Sub is localizable.

[Patrick_Wolf]

I did the crawl test numerous times and could not find any place where I couldn't tell where the bass was coming from. I thought I found a few places where it might be ok, but when I moved the sub over there; no good. Tried little adjustments in each location; didn't really do anything.

The best place I found is right behind me as the pressure is hitting both ears, albeit I can still tell it's coming from behind.

The room is about 1700 sq. ft. which opens into a little kitchen making it about 2400 sq. ft total. It also has 2 windows with blackout curtains. Room is also connected to bathroom & bedroom, but they have doors. Sub is the PB10-NSD crossed at 80hz. Took some quick pics of my rat's nest.

Is the single PB10 just not enough for my room? Going dual is probably the best fix (course I don't wanna do that with the large n' heavy SVS's). Would upgrading to a 12" woofer help? I will also ask SVS what they recommend.

 

[lsiberian]

I did the crawl test numerous times and could not find any place where I couldn't tell where the bass was coming from. I thought I found a few places where it might be ok, but when I moved the sub over there; no good. Tried little adjustments in each location; didn't really do anything.

The best place I found is right behind me as the pressure is hitting both ears, albeit I can still tell it's coming from behind.

The room is about 1700 sq. ft. which opens into a little kitchen making it about 2400 sq. ft total. It also has 2 windows with blackout curtains. Room is also connected to bathroom & bedroom, but they have doors. Sub is the PB10-NSD crossed at 80hz. Took some quick pics of my rat's nest.

Is the single PB10 just not enough for my room? Going dual is probably the best fix (course I don't wanna do that with the large n' heavy SVS's). Would upgrading to a 12" woofer help? I will also ask SVS what they recommend.

Try crossing it at 100hz and see if that helps(my sub sucks at 80hz in my room). Try also turning it down. You may be running a tad hot. You might also try a slight seat adjustment.

 

[j_garcia]

In my large room, SVS's recommendation was to add a second PB-10 as that will give you more output than a single PB-12. I agree with trying different x-over points and level adjustments to see if you can dial it in right where you like it. I find it takes a few days to really adjust it correctly.

 

[smihalik]

Adding a second PB-10 sounds like a good idea, if its within your budget.

BTW, I took a look at your place. I was expecting a gigantic palace of a room, since you quoted it as 1700 square feet. I can see now that you meant cubic feet.

 

[Mister House]

The room is too small and the sub it too big to place it somewhere to where you have time for the wavelength to mature. Most any place you put it you will still here the woofer and the wavelength. I recommend finding a way to block the immediate sound of the sub. Such as a clothing partition or behind a door such as firing the port into that small closet looking room. Basically get the sub as far away from you and then put something in front of it. Bass is non-directional. Good Luck and let me know how it works....if it works lol

 

[Patrick_Wolf]

Been playing around with it, still not having much luck. It's not too bad when positioned behind me since the sound hits both ears, but it could be better.

Adding a second PB-10 sounds like a good idea, if its within your budget.

BTW, I took a look at your place. I was expecting a gigantic palace of a room, since you quoted it as 1700 square feet. I can see now that you meant cubic feet.

Oops, guess geometry isn't my thing.

I could add a 2nd PB10 now if I wanted, but would rather not. Course if that's what it takes...

Try crossing it at 100hz and see if that helps(my sub sucks at 80hz in my room). Try also turning it down. You may be running a tad hot. You might also try a slight seat adjustment.

Yep, tried different xovers both with the AVR and using the sub's xover (having AVR's xover maxed). Going higher made things a little worse if anything. I don't think volume is the problem. Actually I think I had it too low, course that also makes it less noticeable/localizable.

I've racked my brain thinking of a better way to position my stuff, but this room just totally sucks.

The room is too small and the sub it too big to place it somewhere to where you have time for the wavelength to mature. Most any place you put it you will still here the woofer and the wavelength. I recommend finding a way to block the immediate sound of the sub. Such as a clothing partition or behind a door such as firing the port into that small closet looking room. Basically get the sub as far away from you and then put something in front of it. Bass is non-directional. Good Luck and let me know how it works....if it works lol

That's very interesting. Would've never guessed the sub was too big! I will play around with blocking the immediate sound.

Thanks all. I've read that some (very few) people are able to locate the direction of bass. Sure hope I'm not one of them.

 

[jostenmeat]

You don't want to raise the xover, you want to lower it if you want to reduce localization. A problem is that your monitors aren't known to extend, but OTOH if your volumes are moderate at best, it's worth an experiment?

A looney thing to think about is to use your sub as the TV stand. Something for isolation, not just to reduce the shaking of pic, but also to protect the finish. YMMV!

But, I'm also thinking of the couch seat. Not at your computer. I don't know which position is truly of more importance for you.

Yeah, they say we can't localize below a certain point, but FWIW, many baritones can sing below 80hz. I have a really pathetic vocal range for a bass, and even I can almost sing that low. Of course, I do understand my voice is more localizable due to the harmonics that make up my tone, but still, if a common human can hit the fundamental . . . I dunno . .

or stereo subs, having each monitor on top of the sub.

