Professor Gates vs. Officer Crowley

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rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Just interested to see where people stand on this. I see both sides of the story, but lean in favor of the professor, but I don't believe anything is racially-motivated. I know police put up with a lot of crap, but IMO they can't go around arresting people in their own home because they're being disrespectful; that's assuming Gates was being rude and disrespectful. If someone's being disrespectful towards me in his/her home, I simply leave. By arresting Gates, the officer opened the entire Cambridge PD up to a lawsuit. They're not dealing with some punk in Dorchester who was shooting off his mouth, they're dealing with a Harvard professor who has powerful friends, Harvard lawyers, and a courtroom in a liberal state. Even the mayor has come out to say the PD can't do such things in the future which suggests a mistake has been made. In the end, the officer will be the fall guy.
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_harvard_scholar_arresting_officer

What the heck is the POTUS commenting on this for? Doesn't he have more pressing matters to attend to than some local dispute?

President Barack Obama elevated the dispute when he said Wednesday that Cambridge police "acted stupidly" during the encounter. Obama stepped back on Thursday, telling ABC News, "From what I can tell, the sergeant who was involved is an outstanding police officer, but my suspicion is probably that it would have been better if cooler heads had prevailed."
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
What the heck is the POTUS commenting on this for? Doesn't he have more pressing matters to attend to than some local dispute?
On the flip side, if he didn't address this issue, you'd have a lot of people wondering why he didn't.

He probably also doesn't mind taking an opportunity to direct attention away from those other pressing matters that aren't going so well. :)
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Just interested to see where people stand on this. I see both sides of the story, but lean in favor of the professor, but I don't believe anything is racially-motivated. I know police put up with a lot of crap, but IMO they can't go around arresting people in their own home because they're being disrespectful; that's assuming Gates was being rude and disrespectful. If someone's being disrespectful towards me in his/her home, I simply leave. By arresting Gates, the officer opened the entire Cambridge PD up to a lawsuit. They're not dealing with some punk in Dorchester who was shooting off his mouth, they're dealing with a Harvard professor who has powerful friends, Harvard lawyers, and a courtroom in a liberal state. Even the mayor has come out to say the PD can't do such things in the future which suggests a mistake has been made. In the end, the officer will be the fall guy.
Don't know, wasn't there.

The Police need to take command of any situations they're in, ASAP and this usually is done by being very assertive and direct, raising their voice so there's no doubt about what they say. Gates' neighbor reported a possible B&E, which the PD responded to. Gates, by his own admission, insulted Crowley's mother, refused to come out when ordered to and acted in a manner that is far from what I would expect from a college professor. However, he did exactly what I would expect from someone who resisted any form of authority in the '60s and I fully believe he's on the far Left side of the political aisle. If Gates is such an intellectual, why didn't he have a plan in case he locked himself out? People do it all the time and he should have thought of this. His neighbors didn't know who was trying to get in? What does that say?

In case you haven't seen it, here's a link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_harvard_scholar_arresting_officer

"They're not dealing with some punk in Dorchester who was shooting off his mouth, they're dealing with a Harvard professor who has powerful friends, Harvard lawyers, and a courtroom in a liberal state."

That's right, he's a Harvard Professor who was shooting his mouth off, not cooperating with a Police investigation and it's effin' wrong for him to rely on his connections to get him out of this. Throwing the race card out as soon as this came out is bullshid and I don't care that Obama is this guy's friend, BO should never have commented without knowing anything more than a few details. This DOES NOT deserve comment from the POTUS. His connection to this case is personal, not Presidential.

Gates was breaking into a house. It happens to be his house, but the officers received a call about a B&E at a house, by an unknown person. If the neighbors knew who was breaking in, they shouldn't have called. If they didn't, it's possible that they choose to not associate with Gates, vise-versa, one of them moved there very recently or they don't get along well. If I saw my neighbor breaking into their house, I would probably go out and try to help but it doesn't take long to find out who lives nearby.

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by Gates, Obama, the DA who dropped the charges and I'm absolutely certain Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the NAACP will be along to crucify Crowley shortly. The fact that Crowley has volunteered for 6 years to train new officers in avoiding racial profiling and to promote diversity with a fellow officer (who is black) isn't helping his case.

Gates wasn't beaten, wasn't abused, killed and he was arrested because he was abusive, uncooperative and now, he's using his connections to have the charges dropped. I'd like to see his police record- I doubt it's spotless and that's not because he's black, it's because of how he acted.

"If someone's being disrespectful towards me in his/her home, I simply leave."

Even if you're a cop investigating a possible crime? I don't think so.

This is par for the course with Obama's appointees and friends, lately. The Fed Chairman and a few others didn't pay their taxes, others have been in other troubles. I find it really ironic that his friends and appointees didn't pay their taxes when the result of the bailout and Porkulus will be that high income people will be paying far more in taxes.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Yes highfigh but nothing you said changes the fact that no situation existed and you can't arrest people for being uncooperative, belligerent in their own home. This is big brother stuff at its worst. Once it was established that Gates was in his own home, the officer was unwelcome at that point and should have left. Instead the officer decided to strut his stuff and show this big mouth who's boss except he bit off more than he can chew. He has basically ruined his life to satisfy his ego for a few moments.
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
Yes highfigh but nothing you said changes the fact that no situation existed and you can't arrest people for being uncooperative, belligerent in their own home. This is big brother stuff at its worst. Once it was established that Gates was in his own home, the officer was unwelcome at that point and should have left. It was obvious he wanted to strut his stuff and show this big mouth who's boss except he bit off more than he can chew. He has basically ruined his life to satisfy his ego for a few moments.

