Say no to socialism!!!

[Nemo128]

I find it amazing that such a gray area issue seems to be argued in black and white terms. that is why the country is fubar, not because of socialism, communism and scary words. can't ever have anything moderate that makes sense in america.

private industry is good at making profit, and "profit" is not always the same as "best possible product" or "public well-being". Sure, sometimes it happens to be the same, but that is coincidental. Nobody ever insists that Hannah Montana or the Jonas Brothers are the best at anything other than making kids spend money. I don't want the Jonas Brothers of health care, which is what we have now. Maybe should we can Bose as an example of how profit doesn't always lead to a better product.

imo, this is the reason nobody ever wants to privatize the military... and it makes perfect sense to me; I don't think the military should be privatized, because I don't want our military chasing profit. It's just that nobody seems to want to admit the inconsistency here because they have to have faith in the private industry in order to march to their team's drums in this particular case. Government may be retarded, but at least you can have a bottom line that isn't profit.

you never hear anybody (at least in the political circle) say we should just throw out medicare and let private industry insure the old people, even though that'd take care of a huge portion of our financial burden as a nation, which is the real reason we need reform. insurance companies have already shown that the old folks are not worth insuring if you want to chase profits. I just don't see how you can make a business model that includes the old folks; insuring old people for medical care is the complete opposite of chasing profits.

Excellent post. I love the Bose correlation. People here screaming till they're blue that government should run more like private industry. HA!

Hooker Chemical, Bose, GM & Chrysler, MCI Worldcom, Enron, Exxon Valdez, the list goes on and on AND ON AND ON! That was only 2 seconds worth of thinking of examples! Private industry is full of Bernie Madoffs that we will never know about, and there are very VERY few Warren Buffets in the world today. Profits drive all, public well-being be damned. If someone doesn't see that, they're blissfully ignorant.

And what schools do people attend where communism = socialism?!?! I can see the googling commence without looking at your screens too...

YOU live in a plutocracy with a puppet government. Get it through your heads already. Your political party means jack, your clouded vision of personal grandure and success are misguilded, and you only defend the upper 2% because you hold onto that clouded vision as if the system as it is will allow you to rise to that level at some point in your life. Private industry is not our saving grace, it's a machine that has been given so much power that it would sooner watch you drown in your own feces than flush a single toilet if it means it gets to increase its profits.

Sad thing is, with most people there is no in-between. There is the correct idea (theirs) and every other idea (anyone else's). I don't think someone younger than me is a clueless idiot and someone older than me is out of touch with reality. We could all come up with a most-some (satisfy most of the people some of the time) solution together, but that wouldn't be the right way. Majority rules and no one else's opinions or situation mean squat.

 

[rnatalli]

"We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off."

-Tyler Durden

 

[markw]

Close, but no cigar.

YOU live in a plutocracy with a puppet government. Get it through your heads already. Your political party means jack, your clouded vision of personal grandure and success are misguilded, and you only defend the upper 2% because you hold onto that clouded vision as if the system as it is will allow you to rise to that level at some point in your life. Private industry is not our saving grace, it's a machine that has been given so much power that it would sooner watch you drown in your own feces than flush a single toilet if it means it gets to increase its profits.

Aside fron a few statistical outliers such as sports figures, entertainers and a few gifted inventors, I'd say this is more of an oigarchy which is made up of the heads of big business, banking, government, and those who serve them.

But, I don't see where the current administration is doing significant to change it. Perhaps shaking the snow-globe to make a show, but no real changes.

 

[redass]

funny, I work for private industry, and I just witnessed two of my coworkers going to target to look for a bottle of rubbing alcohol... very efficient, no waste!

 

[lsiberian]

Excellent post. I love the Bose correlation. People here screaming till they're blue that government should run more like private industry. HA!

Hooker Chemical, Bose, GM & Chrysler, MCI Worldcom, Enron, Exxon Valdez, the list goes on and on AND ON AND ON! That was only 2 seconds worth of thinking of examples! Private industry is full of Bernie Madoffs that we will never know about, and there are very VERY few Warren Buffets in the world today. Profits drive all, public well-being be damned. If someone doesn't see that, they're blissfully ignorant.

And what schools do people attend where communism = socialism?!?! I can see the googling commence without looking at your screens too...

YOU live in a plutocracy with a puppet government. Get it through your heads already. Your political party means jack, your clouded vision of personal grandure and success are misguilded, and you only defend the upper 2% because you hold onto that clouded vision as if the system as it is will allow you to rise to that level at some point in your life. Private industry is not our saving grace, it's a machine that has been given so much power that it would sooner watch you drown in your own feces than flush a single toilet if it means it gets to increase its profits.

