The government takes first steps to the "Turn in your neighbor" policy

[rnatalli]

This, but Bush did this or Bush did that, is getting tiresome.

With Obama in office, you're getting of taste of what many of us have felt for 8 years. Someone implementing policy you think is stupid. Bush's policies drove us into the ground. It remains to be seen if Obama's will do the same. Only with time we'll actually know which policies were more stupid.

 

[Alex2507]

Don't you lump me in with Bush lovers.

Better late than never. Congratulations on being such an inspiration to old homos everywhere.

Alright RJ, let me apologize now. I figure why wait. I absolutely could not resist.

 

[Adam]

I'm turning you all in.

 

[highfigh]

With Obama in office, you're getting of taste of what many of us have felt for 8 years. Someone implementing policy you think is stupid. Bush's policies drove us into the ground. It remains to be seen if Obama's will do the same. Only with time we'll actually know which policies were more stupid.

Bush didn't take us toward socialism. He didn't campaign against someone on the point that the past POTUS, from the opponent's same party inflated the deficit to $3Trillion and then turn around and quadruple it, saying it was to stimulate the economy. Bush was beaten to death for his tax rebates for the same reason and Obama is praised for putting your great, great, great great grandchildren in debt?

I didn't like Bush all that much but I have serious problems with what Obama said he wanted to do , starting about 2 months into his campaign., I actually liked a lot of what he was saying and then, after I looked into his "experience", I saw that he was only telling people what he knew they wanted to hear. I really have a problem with his having taught Constitutional Law for over 10 years. That scares the shyte out of me because with his slant, I'm pretty sure he has thought of many ways to bypass or nullify every Amendment and Article. The parallels with Natsi Germany are too close for my comfort and if he does what I think he's planning, we'll be truly screwed.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

 

[dylancash]

That scares the shyte out of me because with his slant, I'm pretty sure he has thought of many ways to bypass or nullify every Amendment and Article. The parallels with Natsi Germany are too close for my comfort and if he does what I think he's planning, we'll be truly screwed.
(

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Are you serious? Nazi Germany? Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Nazi Germany? What? Nazi Germany? You are "pretty sure" he has thought of many ways to bypass or nullify the constitution? Sounds completely reasonable to me. Why just pretty sure and not completely sure, lol? Let me guess, he was born in Kenya too. If there weren't so many of you guys I would laugh, but the far extremes of this country are going to do us in. But I forget, you guys are the only ones who know the "truth".

 

[highfigh]

And by the way, what is with Obama's 44 (and counting) Czars??!! Are these big paying jobs given to cronies or do they have real power? One, the "Green Jobs Czar" is a self-avowed Communist, former Black Nationalist and prison inmate, Van Jones. http://www.mountainhomenews.com/blogs/1290/entry/28905/ Another, John Holdren the Science Czar, has promoted mandatory abortion and population controls via government tainting of water supplies. http://www.lifenews.com/nat5268.html

Just what is going on in DC!?!?!?!

I'm with Jamie...but I'm glad I'm in an out of the way rural area, too.

To answer your questions, yes and yes. He isn't just placing people around DC and they can't be recalled bu us because they weren't voted in. Congress can remove them if they want, but with the general population there, that will never happen unless they go way too far and by then, it'll be too late.

Being in a rural area means nothing when they want to mess with the water supply but the population density makes it less efficient. They have all of the USGS data on where the underground aquifers are and all they would have to do is drill (like they're installing a new well) and deposit whatever they want. If they want you to glow in the dark, you will.

 

[highfigh]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Are you serious? Nazi Germany? Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Nazi Germany? What? Nazi Germany? You are "pretty sure" he has thought of many ways to bypass or nullify the constitution? Sounds completely reasonable to me. Why just pretty sure and not completely sure, lol? Let me guess, he was born in Kenya too. If there weren't so many of you guys I would laugh, but the far extremes of this country are going to do us in. But I forget, you guys are the only ones who know the "truth".

