Madisound RB2 Kit - ?'s about the sound/design

[alphaiii]

I am considering building 3 Madisound RB2's to use in a bedroom 3.1. I held off for various reasons, but I'm thinking about it yet again.

I just recently bought 2 pairs of AV123 ELT525M to use for this 3.1 setup. They are meant to replace the Energy RC-10/ENergy RC-Mini CC setup I had been using. I had no really problems with the Energy - in fact I like the RC speakers alot. But I was going for a perfect timbre match up front with 3 vertical bookshelves, and it was cheaper to go the AV123 route instead of buying a 2nd pair of RC-10's (which are now unavailable anyway).

Also, given that this is for mainly evening/late night movies, I figured the ELT525M's, being a much less sensitive speaker, wouldn't have quite the dynamic ability of the RC-10, and this would help a little with the quiet to loud volume swings that happen so often in movies.

Anyway, so now I have the ELT525M's, and my issues is the lack of intelligibility of dialogue. I noticed a sort of thickness/heaviness that makes voices sound jumbled together. Even with the AVR's dynamic range compression engaged, I find myself having to bump up the volume (and center channel) to get clear vocals, yet this again results in problems with the L/R sound effects being too loud. These speakers are still very new, and I've only watched one full movie....but even if they "break in" I don't know that they're going to magically clear up dialogue. I still have over 3 weeks left to return them, so that is an option.

This brings me to the Madisound RB2. I know they aren't the most sensitive speaker, but that's ok. As I said, this is for night time movies in the bedroom. I am thinking of going with a sealed design, and the speakers would be placed on stands about 10-12" from the rear wall.

This brings me to my ?'s...

Given the lack of baffle step compensation in the RB2 crossover, is there a problem going with the sealed design placed out from the wall?

And 2nd, how the RB2 sound for movies - how do they handle dialogue? Can I expect improvement in clarity of dialogue in moving to this sealed design?

Thanks in advance.

 

[lsiberian]

I am considering building 3 Madisound RB2's to use in a bedroom 3.1. I held off for various reasons, but I'm thinking about it yet again.

I just recently bought 2 pairs of AV123 ELT525M to use for this 3.1 setup. They are meant to replace the Energy RC-10/ENergy RC-Mini CC setup I had been using. I had no really problems with the Energy - in fact I like the RC speakers alot. But I was going for a perfect timbre match up front with 3 vertical bookshelves, and it was cheaper to go the AV123 route instead of buying a 2nd pair of RC-10's (which are now unavailable anyway).

Also, given that this is for mainly evening/late night movies, I figured the ELT525M's, being a much less sensitive speaker, wouldn't have quite the dynamic ability of the RC-10, and this would help a little with the quiet to loud volume swings that happen so often in movies.

Anyway, so now I have the ELT525M's, and my issues is the lack of intelligibility of dialogue. I noticed a sort of thickness/heaviness that makes voices sound jumbled together. Even with the AVR's dynamic range compression engaged, I find myself having to bump up the volume (and center channel) to get clear vocals, yet this again results in problems with the L/R sound effects being too loud. These speakers are still very new, and I've only watched one full movie....but even if they "break in" I don't know that they're going to magically clear up dialogue. I still have over 3 weeks left to return them, so that is an option.

This brings me to the Madisound RB2. I know they aren't the most sensitive speaker, but that's ok. As I said, this is for night time movies in the bedroom. I am thinking of going with a sealed design, and the speakers would be placed on stands about 10-12" from the rear wall.

This brings me to my ?'s...

Given the lack of baffle step compensation in the RB2 crossover, is there a problem going with the sealed design placed out from the wall?

And 2nd, how the RB2 sound for movies - how do they handle dialogue? Can I expect improvement in clarity of dialogue in moving to this sealed design?

Thanks in advance.

As a happy owner of the RB1 kit. I can tell you the SQ is excellent for the price. And the drivers are actually a nice deal. However a more fruitful endeavor may be to mod a pair of Infinity Primus cabinets by upgrading the bracing and dampening. You could also do a beta 20 mod too.

The reason I state this is that those speakers have excellent drivers and terrible cabinets relatively speaking. Wmax has many posts on how to improve existing cabinets i suggest you check them out.

As far as the kit goes It's best up against the wall. I don't suggest this out in open space without you adding a baffle compensation.

I also suggest the sealed version as I find the ported overly resonant.

Just tossing some other ideas out there. But if your up for a full build the RB kit is a nice start IMO.

 

[alphaiii]

Thanks for the reply...

In my limited experience with the Infinity Primus, I remember the tweeters being a little more forward than I like. And the Beta-20 are too big for my bedroom.

