Rate my vintage amp by todays standards

[KEW]

I bought this amp in 1980.
The two links below give a pretty good overview.

http://www.vintageaudio.com.au/Amps/Sansui/Sansui AU-717 Integrated Amp.htm
http://www.sansui.us/images/Manuals/au717_spec.JPG

For you guys who know the ins and outs of good amplifiers, how does it compare with modern gear? Are there some major omissions by today's standards?
TIA

 

[croseiv]

Looks like a decent amp to me. If it still works like it should, then it seems like a winner. It looks like a four channel set up (for A plus B speakers). By today's standards, it would need a pre-out for the sub woofer and an extra channel so you could have a 5.1 set-up.

 

[KEW]

Moderators, can you move this to the amps, receivers section?

 

[Seth=L]

That's a fantastic integrated amplifier, and a heavy one. Compared to todays amplifiers it will lack in efficiency for sure. It's size to output ratio is a bit off of what we often see today but at the same time a lot of effort went into the design of those amplifiers and they were built to the highest standard. Not much could top their value at the time.

I used to have that model but the output stage was fried when I bought it (got it for cheap). The preamp stage worked great, but I don't need a 45 pound preamp.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I bought this amp in 1980.
The two links below give a pretty good overview.

http://www.vintageaudio.com.au/Amps/Sansui/Sansui AU-717 Integrated Amp.htm
http://www.sansui.us/images/Manuals/au717_spec.JPG

For you guys who know the ins and outs of good amplifiers, how does it compare with modern gear? Are there some major omissions by today's standards?
TIA

Yep, looks like it is a great one from the past

 

[highfigh]

Looks like a decent amp to me. If it still works like it should, then it seems like a winner. It looks like a four channel set up (for A plus B speakers). By today's standards, it would need a pre-out for the sub woofer and an extra channel so you could have a 5.1 set-up.

I can't think of a single 4 channel amp from 1980. The fact that it has Speakers A and B means it can connect to two pairs of speakers, not that it's 4 channels. Speaker selectors are placed after the amp, they don't create more channels. It could only be considered a 4 channel amp if it has four separate inputs.

 

[highfigh]

I bought this amp in 1980.
The two links below give a pretty good overview.

http://www.vintageaudio.com.au/Amps/Sansui/Sansui AU-717 Integrated Amp.htm
http://www.sansui.us/images/Manuals/au717_spec.JPG

For you guys who know the ins and outs of good amplifiers, how does it compare with modern gear? Are there some major omissions by today's standards?
TIA

It was a good amp and as long as everything is within spec, it should still be a good amp, but I wouldn't spend a huge amount on it because it's not what most consider to be a true classic. I wouldn't buy anything from their mid-late '80s lines though, especially the R series of receivers.

One good thing about Sansui was that they were DC (direct coupled), which usually means wide bandwidth and "fast" sound (good transient response). One bad thing about their amps was that they were Direct Coupled, because when some components fail, they take out a lot of others. People can say what they want, but capacitor coupled amps have been around for a long time, are still made, sound good and when they go bad, they have a lot less damage.

If you buy one of these, have it checked out by someone who's familiar with them. If the shop doesn't have, and won't get, the proper schematic or service manual for what you have, find someone who has it or will get one. If you can't find someone who's willing to do this, get one for yourself and have them use it to set the bias and DC offset. The fact that it's Direct Coupled means that it could pass DC (Direct Current) to your speakers and we all know that's not what speakers are made for.

 

[KEW]

Thanks. I was hoping it wasn't too far behind the curve.

It is a 2 channel amp.

 

[MatthewB.]

Almost all of my amps are from the 70's and 80's and even though old they work just as well as brand new amps (they really knew how to build those things back then) when solder could use lead and big huge capicitors. Recievers change almost yearly but a good amp should last you decades.

 

[croseiv]

I can't think of a single 4 channel amp from 1980. The fact that it has Speakers A and B means it can connect to two pairs of speakers, not that it's 4 channels. Speaker selectors are placed after the amp, they don't create more channels. It could only be considered a 4 channel amp if it has four separate inputs.

Yeah. Upon closer inspection it does appear to be a two channel integrated. I did see four inputs, but that is for two sets of L and R I guess.

 

[KEW]

1)It was a good amp and as long as everything is within spec, it should still be a good amp, but I wouldn't spend a huge amount on it because it's not what most consider to be a true classic. I wouldn't buy anything from their mid-late '80s lines though, especially the R series of receivers.