He was voted into office by people who couldn't be sure about his past and to be honest, I doubt many actually cared. When a candidate for that office is vetted, I want all of their background revealed, not just what that candidate allows. Think about it- he basically came from nowhere to be elected to the Illinois Senate. A community organizer? WTH is that? His name was made by people who should have been in prison (many of them) and he advanced in "The Chicago Way". He said he wouldn't run for POTUS until his first US Senate term was over and shortly after, announced his candidacy. He was fast-tracked by many of the same people he named as czars, too many of his cabinet nominees were revealed as tax dodgers and his friends have been revealed as so far left they're tapping the extreme right on the shoulder. His political ambitions never surfaced until he met Michelle and he really didn't have much direction before that time. He has been fast-tracked the whole way through his political career and he doesn't let out much information, which makes me very suspicious.I don't care which side does this, either- left, center or right.

Look at how Germany was taken over- Hitler found the issues where the people wanted change and promised that. Then, they took over every aspect of the country- manufacturing, banking, housing, the press and took away everyone's guns. Then, they invaded other countries. War is usually the most efficient way to put more people to work. They had the Youth Corps, which sounds awfully similar to what Obama wants to do with his civil corps, which would have uniforms, be "funded at least as well as the military" and they haven't stopped using any of the Bush anti-terror measures that many claimed were so terrible.

Never said I know the "truth" and I agree that the extremes are going to do us in. I'm not an extremist in my ideas about how our government should be run. I'm just extremely suspicious of who we have in our government and of their plans for this country.

How much digging have you done into what Obama wants to do? If you read mainstream media, you'll never see it. I'm not saying that you need to listen to talk radio, either. Those people are insane and I mean on both sides.

If you voted for Obama only because he's a Democrat, you voted for the wrong reason. A candidate should stand on their own merits, IMO. If he had offered what I want for the country, I would have voted for him but D, R and I mean much less than what the candidate says, does and means. The problem is that the best candidates never want to run for that office. We get what we get only because they do want in and I can't remember a single President who didn't have something going on that was somewhat sleazy, immoral or blatantly illegal.

 

[rnatalli]

Bush didn't take us toward socialism. He didn't campaign against someone on the point that the past POTUS, from the opponent's same party inflated the deficit to $3Trillion and then turn around and quadruple it, saying it was to stimulate the economy. Bush was beaten to death for his tax rebates for the same reason and Obama is praised for putting your great, great, great great grandchildren in debt?

Bush is the one who put our great grandchildren in debt. The only reason the deficit is large this year is because the Obama administration is including line items the Bush administration conveniently left out. Lets remember that it was Bush who added over $5 trillion to the debt overall for no good reason. I don't recall such an outrage during the last 8 years. Granted, a chunk of the stimulus spending is wasteful, but much of it is investing in useful areas and the wasteful spending pales in comparison to how much the Bush administration flushed down the toilet. War has not helped us stimulate the economy.

 

[highfigh]

Bush is the one who put our great grandchildren in debt. The only reason the deficit is large this year is because the Obama administration is including line items the Bush administration conveniently left out. Lets remember that it was Bush who added over $5 trillion to the debt overall for no good reason. I don't recall such an outrage during the last 8 years. Granted, a chunk of the stimulus spending is wasteful, but much of it is investing in useful areas and the wasteful spending pales in comparison to how much the Bush administration flushed down the toilet. War has not helped us stimulate the economy.

IIRC, the debt at Bush's departure was $3T and it's having far more than that added to it. We'll never see an accurate account of who spent how much, for what and when it actually goes onto the books. Like anything else in government, what we're told depends on who wants us to know it and to manipulate us for their purposes. Try to remember, you're referring to the last 8 years and anything a President spends is cumulative. The first couple of years is usually spent dealing with what the last one did/didn't do.

Far too much of Obama's Porkulus is wasteful and generally, when something that large is rolled out, the first thing they do is add people to implement it. That means the first jobs to grow are in government, where bennies are plenty and job security is high.

If you really look at the numbers, the total of the wars since '01 isn't even $1T. Not that this is good but it's not much more than the initial bailout total ($787B).

