 as well. I did start a thread in the Audiophytes forum but I may just leech some of the good information here.

From a lurker, thanks all and thanks: kuko92

Edit:
AVRat, what do you think of BASH? I had a bash sub (Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultra's for my PC) and supposedly (my set is slowly dying) the BASH chip is prone to failure how is their other stuff?
(I don't mean to threadsteal I am just looking to supplement why you chose to suggest the SVS PB10-NSD)

 

[kuko92]

Thanks for the heads up deftec guy on the response of the def tecspeakers....I was speculative from the smart because 57hz is pretty low for such a small inexpensive speaker. I got a few other questions....most importantly the sub....I reely need someone to tell me that a downfiring sub will be ok with wood floor or that it will suck and I should get a front firing....like I said I'm a bass junky and need my response and power when I want it. Second qquestion...def tec guy especially.....all equal speakers?....even the center?....I ws under the impression that at least the center should be a little bigger....most of the movies and music(aka dialogue and vocals) put the most pressure on the center....should it be bigger?....and another for def tec guy...you recommend the klipsch 1000 I believe over the supercube 3..any reeson in specific?.....keep in mind the wood floor situation...is it price? Quality?....and one last question....NHT vs Def Tec?

 

[njedpx3]

Agree with AVRat about SVS sub

Skip those subs and go for an SVS PB10-NSD: http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

SVS subs rock, for what you were going to spend you could get the bigger SVS PB12-NSD sub.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

DefTech Sub +/-3dB bass limit

Definitive SuperCube III - 29 Hz

Definitive ProSub 1000 - 29 Hz

Definitive ProSub 800 - 32 Hz

Definitive SuperCube Trinity - 16 Hz

Definitive SC Reference - 18 hz

Definitive SuperCube I - 20 hz

Definitive SuperCube II - 25 Hz

Here is a funny website I made up - good for some laughs.

http://www.freewebs.com/acudeftechguy/preampsspeakers.htm

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...all equal speakers?....even the center?....I was under the impression that at least the center should be a little bigger....most of the movies and music(aka dialogue and vocals) put the most pressure on the center....should it be bigger?....

Yes, same size even the center. I believe Gene (president of Audioholics) made a similar recommendation about getting 5 identical speakers.

...you recommend the klipsch 1000 I believe over the supercube 3..any reeson in specific?.....keep in mind the wood floor situation...is it price? Quality?....and one last question....NHT vs Def Tec?

Actually I said the DefTech ProSub 1000, not Klipsch.

Both the DefTech ProSub 1000 & the DefTech SC-3 have the same +/-3dB Bass response -- 29 Hz.

Before going all-DefTech, I owned a NHT SuperZero (bookshelf) + SW2P subwoofer for 10 yrs --- smaller than the current NHT system I listed. The sound was fantastic.

So personally for the lower price, I would go for the NHT.

If I were going for something more expensive, I would take 5 DefTech StudioMonitor 450s + 1 DefTech Trinity.

But for the DISCOUNTED price of the NHT AbsoluteZero + Classic Ten Sub, I would favor this over most systems out there, including the more expensive DefTech ProMonitor 800 + ProSub 1000.

One thing I lOVE about buying DIRECTLY from amazon (not 3rd party purchase) is that I get free Returns if it does not work out.

 

[kuko92]

Wow most of what I had heard previously leaned towards a bigger center channel. So you recommend the NHT system...I definetly trust your judgement over mine...only downside is 7.25" deep NHT speakers ...vs Def Tech 800s which are only 5". Also one of you guys recommended SVS 12" sub...I wanted to get the entire SVS speaker pack...I beliebe SBS 01...? but decided the fronts and rears were TOO big. Almost 9" deep I believe. So how would a SVS 12" compare against a NHT 12" Sub...?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Wow most of what I had heard previously leaned towards a bigger center channel. So you recommend the NHT system...I definetly trust your judgement over mine...only downside is 7.25" deep NHT speakers ...vs Def Tech 800s which are only 5". Also one of you guys recommended SVS 12" sub...I wanted to get the entire SVS speaker pack...I beliebe SBS 01...? but decided the fronts and rears were TOO big. Almost 9" deep I believe. So how would a SVS 12" compare against a NHT 12" Sub...?

I would take the SVS sub anyday.

But they also cost more.

The entire SVS package would also be great.

But before you take the plunge, make absolute sure on the RETURN policy!!!

Can you return the speakers without a penalty re-stocking fee or pay your own shipping?

Best Buy might just MATCH the price from Amazon -- if you talk to one of the managers - not the lowly workers.
And I believe you can return the speakers without problem -- but just ask to make sure.

Amazon -- I've never had a problem with returning their products with Free shipping. I've bought hundreds of things from amazon in the past. I've returned at least 15 items to amazon in the past - like 5 or 6 in the past year. Just make sure the prodcut is sold & ship by amazon, not from some 3rd party.

Aperion Audio speakers is another company that gives you Free Shipping to you and Free shipping back to them if you do not like their speakers in 30 days.

Price vs Size vs Return policy.

How big is too big for you. I prefer as big as possible. You can't defy the laws of physics.

 

[kuko92]

Ok so I would get a 12" SVS sub from SVS directly I guess? No place else to get them cheaper? ...and the NHT speakers...but...question...the Def Tec 800are 5 dollars cheaper than the NHT speakers. When you said it was a value did you mean that for the same price the NHT are a better speaker than the Def Tec...like you have probably noticed I would like as little protrusion into the room as possible without sacrificing audio quality so...could you give me a little better comparison if you can based on your experience with the NHT and if you have any with the Def Tecs?

 

[kuko92]

Well I think I would mount the speakers on standalone shelves(I have a custom woodworking company and can make my own to match the furniture)...I would reallly hate to go more than 8" on the shelf...and what would you recommend from Aperion? how would they match up vs the NHT and Vs the DefTecs? Sorry about the previous response I hadn't see your response yet

 

[kuko92]

I see the NHT Absolute Zero on NHT.com has frequency response of 71hz-20Khz...is that "true"response as you said or is that wrong as well...just trying to compare Def Tech to NHT to Aperion...and the aperion says 120hz-20khz...the SVS Sats are 68hz-20Khz +-3dB...but they are too deep...9 and a half inches...don't think I want to do that.

 

[kuko92]

Also I think I am set on the SVS sub...I kinda like the PC12-NSD cylinder sub. Any experts on SVS out there? How does it compare to the PB12-NSD Box sub...I like the design of the cylinder but if box is better box it is.