Sad thing is, with most people there is no in-between. There is the correct idea (theirs) and every other idea (anyone else's). I don't think someone younger than me is a clueless idiot and someone older than me is out of touch with reality. We could all come up with a most-some (satisfy most of the people some of the time) solution together, but that wouldn't be the right way. Majority rules and no one else's opinions or situation mean squat.

News Flash

1. You are in the top 2% and living like a rock star from a global perspective. .

2.The healthcare crisis here doesn't compare to many other places in the world. Where a 2 dollar bottle of medicine can save the life of a child in many countries.

The good news is a lot of folks are out there to help people and are doing their part. We've had non profit organizations helping people for years that I think do it far better than the government ever could. I suggest we free up resources to let them do it instead of the government.

It's easy to have doom and gloom when half the world lives on very little, but we can make a difference. The first step is to quit looking at numbers and start seeing individuals instead. Everyone has different needs for success that's a well known fact.

Business isn't as bad as people think. Remember it gives you opportunity to excel and managers help people find their best positions.

Also since you can go and buy shares of any publicly traded company then you too can benefit from their profits. When Exxon does well a lot of people benefit.

 

[Rickster71]

I find it amazing that such a gray area issue seems to be argued in black and white terms. that is why the country is fubar, not because of socialism, communism and scary words. can't ever have anything moderate that makes sense in america.

private industry is good at making profit, and "profit" is not always the same as "best possible product" or "public well-being". Sure, sometimes it happens to be the same, but that is coincidental. Nobody ever insists that Hannah Montana or the Jonas Brothers are the best at anything other than making kids spend money. I don't want the Jonas Brothers of health care, which is what we have now. Maybe should we can Bose as an example of how profit doesn't always lead to a better product.

imo, this is the reason nobody ever wants to privatize the military... and it makes perfect sense to me; I don't think the military should be privatized, because I don't want our military chasing profit. It's just that nobody seems to want to admit the inconsistency here because they have to have faith in the private industry in order to march to their team's drums in this particular case. Government may be retarded, but at least you can have a bottom line that isn't profit.

It is a very 'grey area' so why muddy the waters further with comparisons to bose and... Hannah Montana?

And let's change 'scarey words' like Socialism, to Big Government.

Lets also discuss my earlier on topic post:

The government rarely does anything better. Even with taxpayer subsidies, the U.S. Post Office can't figure out how to deliver mail or packages as well as UPS and FedEx. (Don't want it to run like the private sector, just better)

September 11th happened because of multi-level government failure. (Too much to go into here.)
So, the solution to such government incompetence is to give the government more power?? It was wrong when Bush did it, and it's wrong now!

 

[rnatalli]

Even with taxpayer subsidies, the U.S. Post Office can't figure out how to deliver mail or packages as well as UPS and FedEx. (Don't want it to run like the private sector, just better)

This is a bad example. I always use USPS over the others when shipping to Russia as the others cost 3 times as much and suck at making deliveries. Lets also not forget the comparison in volume. USPS delivers multiple items to every home in the U.S everyday except Sunday. If FedEx and UPS were in charge of the mail, we'd be paying to receive mail let alone send it and that's a mess all in itself. Imagine what a gold mine they'd have charging people for those Pottery Barn catalogs they don't want with no one to oppose them. I'll take the inefficient USPS anyday.

 

[rnatalli]

The good news is a lot of folks are out there to help people and are doing their part. We've had non profit organizations helping people for years that I think do it far better than the government ever could. I suggest we free up resources to let them do it instead of the government.

I work for a non-profit and its amazing how many people work themselves to death for the benefit of others. Yes we're paid well and have good benefits, but nothing compared to what some could be earning in the for-profit world. Just because you take profit out of the equation does not mean people are no longer willing to work hard. One can still earn promotions and advance individually in the non-profit world.

Just to clarify, just because an organization is non-profit, does not mean they can't make a profit. The difference is that the profit can not be used to benefit the trustees directly. In other words, no one gets their pockets lined. Any profit made has to be used for building a corporate reserve or investing into the company directly in some way. For example, profit can be used for things generally restricted such as publishing. It can not be used to lobby directly.

 

[redass]

bose and hannah montana were examples of how "profit" is not always equivalent to "better". I understand that one of my sentences didn't make any sense at all ("Maybe should we can Bose as an example" ), but they are perfectly good examples of how profit does not necessarily lead to a spectacular product.

UPS, Fedex and the postal service don't do the same job. I've never received a stack of unsolicited junkmail from fedex, have you?

health care needs reform because of the failure of the entire system, which happens to include private health insurance companies and the government. pretending that anything else is the case is simply ridiculous. people don't get denied for treatment because of a government-mandated pre-conditions. litigation isn't out of control because of government-mandated lawyers.

just remember that you don't speak german and goosestep your way around town while paying $400 to a monopoly for a pound of scrap cast iron due to "government incompetence", as well.

