Started Build of ZMV5 from Zaph Audio

[ma7rix13]

Hi everyone, long time reader first time poster.

Bought a new table saw for this project and am kinda pissed that I am having trouble getting better than 1/16" accuracy from this thing. When I clamp the rip fence the end of the fence moves 1/16"...

Anyone have any tricks to deal with sides of the box that will be off about 1/16" diagonally... Routing? Sanding?

 

[lsiberian]

Hi everyone, long time reader first time poster.

Bought a new table saw for this project and am kinda pissed that I am having trouble getting better than 1/16" accuracy from this thing. When I clamp the rip fence the end of the fence moves 1/16"...

Anyone have any tricks to deal with sides of the box that will be off about 1/16" diagonally... Routing? Sanding?

The fence better angle or you will get yourself seriously hurt. A table saw cuts like this \B/ so the two pieces will angle slightly as they move away from the blade.

Still after ripping wood even with a good blade. I like to clean it up with a sander, joiner, or router. Sander is quickest to setup. The flush trim router bit is the cleanest. though sanding it with fine grit afterword is a wise choice IMO.

As always I remind you to use featherboards and guides for feeding wood. Also where eye, ear and face protection.

 

[Swerd]

Bought a new table saw for this project and am kinda pissed that I am having trouble getting better than 1/16" accuracy from this thing. When I clamp the rip fence the end of the fence moves 1/16"...

Anyone have any tricks to deal with sides of the box that will be off about 1/16" diagonally... Routing? Sanding?

Make sure your saw blades are square to your saw guides. I didn't think this was a big deal and used the markings on the saw guides. My first couple of boxes took forever to match pieces and finish. I found I had to cut extra pieces and then mix and match to get a good fit. Then I got a machinist's square and dialed in the saws. What a world of difference. Two hours of dialing in saved 10 hours of box work.

Some other tricks can really cut down on finish work:

• I build my boxes gluing the sides and top/bottoms together first, saving the front and rear for later.
• Cut the sides to be a little taller than the final intended dimensions. They should extend about ⅛" - ¼" above the top and below the bottom.
• Assemble the box with the bracing inside so the brace acts as an alignment guide.
• Clamp squares inside the box joints to hold them at right angles during gluing.
• When it is dry, use a flush bit on the router to trim the overhanging sides even with the top and bottom.
• Do the same with the front and rear baffle. Cut them oversize and glue them on with the sides all hanging over about ⅛" - ¼". Trim the excess off with the flush bit.

 

[lsiberian]

Make sure your saw blades are square to your saw guides. I didn't think this was a big deal and used the markings on the saw guides. My first couple of boxes took forever to match pieces and finish. I found I had to cut extra pieces and then mix and match to get a good fit. Then I got a machinist's square and dialed in the saws. What a world of difference. Two hours of dialing in saved 10 hours of box work.

Some other tricks can really cut down on finish work:

• I build my boxes gluing the sides and top/bottoms together first, saving the front and rear for later.
• Cut the sides to be a little taller than the final intended dimensions. They should extend about ⅛" - ¼" above the top and below the bottom.
• Assemble the box with the bracing inside so the brace acts as an alignment guide.
• Clamp squares inside the box joints to hold them at right angles during gluing.
• When it is dry, use a flush bit on the router to trim the overhanging sides even with the top and bottom.
• Do the same with the front and rear baffle. Cut them oversize and glue them on with the sides all hanging over about ⅛" - ¼". Trim the excess off with the flush bit.

I do the same thing except I use a sander for the trimming usually. I'm too lazy to set up the router.

 

[ma7rix13]

Thanks, good tips.

Isiberian, the rip fence actually tilts the other way B\ not how you represented it.

Swerd, only problem with using the gluing technique is that I planned to use a biscuit cutter to butt join the box. Hence, I do not think I will be able to utilize the flush bit router. Hmmmmm...

Well, going to do some more cutting today and maybe post some pics

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks, good tips.

Isiberian, the rip fence actually tilts the other way B\ not how you represented it.

Swerd, only problem with using the gluing technique is that I planned to use a biscuit cutter to butt join the box. Hence, I do not think I will be able to utilize the flush bit router. Hmmmmm...

Well, going to do some more cutting today and maybe post some pics

You mean it tilts toward the blade as you are cutting?
That would be the worst possible thing.

You certainly can still use a flush trim router to square off edges, if necessary. It will require some planning though.