Interfering with a police investigation can get you arrested.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
On the flip side, if he didn't address this issue, you'd have a lot of people wondering why he didn't.
Kinda like when he didnt speak about the violence in Iran after the "elections"
:D
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Interfering with a police investigation can get you arrested.
The investigation was over. It was already established Gates was the owner of the house. He was arrested after the fact.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
It was already established no crime was committed so what was the cop still doing there?
There was mention that it is procedure to ensure that one is not under duress, in asking him/her to step outside.

 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Yes highfigh but nothing you said changes the fact that no situation existed and you can't arrest people for being uncooperative, belligerent in their own home. This is big brother stuff at its worst. Once it was established that Gates was in his own home, the officer was an unwelcome guest at that point and should have left. It was obvious he wanted to strut his stuff and show this big mouth who's boss except he bit off more than he can chew.
Define "no situation existed". The police were called because someone was breaking into a house. The call didn't specify who was breaking in, and the officers shouldn't be expected to know every Harvard Professor's face and name. He was abusive and uncooperative to the investigation and didn't hand out his ID immediately. How the hell are the police supposed to get the details of a possible crime if the people involved won't cooperate?

You weren't there, I wasn't there and NOBODY HERE WAS THERE. Calling it "big brother stuff at its worst"? Nobody disappeared, they didn't delete all evidence of his existence going back to his birth. It was a reported break in and the police responded. When an active investigation is being hindered, it's called 'Obstruction of Justice" and yes, you can be arrested for it. If he showed his ID to prove it's his house, that's one thing but if he only said "I'm xxx Gates" without proof, that's not an acceptable way to make his identity known. Your distrust of the police is obvious but they're not all crooked. As I posted before, I'd like to see Gates' police record- it would be an interesting read.

Take a breath. Not everything is as sinister as you think. That said, there's a lot of bad government stuff going on.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
It was already established no crime was committed so what was the cop still doing there?
Again, we weren't there and I haven't seen anything that indicated how long this whole thing took, from start to finish.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Define "no situation existed". The police were called because someone was breaking into a house. The call didn't specify who was breaking in, and the officers shouldn't be expected to know every Harvard Professor's face and name. He was abusive and uncooperative to the investigation and didn't hand out his ID immediately. How the hell are the police supposed to get the details of a possible crime if the people involved won't cooperate?

You weren't there, I wasn't there and NOBODY HERE WAS THERE. Calling it "big brother stuff at its worst"? Nobody disappeared, they didn't delete all evidence of his existence going back to his birth. It was a reported break in and the police responded. When an active investigation is being hindered, it's called 'Obstruction of Justice" and yes, you can be arrested for it. If he showed his ID to prove it's his house, that's one thing but if he only said "I'm xxx Gates" without proof, that's not an acceptable way to make his identity known. Your distrust of the police is obvious but they're not all crooked. As I posted before, I'd like to see Gates' police record- it would be an interesting read.

Take a breath. Not everything is as sinister as you think. That said, there's a lot of bad government stuff going on.
He had shown his ID and the officer called the Harvard police to confirm. This fact is not in dispute by either side. The arrest happened afterwards.

I don't believe the majority of police in general are crooked. I do believe there are a fair share of scumbags though. This officer obviously lost his cool and did something stupid. Understandable as we're all human, but he's a hired professional expected to keep his cool.
 
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rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
And so did/is the professor;)
Yes, but the professor wasn't in someone else's home who didn't want him there. Nor is he a public servant. If he wants to be rude and disrespectful in his home, that's his business.
 
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markw

Audioholic Overlord
Here's a copy of the police report.

Mr Gates could have certainly avoided all of this had he simply treated the officer as a fellow professional and answered his questions instead of trying to "pull rank" and browbeating the cop for simply doing his job, one that puts his life in danger almost dailly.

Also remember, someone called in a report of a possible B & E. And, it's also mentioned in the report that Gates himself said his house was broken into recently.

Also, please note that he didn't get arrested until he followed the officer outside and continued his very loud, very public, and very racist tirade.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

My $$ is on his seeing an opportunity for a good story and milked it for all it's worth. IMNSHO, he sunk to the level of Al Sharpton in that he whored his race for personal gain and publicity.

I hear he's already planning a PBS movie based on this experience.

Yes, Mr. Obama certainly has some interesting friends.
 
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rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Mr Gates could have certainly avoided all of this had he simply treated the officer as a felow professiona and answered his questions instead of trying to "pull rank" and browbeating the cop for simpy doing his job.
No argument with that.

I have no problem with someone milking an opportunity or relying on connections to get out of a jam.
 

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