 

[Hicks]

I absolutely have no doubt that everyone against government run health care will decline to use their medicare benefits once they are eligible.

Also USPS does an amazing job IMO, I can't think of a single time they've lost one of my packages and I send things out quite frequently.

 

[split0101]

Just to clarify, just because an organization is non-profit, does not mean they can't make a profit. The difference is that the profit can not be used to benefit the trustees directly. In other words, no one gets their pockets lined. Any profit made has to be used for building a corporate reserve or investing into the company directly in some way.

I see this all the time, non-profit hospitals make a profit and buys up real estate to build "clinics". It doesnt matter if they already have a clinic next door, they have to do something with those profits, right?

I have family and friends that work in healthcare (non profit), and the stories they tell me would make you think they are talking about AIG, GM, and every other big "for profit" that has milked the US taxpayer.

Not all non for profits work like this but a majority seem too, plus lets not forget the tax breaks

 

[Nemo128]

I absolutely have no doubt that everyone against government run health care will decline to use their medicare benefits once they are eligible.

Also USPS does an amazing job IMO, I can't think of a single time they've lost one of my packages and I send things out quite frequently.

Damn right. Maybe the people who received the dozen BDs I sent out in the last two weeks (from sales on THIS site's Classifieds) can confirm that fact. And as someone who has sold a whole lot of stuff on eBay, Craigs, now here, and plenty of other places, I can say the USPS gets it right FAR more times than not.

UPS, on the other hand... oh man, I can tell you nightmare stories... but FedEx is still my fave, cept for their pricing.

 

[highfigh]

The government rarely does anything better. Even with taxpayer subsidies, the U.S. Post Office can't figure out how to deliver mail or packages as well as UPS and FedEx.

I have had zero problems with USPS deliveries and the same goes for UPS and FedEx. The problems I had were due to bad packaging.

Maybe the DMV is a better example, eh?

 

[rnatalli]

Maybe the DMV is a better example, eh?

Maybe 15 years ago. The online services they offer now are quick and easy (at least here in MA). I can't say the same for my insurance company.

 

[Rickster71]

This is a bad example. I always use USPS over the others when shipping to Russia as the others cost 3 times as much and suck at making deliveries. Lets also not forget the comparison in volume. USPS delivers multiple items to every home in the U.S everyday except Sunday. If FedEx and UPS were in charge of the mail, we'd be paying to receive mail let alone send it and that's a mess all in itself. Imagine what a gold mine they'd have charging people for those Pottery Barn catalogs they don't want with no one to oppose them. I'll take the inefficient USPS anyday.

The post office is a government-protected monopoly; 19th century laws make it illegal for anyone else to deliver letters. It's also exempt from state and federal taxes and free from most government regulations.
The post office even gets to set the minimum price its private competitors can charge: A letter must cost at least $3 or twice the applicable first-class rate

 

[Rickster71]

UPS, Fedex and the postal service don't do the same job. I've never received a stack of unsolicited junkmail from fedex, have you?

The post office is a government-protected monopoly; 19th century laws make it illegal for anyone else to deliver letters. It's also exempt from state and federal taxes and free from most government regulations.
The post office even gets to set the minimum price its private competitors can charge: A letter must cost at least $3 or twice the applicable first-class rate

 

[lsiberian]

Also USPS does an amazing job IMO, I can't think of a single time they've lost one of my packages and I send things out quite frequently.

All letters processing is now automated completely.

Packages are still done manually. Though that may change with flat rate boxes.

I can't got into too many details without getting jailed or suited, but I've seen the main mail facilities and I trust sending my stuff through that system anyday of the week. They even have an automated forwarded system if you fill out a change of address that they were implementing when I left the contractor.

It's pretty awesome to say the least.

 

[Rickster71]

All letters processing is now automated completely.

Packages are still done manually.

I still get my neighbor's mail and they get ours, once a week.
They must not look at the address, and if one bundle gets put in the wrong box, the whole street is off, until the mail person notices it.

 

[split0101]

I have nothing against the post office. It does what it needs to pretty well. I send in my bills and they always seem to make it to whoever

 

[Nemo128]

19th century laws make it illegal for anyone else to deliver letters.

I thought 20th century technology also made it almost obsolete to mail letters. Online billpay, free e-mail, dozen megapixel cameras... laugh a lil, why so serious.

I still get all my bills on paper though. Know why? Cuz I've filed (and won) enough credit disputes to know not to trust these oh-so-wonderful flawless and well-meaning private enterprises of ours...

Which leads me to another thought... do any of you want your insurance services outsourced to India like every other service we have? Nothing against Indians, after all, Dell's shitty tech support keeps me swimming in freelance gigs since they can't do anything right.