I got my Marantz 6003 - Need Speakers

[stl1cjg]

Just got my Marantz 6003 AVR and looking to add speakers. A couple questions to ask here. I have auditioned Klipsch RF's and RB's, PAradigm Studios MOnitor 9, Studio 60, 100, and S4's, Def Techs (can't remember), Monitor Audio, and a few other box store speakers.

Needless to say The S4's blew me away. They imaged like nothing I have ever heard. I tried to focus on each speaker to see what sound was coming out of it, but could never distinguish, Awsome to say the least! AND SO WAS THE PRICE. The one thing that I should note is that I was listening to music on most auditions and the Digms were powered with stuff I have no budget for....Macintosh stuff.

The Klipsch RF 63 sounded well, but lacked bass. The salesman took me to a dedicated home theater and we wtached the into to Ironman. From the first explosion I jumped out of my seat. Sounded awesome. He later told me that I was listening to RB-81's.

The local AMC uses Klipsch Reference speakers....with one note. The last 2 times I have been to this AMC, I must have been sitting right where a horn was pointing. It was uncomfortably loud, treble, bright, tinging, whatever you want to call it, during action scenes. FYI- Pirate sof the Carribean, and Angels and Demons.

My questions are

1. Do I need floor standers or bookshelves? My dedicated HT room is around 14x26 with 8 ft ceilings. 80% HT 20% Music.
2. Is there that much difference (besides the sub) in speakers for HT use?
3. A salesman told me that the Paradigm Monitor series contained the same components as last years studio version. True or False?

I auditioned the monitor series and FWIW(could not tell that much difference between the studios). The S4's were definately a marvel. The best I have ever heard.

I figured with th AVR I have the studios and sigs are out. I do want to make one more visit to the store. The Klipsch dealer also carries B&W.

I know its all subjective, but now I want your experienced opinions pros and cons. Also, keep the bashing down to a minimum on the monitor and studio comment. I know someone will tell me how that is impossible, BUT it is what I heard... LOL.

Thanks for the help and pics to follow of nearly completed basement.

 

[JerryLove]

I won't recommend one brand over another here. That's up to your ear.

1. That depends on what you find you like. For music: I'm a big fan of good floor standers (IOW speakers whose largest cone is pretty big) like the RSIIIb's I have in the family room. For HT: since I'm generally running 5-7 speakers + subs, and since the center is busier than the fronts generally anyway, I'm more interested in matching and placement.
2. If you are running a HT setup, I recommend highly a subwoofer. The only floor speakers that are going to push down to where a decent sub will are prohibitively expensive (looking at the rest of your purchase).
3. I have no idea... but I will say that similar rumors are the norm for Paradigm speakers and have usually been false (that studios use the tweeters from the previous versions Signatures). It is unlikely that the components are all the same. The cost of manufacturing those components has not changed, and were Paradigm doing a double or triple markup before (to be able to still make a profit now), they would not have been competitive in their market segment.

Speaker tech improves, but not that fast.

All that said: what versions were you looking at. The S4 (my favorite Signature) is not being made in the incoming (V3) version. I'm hoping to have the budget to upgrade my Studio 40s to S4s by the beginning of the year.

FWIW, I'm currently using a Marantz 7002 to power my HT with Studio40v3 x2, StudioCC470v3, and SignatureS2v1 x2 and a Velodyne sub. I'm pretty happy with it (though, as I mentioned, am hoping to move up to all Sigs)

Though I'm sure there's lots of Paradigm dealers with McIntosh gear: you don't happen to be in Tampa Bay do you?

 

[oppman99]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Jerry, that I prefer floorstanders for music. For HT, I think bookshelves and a good sub are fine. I would always use a sub for HT.

As for brands, I have used Klipsch for HT duty and they performed very well. I just didn't care for them music wise. I also noticed the harshness you commented on. I'm limited in what brands I have available to audition, but like you, I really like the Paradigm Studio and Signature lines. You DO NOT need Macintosh gear to run Paradigms. Any of the digms you mentioned can be run off an AVR. Also, Emotiva amps pair very well with Paradigm, (see my signature) and at a much more reasonable price point. I see Behringer recommended frequently also, but I don't have any experience with that brand. I really like what adding Emotiva amps has done for the dynamics of my system, but that's just my opinion.

I don't think the Paradigm Monitor series uses the same components as last year's Studios. I think the Studio tweeter is titanium and the Monitor uses aluminum, but don't quote me on that. It wouldn't really make sense, because I don't think they changed the tweeter on the v5 Studios, so what incentive would there be to buy the Studio over the Monitors if the drivers were the same? Ok, maybe the real wood cabinet, but that's all I can think of.

If you're really in love with the Signatures, check with your dealer about getting the actual pair you were listening to during your demo. With v3 coming out, they should give you a discount on the floor models. There are also sites like audiogon to consider if you are comfortable buying used. S4's are rare, but they do pop up once in a while. Definately go back and do some more listening and pick what you will be happy with and can afford. Based on personal experience, go with the highest end model you like and can get without stretching yourself too thin financially. I've bought and sold numerous speakers in the last year and a half, and wish I had saved myself the trouble and just waited until I had the funds to "go big" instead of a bunch of incremental upgrades. I went from Klipsch towers to Paradigm Studio 100's to Signature S2's, and very soon now to S8's. Fortunately I bought most of my gear used, so I didn't take much of a hit when I sold, but it's a pain to ship speakers.