2)If you buy one of these, have it checked out by someone who's familiar with them. If the shop doesn't have, and won't get, the proper schematic or service manual for what you have, find someone who has it or will get one. If you can't find someone who's willing to do this, get one for yourself and have them use it to set the bias and DC offset. The fact that it's Direct Coupled means that it could pass DC (Direct Current) to your speakers and we all know that's not what speakers are made for.

1)Yeah, I don't know what happened to Sansui!
When this amp came out, Stereo Review said it equaled or bettered any amp they had ever reviewed/tested. Sansui surely did die a fast death (quality wise).

2)I'm not looking to buy, I am the original owner.
Actually, I already had it serviced. I didn't want to say that up-front because people tend to be kind and not say "you just wasted $200" if they know you already made the decision. I wanted to know if it was functionally obsolete.
It worked, but could take as long as 5 minutes for the pre operation power protection check to finish (10 seconds is normal). This guy http://www.aminaaudio.com/ replaced any suspect components (primarily caps) and cleaned everything. I'm hoping that since he designs and builds amps, he knows his stuff. He did say he was very surprised with how clean the sound was when he tested it.

I tend to personify stuff which I have owned for so long, so for me this is more than just the hardware.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Specs look pretty good to me.

 

[JerryLove]

On the down side:

80W into 8 Ohms isn't breath-taking.
There's no mention of 4 Ohm loads at all.
It cannot be bridged mono (though imagining 5-7 of those behemoths running a HT is interesting).

There's no reason to not use that as a perfectly effective, if somewhat over sized (like I'm one to talk with my McIntosh 2120) 80W stereo amp. I for one always like a working conversational piece.

But to every thing a purpose. I have a Mc2120 powering computer speakers and a circa 1990 Pioneer doing stereo duties in the living room.

 

[zvardanian]

In terms of sound quality and build, it's hard to beat the mid-late 70's gear.

To really be an excellent performer, they need to be recapped...and the old carbon resistors need to be swaped for metal foil. At the very least, recapping makes a huge difference.

I've recapped a few receiver:, Marantz 2245, Pioneer SX-780, Sansui 9090.

It's not hard, but is time consuming. Recapping makes a world of difference, even using simple Panasonic FC's.

 

[KEW]

In terms of sound quality and build, it's hard to beat the mid-late 70's gear.
To really be an excellent performer, they need to be recapped...and the old carbon resistors need to be swaped for metal foil. At the very least, recapping makes a huge difference.

Hmm, I know it was recapped, but not sure about the resistors. Benny repaired it, not a rebuild. Let me pop the top, take a picture, and maybe you tell me how it looks?
Thanks!

 

[KEW]

Hmm, I know it was recapped, but not sure about the resistors. Benny repaired it, not a rebuild. Let me pop the top, take a picture, and maybe you tell me how it looks?
Thanks!

Okay, let's keep this real!
I contracted for repair, not a rebuild (which he offered), and I'm sure he made practical decisions. The unit works and sounds great and several components look new.
I'm sure some of you rebuild equipment as a labor of love, and the fact that the "g-flux whammydiddle" did not get replaced is a cardinal sin!

I woodwork for fun and passion and can afford to spend 4 hours getting something perfect which could only justify 15 minutes if I was in business. It is easy for me to walk into a high end furniture and pick apart the craftsmanship; however, it is unfair. If I had to make my living building furniture, I would either adapt or starve because people only want fine craftsmanship when they can get it on the cheap!

Please let me know if you see anything I might want to have done, but lets avoid sharp criticism.

Thanks!
Kurt

The one thing my untrained eye sees is the glue (or leakage?) around the bottom of the "cans" in the third pictures. It looks bad, but is it a real concern?

 

[highfigh]

1)Yeah, I don't know what happened to Sansui!
When this amp came out, Stereo Review said it equaled or bettered any amp they had ever reviewed/tested. Sansui surely did die a fast death (quality wise).

2)I'm not looking to buy, I am the original owner.
Actually, I already had it serviced. I didn't want to say that up-front because people tend to be kind and not say "you just wasted $200" if they know you already made the decision. I wanted to know if it was functionally obsolete.
It worked, but could take as long as 5 minutes for the pre operation power protection check to finish (10 seconds is normal). This guy http://www.aminaaudio.com/ replaced any suspect components (primarily caps) and cleaned everything. I'm hoping that since he designs and builds amps, he knows his stuff. He did say he was very surprised with how clean the sound was when he tested it.

I tend to personify stuff which I have owned for so long, so for me this is more than just the hardware.

