Why can't we keep score?

[adwilk]

I hope this topic hasn't been posted before, I certainly couldn't find it.

Let me preface this by saying, I don't have kids, maybe I don't understand.


Listening to a local sports radio show this morning, I was reminded of something. Up to a certain age in sports, they quit keeping track of wins, losses, even the score.

That bothers me a bit. As much as you learn the fundamentals and how to compete at anything, you also learn how to WIN.

I'm just curious what your thoughts are. I see both sides I think, but I'm interested in some arguments.

 

[lsiberian]

I hope this topic hasn't been posted before, I certainly couldn't find it.

Let me preface this by saying, I don't have kids, maybe I don't understand.


Listening to a local sports radio show this morning, I was reminded of something. Up to a certain age in sports, they quit keeping track of wins, losses, even the score.

That bothers me a bit. As much as you learn the fundamentals and how to compete at anything, you also learn how to WIN.

I'm just curious what your thoughts are. I see both sides I think, but I'm interested in some arguments.

4/5 year olds have no business keeping score IMO, because being a good sport needs to be learned first. We didn't keep score in Teeball because they wanted to teach us sportsmanship first.

 

[bandphan]

Everyones a winner and no irrate shouting nut job parents.

 

[agarwalro]

It is for the same reason that teachers are being told to give minimum passing grade to everyone. For the same reason that a given size in clothing is way bigger than it used to be (or currently is in Europe and Asia). For the same reason that there is a "condition" to explain why you or your kid sucks and a pill to cure it.

Inability to accept the facts honestly and coddling mediocrity.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

We kept score when I was a kid. I seemed to have turned out alright.

BTW, I never lost at anything....

 

[redass]

4/5 year olds have no business keeping score IMO, because being a good sport needs to be learned first. We didn't keep score in Teeball because they wanted to teach us sportsmanship first.

but you're supposed to be a good sport when the score is kept...

isn't that kind of like teaching kids how to swing a bat without using a bat?

 

[adwilk]

It is for the same reason that teachers are being told to give minimum passing grade to everyone. For the same reason that a given size in clothing is way bigger than it used to be (or currently is in Europe and Asia). For the same reason that there is a "condition" to explain why you or your kid sucks and a pill to cure it.

Inability to accept the facts honestly and coddling mediocrity.

But that doesnt make it "ok" right?

I get the "crazy parents" argument. but you're not solving the issue, just delaying it.

As far as sportsmanship goes, one of the most relevant things to learn regarding sportsmanship is how to win and lose properly.

I understand we don't want to pressure certain kids and that some might not take it well. I get it. But what are we REALLY teaching them. Shouldnt they start knowing at an early age that you get what you work for, there are no free rides. If everybody gets a trophy, then why should I dedicate my time an effort to be better than you?

Certainly not my intention at all, but it does have some serious political undertones.

I think its crap. Let little Johnny get beat once or twice and then let him decide if he's gonna work harder to better himself, establish himself as a leader or venture down a different path.

On the other hand, at least their exercising.

 

[agarwalro]

But that doesnt make it "ok" right?

I get the "crazy parents" argument. but you're not solving the issue, just delaying it.

Yup, I was not trying to justify... rather saying why. You hit the nail on the head with the comments regarding delaying, indeed even preventing, the learnings.

It is too true, today's parents are extremely overprotective. But, what they don't realize is, once the children are no longer in the cocoon created by the parents, they are ill equiped to deal with the real world.

 

[bandphan]

Ive come pretty close to jacking up some girls dad after he yelled at her for 2 innings straight for not catching a fly ball(this is the 6-8 year old league). If it wasnt for the fear of my daughter seeing me drag some dirt bag parent around the feild, Id have done it. Even some of the coaches in these leagues are out control. I can understand the "under 9" no score rule for most leagues, aside around here there is always league options that do keep score. BTW Adam we keep score in Fantasy Football

 

[Rickster71]

But that doesnt make it "ok" right?

I get the "crazy parents" argument. but you're not solving the issue, just delaying it.

As far as sportsmanship goes, one of the most relevant things to learn regarding sportsmanship is how to win and lose properly.

I understand we don't want to pressure certain kids and that some might not take it well. I get it. But what are we REALLY teaching them. Shouldnt they start knowing at an early age that you get what you work for, there are no free rides. If everybody gets a trophy, then why should I dedicate my time an effort to be better than you?

Certainly not my intention at all, but it does have some serious political undertones.

I think its crap. Let little Johnny get beat once or twice and then let him decide if he's gonna work harder to better himself, establish himself as a leader or venture down a different path.

On the other hand, at least their exercising.

Couldn't agree more. It's a slow / planned downward spiral toward mediocrity.
Why not give extra help to the under-achievers, and help them excel? Why 'dumb down' the whole system?

 

[rnatalli]

It is for the same reason that teachers are being told to give minimum passing grade to everyone. For the same reason that a given size in clothing is way bigger than it used to be (or currently is in Europe and Asia). For the same reason that there is a "condition" to explain why you or your kid sucks and a pill to cure it.

Inability to accept the facts honestly and coddling mediocrity.

I'm with agarwalro on this one. I'm tired of excuses and having to be politically correct about everything.

 

[adwilk]

BTW Adam we keep score in Fantasy Football

Good deal, I was hoping there would be a numerical value to the @$$ beatings I'll be handing out..

See, I learned sportsmanship...

You'll still get your orange slices and juice box after the game though, Scott.

 

[majorloser]

I would have to agree that learning how to lose is part of the game. It also makes winning that much more desirable of a goal to achieve. Whether it's organized sports or just a board game, children need to learn that there is always a winner and a loser. And being the loser of the game doesn't make you a loser in life (working for the government makes you a loser).

There is always somebody out there better than you. Learning how to pick yourself up and try again is one of the hardest lessons to learn. Learning to be a good sport about it is even harder.

 

[adwilk]

I would have to agree that learning how to lose is part of the game. It also makes winning that much more desirable of a goal to achieve. Whether it's organized sports or just a board game, children need to learn that there is always a winner and a loser. And being the loser of the game doesn't make you a loser in life (working for the government makes you a loser).

There is always somebody out there better than you. Learning how to pick yourself up and try again is one of the hardest lessons to learn. Learning to be a good sport about it is even harder.

Really good post and very solid points. I guess the question is when is it too soon to learn those lessons. You must have lost a lot, Majorloser....

 

[Rickster71]

Many of the 'over involved' parents see sports as a way to getting college $cholarship$ if there kids do well.
It wasn't like that thirty years ago.
My parents never came to any of my games, and I turned out just ......OK, bad example.

 

[CraigV]

The way it plays out for a lot of young kids is – get them involved in playing the game and teach them the fundamentals. Then if they show an interest, sign them up for a league where they do keep score AND learn to win & lose gracefully.


BTW - I thought this was a thread about "chicklets"

 

[adwilk]

and I turned out just .......

Not that theres anything wrong with that....

 

[adwilk]

The way it plays out for a lot of young kids is – get them involved in playing the game and teach them the fundamentals. Then if they show an interest, sign them up for a league where they do keep score AND learn to win & lose gracefully.

I'll buy that... that seems reasonable enough.


You think these kids know if they won or lost the video game they were playing on the way to the field?

 

[majorloser]

You must have lost a lot, Majorloser....

No, worked for a lot of government agencies.

 

[majorloser]

BTW - I thought this was a thread about "chicklets"

Nah, the chicklets already prove we can't keep score.
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