 

[Swerd]

… only problem with using the gluing technique is that I planned to use a biscuit cutter to butt join the box. Hence, I do not think I will be able to utilize the flush bit router. Hmmmmm...

You can do what I describe with biscuits. I do. Measure & mark on the side pieces exactly where you intend to make the joints and place the biscuit cuts accordingly. If you can't visualize all this, try practicing on two scrap pieces to make a right angle joint where one piece slightly overlaps the joint. Trimming with a router and flush trim bit cures a lot of small errors.

Expect to make mistakes as you first build boxes. Have extra MDF on hand .

 

[lsiberian]

You can do what I describe with biscuits. I do. Measure & mark on the side pieces exactly where you intend to make the joints and place the biscuit cuts accordingly. If you can't visualize all this, try practicing on two scrap pieces to make a right angle joint where one piece slightly overlaps the joint. Trimming with a router and flush trim bit cures a lot of small errors.

Expect to make mistakes as you first build boxes. Have extra MDF on hand .

Yeah a sander is your friend.

 

[sawzalot]

Thanks, good tips.

Isiberian, the rip fence actually tilts the other way B\ not how you represented it.

Swerd, only problem with using the gluing technique is that I planned to use a biscuit cutter to butt join the box. Hence, I do not think I will be able to utilize the flush bit router. Hmmmmm...

Well, going to do some more cutting today and maybe post some pics

99% of fences have a simple adjustment on the top of the fence close to the locking handle on the rail side.It is usually two hex heads just loosen them and use a framing square or tape measure to set up the fence then tighten the bolts/screws back up.leave the locking handle in the locked position when adjusting.

 

[sawzalot]

Thanks, good tips.

Isiberian, the rip fence actually tilts the other way B\ not how you represented it.

Swerd, only problem with using the gluing technique is that I planned to use a biscuit cutter to butt join the box. Hence, I do not think I will be able to utilize the flush bit router. Hmmmmm...

Well, going to do some more cutting today and maybe post some pics

If you adjust the fence properly you should be able to get all your cuts within 1/16 th of an inch therefore the biscuit technique would work as it should.

 

[ma7rix13]

Thanks everyone. Test fit the boxes yesterday. Not as bad as I thought. Might have some sanding to do but since most of the cuts where 1/16" off I kind of have a slight parallelogram for both boxes (which migh help off-axis response!... just kidding).

Ordered all parts too from MCM, Madisound, Partsexpress, and Rockler... should be fun...

I can't belive the weight on these things already, they weight more then my floor standing speakers with a 10" woofer in it... should sound awesome.

Question, I will probably not have all joints airtight due to my slight accuracy issues, what the best way to ensure air tight fit so I don't get any leakage. Heavy duty chaulk on the inside?

 

[Swerd]

Thanks everyone. Test fit the boxes yesterday. Not as bad as I thought. Might have some sanding to do but since most of the cuts where 1/16" off I kind of have a slight parallelogram for both boxes (which migh help off-axis response!... just kidding).

Ordered all parts too from MCM, Madisound, Partsexpress, and Rockler... should be fun...

I can't belive the weight on these things already, they weight more then my floor standing speakers with a 10" woofer in it... should sound awesome.

Question, I will probably not have all joints airtight due to my slight accuracy issues, what the best way to ensure air tight fit so I don't get any leakage. Heavy duty chaulk on the inside?

Glue, caulk, and weather stripping.

Use liberal amounts of wood glue during assembly. Make sure that glue oozes out from the joints as you clamp them. Polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue) expands a bit as it sets. Some people use it to fill joints that don't quite fit together. But I prefer standard wood glue. It's easier to handle, non-toxic, and sets faster.

After that, use any acrylic or silicone caulk along all the inner seams.

Does your woofer come with some kind of rubber mounting gasket on its mounting flange? If not, you can use foam weather stripping from a hardware store, or buy some from Parts Express.

 

[sawzalot]

Thanks everyone. Test fit the boxes yesterday. Not as bad as I thought. Might have some sanding to do but since most of the cuts where 1/16" off I kind of have a slight parallelogram for both boxes (which migh help off-axis response!... just kidding).

Ordered all parts too from MCM, Madisound, Partsexpress, and Rockler... should be fun...

I can't belive the weight on these things already, they weight more then my floor standing speakers with a 10" woofer in it... should sound awesome.

Question, I will probably not have all joints airtight due to my slight accuracy issues, what the best way to ensure air tight fit so I don't get any leakage. Heavy duty chaulk on the inside?