From the New York Times article, "Six months after the passage of the stimulus plan, economists said it had helped in limited but discernible ways. They said that the punch from increased government spending has helped the economy begin to bottom out faster than it would have otherwise. The tax cuts included in the plan, economists said, have had less of an impact because people tended to save the money or use it to pay down debt rather than spend it."

http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/subjects/u/united_states_economy/economic_stimulus/index.html

Make sure to click on 'Read More'.

This is good and bad. We didn't need a protracted recession but having that many people lose their jobs so suddenly was certainly not a good thing. The Public Works projects are widely being railed on for the uselessness of many of them. That's a $150B "Here- let's do this stuff but not look into which are really needed" waste, in too many cases.

When I referred to wars stimulating the economy, I meant during a bad recession or Depression. This is the single largest government sponsored act since WWII.

This pales to nothing.

 

[dylancash]

He was voted into office by people who couldn't be sure about his past and to be honest, I doubt many actually cared. When a candidate for that office is vetted, I want all of their background revealed, not just what that candidate allows. Think about it- he basically came from nowhere to be elected to the Illinois Senate. A community organizer? WTH is that? His name was made by people who should have been in prison (many of them) and he advanced in "The Chicago Way". He said he wouldn't run for POTUS until his first US Senate term was over and shortly after, announced his candidacy. He was fast-tracked by many of the same people he named as czars, too many of his cabinet nominees were revealed as tax dodgers and his friends have been revealed as so far left they're tapping the extreme right on the shoulder. His political ambitions never surfaced until he met Michelle and he really didn't have much direction before that time. He has been fast-tracked the whole way through his political career and he doesn't let out much information, which makes me very suspicious.I don't care which side does this, either- left, center or right.

Look at how Germany was taken over- Hitler found the issues where the people wanted change and promised that. Then, they took over every aspect of the country- manufacturing, banking, housing, the press and took away everyone's guns. Then, they invaded other countries. War is usually the most efficient way to put more people to work. They had the Youth Corps, which sounds awfully similar to what Obama wants to do with his civil corps, which would have uniforms, be "funded at least as well as the military" and they haven't stopped using any of the Bush anti-terror measures that many claimed were so terrible.

Never said I know the "truth" and I agree that the extremes are going to do us in. I'm not an extremist in my ideas about how our government should be run. I'm just extremely suspicious of who we have in our government and of their plans for this country.

How much digging have you done into what Obama wants to do? If you read mainstream media, you'll never see it. I'm not saying that you need to listen to talk radio, either. Those people are insane and I mean on both sides.

If you voted for Obama only because he's a Democrat, you voted for the wrong reason. A candidate should stand on their own merits, IMO. If he had offered what I want for the country, I would have voted for him but D, R and I mean much less than what the candidate says, does and means. The problem is that the best candidates never want to run for that office. We get what we get only because they do want in and I can't remember a single President who didn't have something going on that was somewhat sleazy, immoral or blatantly illegal.

I listen to all people. I have Glenn Beck, Keith Olberman, Bill O'Reilly all on my Tivo. I will gladly watch Lou Dobbs, Rachel Maddow or Hannity when they are on, but I don't tivo them. I am a political science junkie, so I hear ALL sides of the argument. I listen to Air America, and I listen to Patriot (XM right). I listen to Rush if he is on, but I also listen to the main stream media, the academia and the intellectually elite, because I am not threatened by their intelligence.

Where did Obama come from? He was born in Hawaii and raised mostly by his Grandma and his mother. He grew up like any normal single child American and went to college. He then went to law school and took a job that would help further his career in politics, a community organizer. Hitler on the other hand had already been in prison for anti government threats and had already written books about the problem with Jews, so you can see their rise to power is so similar.

As far as this fear you have, "Look at how Germany was taken over- Hitler found the issues where the people wanted change and promised that." Umm, yeah I guess thats a point, but get back to me when you look up the definition of what a politician is supposed to do. Just because Hitler want bat **** crazy doesn't mean every single politician is going to commit genocide for trying to change issues that people want fixed. Obama has done nothing in his entire life to lead a sane person to your conclusions that he will behave like Hitler. Its completely unfounded.