 

[Mister House]

or stereo subs, having each monitor on top of the sub.

That is an idea! you can put the sub behind a main/monitor. Possibly in this order... wall-sub-partition-main/monitor.

Having the main/monitor in front of the sub could possibly keep the initial sound of the sub being heard.

Just another odd thought sometimes they come and go....I hope I don't get committed lol

 

[no. 5]

Patrick:
Have you measured what frequency the acoustical crossover actually is?

 

[croseiv]

So you have your sub in the middle of your listening area, it appears, which is the worst spot to have it. Is that the only place you can put it? You should at least try some other spots, a little further away than where it is. Maybe over beside your TV? Your set up arrangement is a bit unusual.

 

[Patrick_Wolf]

So you have your sub in the middle of your listening area, it appears, which is the worst spot to have it. Is that the only place you can put it? You should at least try some other spots, a little further away than where it is. Maybe over beside your TV? Your set up arrangement is a bit unusual.

It is definetly unusual which is why I'm having so much trouble. I'd love to sit farther back and just plop the sub in front someplace between the mains, but can't . I've listened to the sub at virtually every location around my room. Behind me seemed to be the best.

Though I have finally found a location that works fairly well against the wall behind me. I'm finding that some frequencies are harder to localize than others here.

 

[Patrick_Wolf]

Patrick:
Have you measured what frequency the acoustical crossover actually is?

No. Don't know how either. I found when I have the sub's xover enabled at 80Hz and the AVR's xover maxed you can't really hear some male vocals as you can using the AVR's xover at 80Hz (sub xover disabled). Don't know what's up with that, or if even relates to what your talking about.

 

[Mister House]

Glad you found something that semi-works. I know it is hard in such a small room.

 

[no. 5]

No. Don't know how either. I found when I have the sub's xover enabled at 80Hz and the AVR's xover maxed you can't really hear some male vocals as you can using the AVR's xover at 80Hz (sub xover disabled). Don't know what's up with that, or if even relates to what your talking about.

What you describe there sounds like the electrical crossover slopes and corner frequencies are not producing a satisfactory acoustic crossover.

What you need to do is measure the in room frequency response once without the sub, and again with the sub but without the other speakers. Once you have that information, you can see at what frequency the acoustical crossover between the sub and satellites actually takes place and adjust things accordingly. Likely the only thing you'll be able to do cheaply and easily is to enable the subwoofer's crossover and use that to lower the acoustical crossover frequency. For measurements, you can use freeware like this or this, and a microphone is, of coarse, necessary (an SPL meter will work fine).

 

[Patrick_Wolf]

I know this is like way late, but I have a final update.

I didn't measure the in-room frequency response yet as I'm sick of tweaking my audio stuff to perfection.

I did contact SVS and they were amazing as everyone says. They said more than this, but it basically boiled down to this.

" In most cases, enabling the crossover on the sub and "cascading" it with the AVR's crossover is not needed/recommended, but in a case where an even steeper-than-normal crossover might be needed, it can help. It can't hurt anything physically, so if it sounds better don’t hesitate to use it. Directionality has nothing to do with the sub being too big, and a bigger sub's sound waves don’t "spread out" differently than a smaller sub with a similar frequency response. In terms of dynamics, there's no way a PB10-NSD is even close to too big. In fact, to approach actual reference level in 1700ft^3 you'd need a PB12-Plus or PB13-Ultra.

Dual subs can certainly help when spaced out, but a larger sub won't help unless the sub is so loud you're getting distortion or port noise from it, which sounds like it's far from the case."

So MisterHouse I guess sub size relative to room size is not the issue.

So I did the crossover thing as I sorta did before; enabled at 80hz on both the AVR and sub and I like the result. It's not perfect, but fairly good. I also increased the sub's volume so it's about 2-3db below my speakers. Not even sure what it was at before..

I'm going to move my seating position over more where it sounds a bit better. I believe my seating position is the main problem here in this funky room. Dual subs may still be in my future. Though I should probably put funds towards something bigger than a 32" screen.

Thanks for the help all.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

I did not see this asked, but you did try messing with the phasing I hope? Mine are reversed from my mains.

 

[djreef]

Thanks all. I've read that some (very few) people are able to locate the direction of bass. Sure hope I'm not one of them.

I suspect that this may be the case. I am also one of those unfortunate few, and I can tell you that it does suck.

DJ

 

[djreef]

Thanks all. I've read that some (very few) people are able to locate the direction of bass. Sure hope I'm not one of them.

I suspect that this may be the case. I am one of those unfortunate few, and I can tell you that it does suck. A second sub placed in an opposite corner will help.

DJ

 

[KEW]

I suspect that this may be the case. I am also one of those unfortunate few, and I can tell you that it does suck.
DJ

Well, at least you'll know which direction to run when you hear King Kong coming!
The rest of us will just be running around in circles!

 

[selkec]

I suspect that this may be the case. I am also one of those unfortunate few, and I can tell you that it does suck.

DJ

Yeah, I too am one of the unfortunate few. It sucks.