DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[Matt34]

The graphs I've seen show it to be very capable, as would be expected from a Seaton design. As long as they (av123) are still using the design and the proper components specified in that design I don't see why it wouldn't be a performer. It's tuned similar to the SVS pb-12nsd but has more output and it seems it has enough port to eliminate any port noise within it's operating range.

That said, I still wouldn't own one.

 

[cschang]

The graphs I've seen show it to be very capable, as would be expected from a Seaton design. As long as they (av123) are still using the design and the proper components specified in that design I don't see why it wouldn't be a performer. It's tuned similar to the SVS pb-12nsd but has more output and it seems it has enough port to eliminate any port noise within it's operating range.

That said, I still wouldn't own one.

Those graphs are for output. I am coming from strictly sound quality point of view. IMO, most people have more output than they need and rarely focus on sound quality. Most that I have done side by side tests with are amazed at sound quality differences from tonal to decay.

There is also some question if the current driver in the MFW is the same driver that Seaton spec'd.

 

[majorloser]

Jgillow brought a couple MFW-15's over to my house last year and we put them up against my HSU VTF-3HO's w/turbos. We didn't do any serious testing, but they seemed to do just fine for my small room compared to my subs. And they do have much nicer cabinets over the HSU subs.

 

[cschang]

Hsu's cabinets until recently left a lot to be desired...now they are very nice. The HO was discontinued because its upper bass could not match the quality of the VTF-3.3 (which I have owned), while only having a slight advantage in the deepest bass.

Just want to make sure I reiterate this. The MFW is a good sub when it comes to sound quality, I just don't think it as good as some other ported subs I have heard. If you don't have any veneer problems, the finish is outstanding.

 

[SnowmaNick]

I wouldn't commend him for anything. He (craig) banned people and deleted posts (and entire threads) like crazy at the beginning. From what I saw it's only when the anti-MLS tide was overwhelming did he see that he had more to gain by allowing it than he did by censoring it. And he was right. If he would have continued his practice of deletion and banning he would have given up a large amount of traffic. If even 1% of the people that he would have previously banned/deleted find a more permanent home there and/or buy a product from him he made a shrewd business decision. And based off his flip flopping, that has to be what it was, a business decision, not an ethical one.

There are a lot of things that I would commend Craig for. He is consistently a large supporter of charities/raffles/donations, has spent a lot of time, effort and money compiling a well known list of subs, has opened his home to numerous people and has personally helped me.

I disliked the decision to close the thread, but I also understood that he had to make a decision to separate his company and forum from a strong tide pulling it away from his companies products.

Craig can be abrasive and opinionated but so can many (myself included). I would also say that my impression is that Craig is a shrewd and successful businessman but I personally think that is an admirable trait.

Sorry for the OT post.

 

[cschang]

Craig has displayed some very different traits. Depending on what you perceive and experience, affects how you view him, much like MLS.

The way I see it, he has the opportunity to put a lot of pressure on MLS, which could potentially help TCA, as well as many people that MLS's actions have affected negatively.

 

[majorloser]

Craig Chase was banned from Audioholics due to his attitude. If you don't want to get banned around here, there's one person you don't get into a confrontation with, the owner of Audioholics, Gene DellaSala. And you definitely don't want to post private conversations with Gene just to try and twist the conversation into something it wasn't.

I'd just as soon leave him out of this since he doesn't deserve the free advertisement.

 

[fredk]

The graphs I've seen show it to be very capable, as would be expected from a Seaton design. As long as they (av123) are still using the design and the proper components specified in that design I don't see why it wouldn't be a performer.

That is a legitimate question. The MFW15 is considerably less expensive than the the nearest competitors. It could be that the Seaton design is a home run that re-defines what a good value sub is. Could also be that AV123 cheaped out on components and/or the manufacturing process and the result was the quality issues we see. It will be interesting to see where the price goes and how the new amps hold up.

 

[Chu Gai]

That is a legitimate question. The MFW15 is considerably less expensive than the the nearest competitors. It could be that the Seaton design is a home run that re-defines what a good value sub is. Could also be that AV123 cheaped out on components and/or the manufacturing process and the result was the quality issues we see. It will be interesting to see where the price goes and how the new amps hold up.