 

[j_garcia]

I agree with trying to get the floor models when the new ones come out. I've done this a number of times with my dealer and got great speakers for as much as 50% off. I also would tend to agree with going for the ones you want instead of settling and still wanting the higher ones. The only models I would buy from Paradigm now are the Signatures since hearing them. I like the Studios, but knowing how the Sigs sound means I wouldn't be totally satisfied with them.

If you like the sound of the Sigs, I would try to also find a place that carries Joseph Audio. The RM7Si was better than the S2 to my ears and actually cost less.

http://www.josephaudio.com/JosephAudio/RM_7XL.html

 

[fredk]

You are a braver man than I, listening to speakers you might not be able to afford.

I mostly agree with the others here with one exception. Consider spending a little more on good bookshelves and mate them with a sub. My listening is limited in this regard, but I found that the Axiom M22 with a sub was almost indestinguishable from the M60 tower (aside from the lower bass from the sub on some material.

Do some listening yourself and see what you find. It all depends on your budget and what you can or want to fit into your room. Floorstanders are by no means ruled out in a room our size.

The Monitors do not contain last year's studio drivers. The technology from one line does eventually trickle down to lower models over time. There was no indication of changes to the studio drivers from V4 to V5 other than a surround change.

 

[stl1cjg]

Guys thanks for all the recommendations. FredK, I am interested in Axiom...(I see you on the axiom and forums here all the time). Problem is I am in St. Louis. I checked the axiom board for people who let the community come and audition the axiom speakers but found no one close, unless something has changed since. I will admit the S4's (don't know what version but it was Februaru 2009 that I auditioned) were unreal. I want to say he quoted me $4000. I really can't remeber as I was drooling all over the room.

Can the Marantz 6003 run these at high levels for HT? I know I said that I have a budget, but I agree that I would rather save and get what I want than settle for what I can afford now.

Also, compare Axiom (subjectively) to the Klipsch and Digms I auditioned. Are they flat? Bright? Boomy?...etc

Thanks again.

 

[the grunt]

1. Do I need floor standers or bookshelves? My dedicated HT room is around 14x26 with 8 ft ceilings. 80% HT 20% Music

Unless you plan on lots of 2 channel music listening w/o a subwoofer you will likely get more performance for your money by getting good bookshelf speakers and a sub especially since you will want the sub for HT use anyway. Similar to Fred I’ve compared my Axiom M22s + sub with my M80s w/ & w/o a sub and found that the bookshelf + sub combo gives me 95% of what the towers do with or w/o the sub. Bookshelf speakers can also be easier to place below a screen if you’re plan on getting a projector.

2. Is there that much difference (besides the sub) in speakers for HT use?

Usually a good speaker for music is going to sound good for HT. However, I think HT and gaming use is a little more forgiving than critical music listening so a speaker that you find good for HT you might not like as much for music. Originally I also planned on mostly HT and gaming and little music listening, however after getting speakers I really like I find the vast majority of my use is now for music listening.

If you’ve already found a speaker that you love then I suggest you find a way to get it. The only caveat is can you get a good matching center like the C3, and if so have you listened to all 3 together. Since movies are your main use for now and if you plan to listen to multi-channel audio you really want a center channel that sounds the same as your mains. You could even get another S4 as a center if then sell singles and you can fit it with your screen which would give you the ideal of 3 matching speaker up front.

Cheers,
Dean

 

[the grunt]

Also, compare Axiom (subjectively) to the Klipsch and Digms I auditioned. Are they flat? Bright? Boomy?...etc

Many people consider Axioms like the M80s to be bright less so the M22s, M2s and M60s in that order. Generally they’re not considered as bright most Klipsch speakers. Also some people conceder the M80s to have a recessed midrange. Personally I don’t consider them bright but then I also don’t consider B&W or Focal to sound bright. I own both M80s and M22s and love both however YMMV. If I was in your position I would buy the S4s and a good subwoofer since you already know you really like them.

If you’re really inclined to try Axiom I suggest you order a pair of M22s and have a listen, I believe return shipping is about $15/bookshelf speaker if you don‘t keep them. They don’t go as low as the S4s but it would give you a chance to hear, maybe even compare them to the S4s. But again if you know you love the S4s then find a way to get them.

Cheers,
Dean

 

[lsiberian]

If you’ve already found a speaker that you love then I suggest you find a way to get it. The only caveat is can you get a good matching center like the C3, and if so have you listened to all 3 together.

I suggest you get the speaker you love regardless of center availability. It'd be better to phantom the center with speakers you love than to have a center with ones you don't prefer.

 

[j_garcia]

Axioms are in the same realm as the Studios in terms of brightness, so about the same IMO. I find both of them to be on the bright side, in other words, but not at the level of Klipsch. I feel that the Axioms aren't quite as good as the Studio line either, but they don't cost nearly as much on the same note.

IMO, I also would not run Signatures off a 6003. External amplification for sure.

 

[JerryLove]

stl1cjg,

If you do decide to go studio (excellent gear IMO), and are interested in gently used v3 (sound much like v4 in my experience; I can't compare to v5 as I've not heard those); drop me a note. I might be putting up some of my Digm studio gear soon. They aren't up yet because I'm not completely sure which ones I want to sell-vs-keep, and because I'm waiting on replacement grills.

 

[the grunt]

I suggest you get the speaker you love regardless of center availability. It'd be better to phantom the center with speakers you love than to have a center with ones you don't prefer.

True but then it wouldn’t hurt to keep looking for 3 matching speakers you love, if you have the time, rather than settle for a phantom center for 80% HT use.