As far as this youth army, I have never seen anything taken so far out of context. You guys realize its like attacking the peace corp or the boy scouts. Absolutely nonsense. Its almost as nutty as Glenn Becks fear of Acorn. What a load of propaganda. Oh MY GOD! There is a special interest group that has influence with the government!!!! Glenn is really on to something there. Funny when I used to listen to him on the radio (before he was a big shot) I never once remember him talking about the impending religious right government takeover, which had much more influence over our previous administration than Acorn could even dream of having over this one. Honestly Beck used to be one of my favorites on radio but now he has become unhinged with Obama as president. He isn't the same that he used to be. He has decided he will just make his money by scaring people now. Sad.

Either way, I don't just listen to the main street media. I know all the bs that is being peddled by both sides right now, some of it has some merit, some of it is just paranoid propaganda designed to scare. I think our government is gamed and is too deeply in bed with the corporations to be really effective. I do think there is legitimate concern, but the powers that be would rather make us all look like paranoid fools to dillute the message and it seems like its working. Sorry, I will not be a tool for any wealthy special interest groups (ie DNC, RNC) who wants to convince me to spend my time and energy blaming and maligning George Bush or Barrack Obama since they aren't the real problem. Whether you decide to chase the rabbit down the hole is your decision, but the more people we have blindly digging down those holes we lose another person to try and turn this place around because NOBODY takes the fringe seriously (with good reason). Sunlight is the best dissenfectant they say.

 

[rnatalli]

IIRC, the debt at Bush's departure was $3T and it's having far more than that added to it.

$3T at the department of Bush Sr. At Clinton's departure, roughly $5T. And at GWB's departure, a whopping $10T. $10T minus $5T equals $5T GWB and his conservative party burnt. I doubt Obama will even approach that number in 8 years. His healthcare plan will total roughly $1T over ten years without taking on new debt which we all know is BS. It will likely add $500 billion or so to the debt over 10 years. As for the stimulus, even if all of it is spent, that's another $800 billion. I'm sure they'll be other projects, but those two are the largest we'll see from Obama and they don't even reach $2T.

 

[highfigh]

$3T at the department of Bush Sr. At Clinton's departure, roughly $5T. And at GWB's departure, a whopping $10T. $10T minus $5T equals $5T GWB and his conservative party burnt. I doubt Obama will even approach that number in 8 years. His healthcare plan will total roughly $1T over ten years without taking on new debt which we all know is BS. It will likely add $500 billion or so to the debt over 10 years. As for the stimulus, even if all of it is spent, that's another $800 billion. I'm sure they'll be other projects, but those two are the largest we'll see from Obama and they don't even reach $2T.

Sources?

Remember, I did post that I hope I'm wrong and it's too early to say that.

 

[rnatalli]

Sources?

Remember, I did post that I hope I'm wrong and it's too early to say that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

Sources at the bottom. Basically, GWB was running a roughly $300-$500B deficit in most years not including the wars. Over a period of 6-8 years, it adds up fast.

There's nothing wrong with debt; the real key is keeping the debt under 100% of annual GDP. We're probably not going to exceed that amount as lenders are already weary of lending the U.S. any more funds.

I hope you're wrong too...

 

[highfigh]

I listen to all people. I have Glenn Beck, Keith Olberman, Bill O'Reilly all on my Tivo. I will gladly watch Lou Dobbs, Rachel Maddow or Hannity when they are on, but I don't tivo them. I am a political science junkie, so I hear ALL sides of the argument. I listen to Air America, and I listen to Patriot (XM right). I listen to Rush if he is on, but I also listen to the main stream media, the academia and the intellectually elite, because I am not threatened by their intelligence.

Where did Obama come from? He was born in Hawaii and raised mostly by his Grandma and his mother. He grew up like any normal single child American and went to college. He then went to law school and took a job that would help further his career in politics, a community organizer. Hitler on the other hand had already been in prison for anti government threats and had already written books about the problem with Jews, so you can see their rise to power is so similar.