I used a hot glue gun on the inside of my kappas, worked very well and cures like concrete.

 

[jinjuku]

How many here do 45 degree cuts vs 90 degree?

I intend to do a test cabinet or two and see if I can get the hang of it. My hopes are that it will put to rest the exposed edge of boards and make for less finish work.

 

[ma7rix13]

Yea, I got Gorilla Glue and some roofing caulk, that should work. And I ordered the 3/8" Parts Express gasket for the speakers and for the front baffle.

So here is a another good discussion topic. How to mount front baffle and seal but allow it to be removable and adjustable.

I planned to buy corner gussets from Rockler and some cap nut connector bolts from Rockler (search "cap nuts" on Rockler website). Then just mount the front baffle to those corner gussets. In addition I was going to use the 3/8" foam as a gasket for the front baffle. Think this will work?
This is a modification to Zaph's design, see zaphaudio's (Design Mantra section) for what he does. I did not agree with having the 1/4" front baffle mounted to the a front section (see CAD pdf for what I am talking about if curious) so I am just using one piece for the front.

 

[Guiria]

How many here do 45 degree cuts vs 90 degree?

I intend to do a test cabinet or two and see if I can get the hang of it. My hopes are that it will put to rest the exposed edge of boards and make for less finish work.

I'd be interested in your results and experience using 45 degree cuts. Post something if/when you ever try it.

 

[Swerd]

So here is a another good discussion topic. How to mount front baffle and seal but allow it to be removable and adjustable.

I planned to buy corner gussets from Rockler and some cap nut connector bolts from Rockler (search "cap nuts" on Rockler website). Then just mount the front baffle to those corner gussets. In addition I was going to use the 3/8" foam as a gasket for the front baffle. Think this will work?

This is a modification to Zaph's design, see zaphaudio's (Design Mantra section) for what he does. I did not agree with having the 1/4" front baffle mounted to the a front section (see CAD pdf for what I am talking about if curious) so I am just using one piece for the front.

It seems like that should work. I'm not sure what the corner gussets from Rockler look like, but any appropriately sized piece of wood mounted in the corners should work.

The Parts Express cabinets use a similar mounting system, with hex head cap screws and hurricane or T-nuts. It works well. You can always counter sink the holes for the hex head cap screws so they don't protrude from the baffle.

 

[Swerd]

It seems like that should work. I'm not sure what the corner gussets from Rockler look like, but any appropriately sized piece of wood mounted in the corners should work.

The Parts Express cabinets use a similar mounting system, with hex head cap screws and hurricane or T-nuts. It works well. You can always counter sink the holes for the hex head cap screws so they don't protrude from the baffle.

On second thought, what will keep the threaded receptacle (the inside part) of those cap nut connectors from rotating in its mounting hole? If they aren't firmly set, you won't be able to tighten the screws very well. And it might also be troublesome to remove the bolts if the inner parts spins in its hole.

You could epoxy the inside part into their mounting holes. I'd rather use hurricane nuts.

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks everyone. Test fit the boxes yesterday. Not as bad as I thought. Might have some sanding to do but since most of the cuts where 1/16" off I kind of have a slight parallelogram for both boxes (which migh help off-axis response!... just kidding).

Ordered all parts too from MCM, Madisound, Partsexpress, and Rockler... should be fun...

I can't belive the weight on these things already, they weight more then my floor standing speakers with a 10" woofer in it... should sound awesome.

Question, I will probably not have all joints airtight due to my slight accuracy issues, what the best way to ensure air tight fit so I don't get any leakage. Heavy duty chaulk on the inside?

The best glue is titebond according to torsion machine testing for wood to wood bonds.

I suggest it for any speaker project not exposed to water or high humidity. because its the strongest, it dries fast, it's easy to cleanup. It is sufficient to seal if you use enough of it. But I suggest not overdoing it too much. You can use acrylic caulk on the seams to pretty much seal it. If you have gaps on the exterior bondo works wonders.

 

[lsiberian]

How many here do 45 degree cuts vs 90 degree?

I intend to do a test cabinet or two and see if I can get the hang of it. My hopes are that it will put to rest the exposed edge of boards and make for less finish work.

I'd use a router table for making the miters, but i think it'd be easier to just laminate the box. Though I've considered what you are talking about for fun. Try it and let us know how it turns out.

I've also thought of using dovetails for fun.