Sansui lost market share and went cheap instead of better. In Wisconsin, we have a chain called American TV, which has now extended into the Quad Cities, St Louis and Kansas City areas and when the owner became sick, his brother took over and grew the hell out of it. All he really planned to do was liquidate but he sold everything in less than a month. Once he had grown enough, that 4 store chain sold 9% of the world volume of Sansui and he ended up owning 25% of the company. Make it cheap and sell a lot of it became the plan and it also was the end of their days of quality.

The 10 minute "get out of protection" cycle would indicate DC at the outputs, IIRC. As I mentioned, DC amps can pass direct current and I also remember them needing to have some diodes and/or caps replaced, and this can be the reason it took more than the usual 5 seconds. If he started as a service tech, he should be well familiar with these. Hopefully, this is the case.

Hope it works out.

 

[highfigh]

On the down side:

80W into 8 Ohms isn't breath-taking.
There's no mention of 4 Ohm loads at all.
It cannot be bridged mono (though imagining 5-7 of those behemoths running a HT is interesting).

There's no reason to not use that as a perfectly effective, if somewhat over sized (like I'm one to talk with my McIntosh 2120) 80W stereo amp. I for one always like a working conversational piece.

But to every thing a purpose. I have a Mc2120 powering computer speakers and a circa 1990 Pioneer doing stereo duties in the living room.

I'd bet that if one input received an inverted signal, it could be bridged, but it was never made for that. I bridged my late-'70s Sony integrated amp to run a pair of Peavey PA subs and because the Crown crossover I had at the time had normal and inverted outputs, it worked fine for this. As long as it doesn't have true dual mono, an output transformer or an autoformer for each channel, the negative is common, so most solid state amps are bridgeable.

Running difficult loads is probably not a great idea, though but if someone here has more experience with this model and difficult speakers, maybe they can add some info.

 

[highfigh]

Okay, let's keep this real!
I contracted for repair, not a rebuild (which he offered), and I'm sure he made practical decisions. The unit works and sounds great and several components look new.
I'm sure some of you rebuild equipment as a labor of love, and the fact that the "g-flux whammydiddle" did not get replaced is a cardinal sin!

I woodwork for fun and passion and can afford to spend 4 hours getting something perfect which could only justify 15 minutes if I was in business. It is easy for me to walk into a high end furniture and pick apart the craftsmanship; however, it is unfair. If I had to make my living building furniture, I would either adapt or starve because people only want fine craftsmanship when they can get it on the cheap!

Please let me know if you see anything I might want to have done, but lets avoid sharp criticism.

Thanks!
Kurt

The one thing my untrained eye sees is the glue (or leakage?) around the bottom of the "cans" in the third pictures. It looks bad, but is it a real concern?

The caps did leak and I would definitely replace them because of that. Caps are relatively cheap and it's good insurance. The photos show mostly metal foil resistors and by the time that was made, carbon composition resistors had been largely replaced by what yours has. OTOH, if this was a vintage guitar amp, most people would recommend keeping the old carbon comp resistors if they were within tolerance or replacing with new ones to maintain the vintage sound. I have one guitar amp that's from 1958 and another that's at least 70 years old- people have commented on how quiet they are and I have replaced two resistors on the '58 and none on the older one.

I seriously doubt you have any bad resistors and if you want to find out if any need to be replaced, switch it to an unused input (other than phono) and turn the volume up. If you hear loud hissing or crackling, you may have a bad resistor but if it's quiet, they're fine. I wouldn't crank it wide open- that kind of crackling can toast tweeters.

Enjoy it. Being older doesn't mean it's bad- there are many people who love old equipment that's hardly great but they don't care. Yours is far better than that what I have seen people fawn over.

 

[highfigh]

Okay, let's keep this real!I woodwork for fun and passion and can afford to spend 4 hours getting something perfect which could only justify 15 minutes if I was in business. It is easy for me to walk into a high end furniture and pick apart the craftsmanship; however, it is unfair. If I had to make my living building furniture, I would either adapt or starve because people only want fine craftsmanship when they can get it on the cheap!

I don't think it's unfair to critique craftsmanship on high end items. If they want to charge those prices, I want to see something great. If they have machine cut dovetails, it loses a lot of luster, IMO. I have seen people cut dovetails and box joints in a very short time with only hand tools and while it would be very tedious to do on a constant basis, that is a traditional method of joinery that's well over 2000 years old.

You're right, though. People don't want to pay the price for craftsmanship, although many have no idea what it takes to produce these things, especially when they're made from wood. The lumber may need to be in stock for years before it's ready and even if it is older, once the face cuts have been made, it needs to acclimate all over again to keep it from warping. Must be nice to have a huge stockpile of dimensioned lumber.