I might've missed it, but I haven't seen any comprehensive reviews that also incorporate distortion as a function of frequency and level. The answer may lie there. The driver to my knowledge is sourced through Emminence and I think the characteristics were set largely by Mark Seaton. Emminence contracts or subcontracts significant work overseas. My guess is the driver had to be relatively inexpensive and that always involves tradeoffs. Maybe the reason why you see people posting about their driver dying or buzzing has to do with these tradeoffs.

The original amp was a klutzy design and manufactured as inexpensively as possible at a shop (Mark calls everything factories) that used bogus parts to bring costs down. I imagine it was one of the shiteholes featured in Nat Geo. He never had a backup source. Eggs in one basket and all that.

The cabinetry and veneer. China knocks those off for pennies. See where the furniture is made in many retail stores.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Craig Chase was banned from Audioholics due to his attitude. If you don't want to get banned around here, there's one person you don't get into a confrontation with, the owner of Audioholics, Gene DellaSala. And you definitely don't want to post private conversations with Gene just to try and twist the conversation into something it wasn't.

I'd just as soon leave him out of this since he doesn't deserve the free advertisement.

Agreed. He has nothing to do with this subject on this forum anyways.

 

[mziegler]

Craig has displayed some very different traits. Depending on what you perceive and experience, affects how you view him, much like MLS.

The way I see it, he has the opportunity to put a lot of pressure on MLS, which could potentially help TCA, as well as many people that MLS's actions have affected negatively.

You have to admit that the length of time he allowed the forum thread to remain open was kind of remarkable. Though now closed, the thread is the best source of information about what has been going on.

It is a good thing this thread exists so people can post uncensored updates/developments.

 

[ivseenbetter]

I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion about the pros and cons of the MFW. So far, this thread has been a great place for folks to capture overall issues with the company AV123. My opinion about a statement that was made regarding the perfomance of the MFW has started to sidetrack the purpose of this thread so I will leave it alone. Besides, I don't want my defense of the MFW to be misconstrued as support for the practices that MLS has been dabbling in.

Cheers.

Chris

 

[Soundman]

The chorus no longer has to attack. The chorus is running the forum, so they just start deleting posts. If I recall correctly, the Mac11700 (or something) that is now a forum administrator is the guy that got asked by MLS to take a break from the forum due to his over the top, rabid fanboy attacks on anyone posting anything with even a hint of criticism in it.

It's not even a forum anymore, as was said before, it's a one way hype machine. Very glad I no longer own any av123 equipment (and the ascend/HSU stuff that I replaced it with sounds better anyway ).

If I'm not mistaken, Mac is posting quite regularly now.

 

[Soundman]

. Very glad I no longer own any av123 equipment (and the ascend/HSU stuff that I replaced it with sounds better anyway ).

I hope this does not come off the wrong way, but this statement is very subjective. Both of those companies have a very different sound and this is really a mater of taste. Also, this type of comparison could vary quite a bit depending on which products you were comparing. It may not even be a fair comparison depending on what characteristics/pricepoint/etc you're looking at. For example, Ascend doesn't even make a true tower. On the other hand, I'd take the Sierra 1's over any of the AV123 bookshelfs (assuming I would even buy anything from AV123 right now). My point is that making such a broad statement like that is kinda silly.

 

[NicolasKL]

If I'm not mistaken, Mac is posting quite regularly now.

Why wouldn't he be?

 

[NicolasKL]

I hope this does not come off the wrong way, but this statement is very subjective.

Of course it is, what isn't?

My point is that making such a broad statement like that is kinda silly.

My statement wasn't broad at all, I prefer the sound of the Ascend and Hsu equipment I have now (HTM200SEs and VTF-1) to the Av123 equipment I owned previously (X-LS/X-CS/X-Sub).

 

[Soundman]

Of course it is, what isn't?



My statement wasn't broad at all, I prefer the sound of the Ascend and Hsu equipment I have now (HTM200SEs and VTF-1) to the Av123 equipment I owned previously (X-LS/X-CS/X-Sub).

The reason I thought your statements were broad is because you never mentioned what equipment you were using. Thanks for clarifying. BTW, the Ascend stuff does sound really good for the money.

 

[Soundman]

Why wouldn't he be?

I believe someone mentioned something earlier about him taking a break for a while.

 

[NicolasKL]

I believe someone mentioned something earlier about him taking a break for a while.

Yeah, it was like a year ago. Obviously he's no longer on a break, since he's now a moderator of the forum.

 

[Soundman]

Yeah, it was like a year ago. Obviously he's no longer on a break, since he's now a moderator of the forum.

Good point, my Friend.