As far as this fear you have, "Look at how Germany was taken over- Hitler found the issues where the people wanted change and promised that." Umm, yeah I guess thats a point, but get back to me when you look up the definition of what a politician is supposed to do. Just because Hitler want bat **** crazy doesn't mean every single politician is going to commit genocide for trying to change issues that people want fixed. Obama has done nothing in his entire life to lead a sane person to your conclusions that he will behave like Hitler. Its completely unfounded.

As far as this youth army, I have never seen anything taken so far out of context. You guys realize its like attacking the peace corp or the boy scouts. Absolutely nonsense. Its almost as nutty as Glenn Becks fear of Acorn. What a load of propaganda. Oh MY GOD! There is a special interest group that has influence with the government!!!! Glenn is really on to something there. Funny when I used to listen to him on the radio (before he was a big shot) I never once remember him talking about the impending religious right government takeover, which had much more influence over our previous administration than Acorn could even dream of having over this one. Honestly Beck used to be one of my favorites on radio but now he has become unhinged with Obama as president. He isn't the same that he used to be. He has decided he will just make his money by scaring people now. Sad.

Either way, I don't just listen to the main street media. I know all the bs that is being peddled by both sides right now, some of it has some merit, some of it is just paranoid propaganda designed to scare. I think our government is gamed and is too deeply in bed with the corporations to be really effective. I do think there is legitimate concern, but the powers that be would rather make us all look like paranoid fools to dillute the message and it seems like its working. Sorry, I will not be a tool for any wealthy special interest groups (ie DNC, RNC) who wants to convince me to spend my time and energy blaming and maligning George Bush or Barrack Obama since they aren't the real problem. Whether you decide to chase the rabbit down the hole is your decision, but the more people we have blindly digging down those holes we lose another person to try and turn this place around because NOBODY takes the fringe seriously (with good reason). Sunlight is the best dissenfectant they say.

If you have seen my posts in other threads, you'd remember me saying that I think Congress needs to be re-populated and that the government is supposed to work for us, not the other way around. I used to think my dad was just a pessimist when he would ask "Is this the best we have?" whenever it was time for election campaigns and this was as far back as the mid-'60s. Looking back, I think he was just disgusted by all of the turds who paraded as anythbuting what they turned out to be.

"Where did Obama come from? He was born in Hawaii and raised mostly by his Grandma and his mother. He grew up like any normal single child American and went to college. He then went to law school and took a job that would help further his career in politics, a community organizer."

Who raised him is one thing- where he was raised is another and he didn't spend all of his life in America, unlike "any normal single child American". That's a pretty brief synopsis for someone who went from "I won't run for POTUS until after my first complete Senate term" to "I am a candidate for POTUS" in only a few months. I want to know a helluva lot more than that when I consider a candidate.

I wasn't calling Obama the same as Hitler. I was drawing parallels to how his party took over every aspect of the country's interests, which had been mostly private before. Banking, manufacturing, media, etc. Again, and in agreement with you, the extremes have been the problem.

 

[Tomorrow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

There's nothing wrong with debt; the real key is keeping the debt under 100% of annual GDP. We're probably not going to exceed that amount as lenders are already weary of lending the U.S. any more funds.

Strangely enough, I'm now finding that you and I are on the same sides of many discussions, rnatalli.

BUT...there is SO much wrong with this debt and deficit...not the least of which is the fact that our largest creditor is China. This fact alone presents one of the countries of most competitive concern (on many fronts) to the U.S. an ungodly amount of global and domestic policy influence. Secondly, all the factors that spell revenue for the government (successful small businesses and consequential new jobs) are being taxed and legislated into retreat...thereby ensuring increased indebtedness. And as long as the Feds keep printing money like it's for Monopoly games, the dollar and its value will continue to plummet. This debt will be handed to future generations without even a "Sorry" note.

Sometimes it's not size of a thing that counts (although that's pretty darn important ), but the spin you put on it. Do you want to borrow money from the B of A or from Vinny the Blade?

 

[Schupo]

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/

Now this greatly concerns me.