I did a little pricing - what it would cost to build the RB2 x 3...and since I would need to get pre-made cabinets, it looks like it might actually cost more than the 2 pairs of ELT525M's I just bought.

For some reason I thought I could do it cheaper, but it quickly adds up once you factor in all of the misc extras you need. Obviously, the big budget killer for me is needing to buy the cabinets (and I'm picked and want to get veneered cabinets).

So if I did these, I really should have them against the wall.....maybe I should build a pair to use as PC speakers instead...

 

[WmAx]

Thanks for the reply...

In my limited experience with the Infinity Primus, I remember the tweeters being a little more forward than I like. And the Beta-20 are too big for my bedroom.

I did a little pricing - what it would cost to build the RB2 x 3...and since I would need to get pre-made cabinets, it looks like it might actually cost more than the 2 pairs of ELT525M's I just bought.

For some reason I thought I could do it cheaper, but it quickly adds up once you factor in all of the misc extras you need. Obviously, the big budget killer for me is needing to buy the cabinets (and I'm picked and want to get veneered cabinets).

So if I did these, I really should have them against the wall.....maybe I should build a pair to use as PC speakers instead...

You really can't attribute 'forward' to the driver (tweeter on Primus); it's a function of the crossover used. I have used the midbass and tweeter in a reference quality 3 way monitor system; but this involved new crossover and completely revised cabinet systems. However, the Primus P250 is an excellent value IMO. It has very little 'forward' sound, and has a nice relaxed/smooth sound. Of course, like most speakers, the cabinet is highly resonant. You could not improve upon it for it's cost even if you went DIY. You can always add a tweeter pad control easily if you want, also.

RBH(and whatever the new name is for them) also have some great drivers and crossovers (though the mid-ranges don't quite match the Primus ones), and of course, resonant cabinets (standard problem).

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks for the reply...

In my limited experience with the Infinity Primus, I remember the tweeters being a little more forward than I like. And the Beta-20 are too big for my bedroom.

I did a little pricing - what it would cost to build the RB2 x 3...and since I would need to get pre-made cabinets, it looks like it might actually cost more than the 2 pairs of ELT525M's I just bought.

For some reason I thought I could do it cheaper, but it quickly adds up once you factor in all of the misc extras you need. Obviously, the big budget killer for me is needing to buy the cabinets (and I'm picked and want to get veneered cabinets).

So if I did these, I really should have them against the wall.....maybe I should build a pair to use as PC speakers instead...

contact Nick 51 on the Tech Talk forum for info on building RB Kit cabinets. He's experienced with them and does great work. These are superior to Beta 20s IMO.

 

[alphaiii]

Thanks for the info guys...

Chris,
Maybe I'm wrong on the series (maybe it wasn't Primus, but something older) since it's been awhile since I heard the speakers....but I remember them being a bit bright sounding.

If it was the Primus, redesigning a crossover, or even building one off an existing design is way beyond my skill area.

About all I'm comfortable with starting out with right now is something in kit form with pre-made cabinets and assembled crossovers. The rest may come down the road.

lsiberian,
I will check into the cabinets from Nick. I actually did come across his name in reading about the RB kits.

 

[alexwakelin]

maybe I should build a pair to use as PC speakers instead...

I've been using a pair as pc speakers for a while now, my only regret after building these to replace a cheapo 2.1 logitech system is I didn't go lossless when I ripped my entire (200+ disks) cd collection. I can easily hear a difference in quality now, which I couldn't before.

I'm using mine with a diy 8" sub which compliments them nicely. If you build the ported version you might be able to get by without one, they hit fairly low for their size. I braced and lined my cabinets, I don't notice any resonance issues with them, though maybe just I don't push them that hard since they are for near field use. I'm driving mine with a 2x20 watt bookshelf system receiver and they get plenty loud.

 

[alphaiii]

contact Nick 51 on the Tech Talk forum for info on building RB Kit cabinets. He's experienced with them and does great work. These are superior to Beta 20s IMO.

I contacted Nick from the PE forum...

Looks like his cabinet prices have gone up a bit.

At this point, I'm looking at over $200 for a finished product, so for me this build is starting to defeat the whole purpose of being a Recession Buster!

Looks like I'll be holding off for now...

 

[lsiberian]

I contacted Nick from the PE forum...

Looks like his cabinet prices have gone up a bit.

At this point, I'm looking at over $200 for a finished product, so for me this build is starting to defeat the whole purpose of being a Recession Buster!

Looks like I'll be holding off for now...

All you need is some screws, glue, a jig saw, a screw driver, screws, and a drill.