Didn't Obama get elected due to the viral community? Now he wants to stifle it when it's used to question his actions?

What's next? Re-education camps?

It's gonna be a long four years and heaven knows how many more to recover from them, if we can.

There is a ton of misinformation being spread around about Obama's health care plan. There are a lot of people out there who actually believe that Obama is going to try and kill your grandparents. There are no Obama death camps. This isn't socialized medicine, either. It's a health care plan which you can opt into or keep your current health care. Having a government-funded health care option will force the existing health insurance companies to reform. I can't believe that anyone on either side of the political spectrum would have any objection to competition in the marketplace.

Now, what the objective is as far as gathering this list of people who spread disinformation is, I don't know. I can see it being used to blacklist people, or I can see it being used to find those who are spreading disinformation and re-educate them about what's really going on.

 

[highfigh]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

Sources at the bottom. Basically, GWB was running a roughly $300-$500B deficit in most years not including the wars. Over a period of 6-8 years, it adds up fast.

There's nothing wrong with debt; the real key is keeping the debt under 100% of annual GDP. We're probably not going to exceed that amount as lenders are already weary of lending the U.S. any more funds.

I hope you're wrong too...

I think debt without thinking about how the final expenses will be paid is very wrong. If you read my tagline, you'll see how I really feel about all of this. IMO, they don't spend, they piss money away. Why they don't see that SOP is absolutely the wrong way to go about running a country is beyond me and these people in Congress trip all over themselves trying to convince us that they know what we need, that they're extremely intelligent and with them in office, everything will be just fine.

As I have said and posted before, they act like "I must have money, I still have checks".

 

[Tomorrow]

There is a ton of misinformation being spread around about Obama's health care plan. There are a lot of people out there who actually believe that Obama is going to try and kill your grandparents. There are no Obama death camps. This isn't socialized medicine, either. It's a health care plan which you can opt into or keep your current health care. Having a government-funded health care option will force the existing health insurance companies to reform. I can't believe that anyone on either side of the political spectrum would have any objection to competition in the marketplace.

Now, what the objective is as far as gathering this list of people who spread disinformation is, I don't know. I can see it being used to blacklist people, or I can see it being used to find those who are spreading disinformation and re-educate them about what's really going on.

You should read the House bill and decide for yourself. You might also be interested to know that there was an amendment proposed that the government financed option in the bill be the mandatory insurance for all members of congress. EVERY Democrat voted against that amendment. Why is that, do you suppose?

 

[Schupo]

You should read the House bill and decide for yourself. You might also be interested to know that there was an amendment proposed that the government financed option in the bill be the mandatory insurance for all members of congress. EVERY Democrat voted against that amendment. Why is that, do you suppose?

Because Congress already gets great health care, while so many in our country have to choose between putting food on the table and paying their medical bills. This health care is NOT MANDATORY. If you like your health care (as those in Congress do), then you don't opt into it.

 

[Tomorrow]

Because Congress already gets great health care, while so many in our country have to choose between putting food on the table and paying their medical bills. This health care is NOT MANDATORY. If you like your health care (as those in Congress do), then you don't opt into it.

Sorry. While I appreciate your altruistic intentions, universal healthcare is not the key ingredient here. We already have universal healthcare. Any resident (rightfully or illegally so), insured or uninsured, with or without money, may obtain medical care at any hospital at any time. The issue is the cost and the goal needs to be cost containment.

Here's another question you can ask yourself, Schupo. Why is it that we can have competitive auto and home owners/renters insurance but not medical insurance? Why is that? You have a choice of insurance companies COMPETING for your business when you insure an automobile. Competition ensures lower prices. But you most certainly do not have that right with health insurance. The federal government disallows in-state medical insurance competition. Only a federal stipulated insurance company may have (monopolistic) rights to sell medical insurance in your or any state. Are medical insurance rates sky high? You betcha! Now go ask yourself why, when yet another amendment was proposed to the House bill that made medical insuring a competitive-cross state lines process, that again you had unanymous "No" votes from the democrats.

You would do well to study the process and the details of the issues a bit more deeply.