GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Warlord
My basement rec room measures 27'x11'x7', for a total of 2079 cubic feet. My current HT setup is 5.1 with direct radiating surrounds. I have about 12' of space between my couch and the back wall, so back surrounds are "do-able" for me. I'm just wondering what would work best in my space. (I really should post some photos)

Here are my options:

1) Stay 5.1 and replace the surrounds I have now with wall mounted bi- or dipoles. That would also clear up some floor space - which would make the wife happy.:) I'm guessing that they would widen the sound field and add a greater sense of realism.

2) Go 7.1, by adding the bi/dipoles and moving the current surrounds to the back. However, I'm not sure where I would mount the back surrounds. There are two doors on that back wall.:confused: Suspending them from the ceiling is a no-go. With a 7' ceiling height, they would end up covered in blood and my head covered with scars. They'd be an eyesore as well.

3) Go 6.1, by adding the bi/dipoles, selling the current surrounds and adding a centre channel speaker as a single back surround. I could mount it on a shelf between the two doors on the back wall. I'm thinking that with a relatively long and narrow room, 6.1 might be more suitable than 7.1.

In the process of typing out these options, I think I've talked myself out of going 7.1. I would still like some second opinions though. If I DO go 6.1 or
7.1, is it really advantagous to get di/bipoles for the surrounds. Or would the extra one or two back speakers adequately compensate for any deficiencies in the direct radiators in the surround application? Bang for buck is an important factor here as well. It's not that I lack the funds - it's just convincing the boss that I need to spend anything on the system is not going to be easy. Especially since I had told her that the audio part of the HT was finished. Silly me....
 
M

MatthewB.

Audioholic General
If upgrading to Bluray, may be worth going with 7.1
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
You've got enough room behind your seat that surround back speakers would enhance your sound field.

I would recommend following the THX placement:

Diffuse surround speakers placed directly to either side of your seat (so that you are seated in the null) and about 2 feet above your seated ear height.

Monopole surround back speakers placed very close together at the very back of the room and, again about 2 feet above seated ear height.

If you have a shelf in between the two doors at the back with enough room to accomodate a center speaker, then you have enough room to accomodate two bookshelf monopole speakers placed about 8 inches apart :)
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
GO-NAD!, I use a 7.1, and recently swapped out monopole side surrounds for bipoles. The effect is noticeable, there, but it's more subtle than I thought it would be. Also note that most bipoles are considerably more expensive than the monopole bookshelves from the same line. After all, double the drivers.

So, if you don't have money to burn, I vote for 7.1 monopoles. The only question for you is the aesthetic one. We can't answer that.

Some people love bipoles, some people love dipoles, but monopoles are absolutely adequate IMO. All of the surround cues are already laid out for you, embedded in the soundtracks themselves. The reason I went with bipoles was for a few reasons, including an AH article recommendation so that coverage can be increased for two rows, wall mounting for aesthetic purposes, which in turn also meant higher mounting (for they were too low before, at least from the rear row's perspective).

There are many ways to skin a cat. For instance, while very, very expensive, PSB makes some "bipoles" that can be set to bipole, dipole, or even dual-monopoles (two sets of binding posts). Therefore, you can technically have 7.1 with only "5.1" speakers, or even do something like having a "6.1" speaker layout, but the rear "bipole" acting instead as dual-monopoles for the rear.

But, I'm gonna vote monopoles all around, since money is a concern for you.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
GO-NAD!, I use a 7.1, and recently swapped out monopole side surrounds for bipoles. The effect is noticeable, there, but it's more subtle than I thought it would be. Also note that most bipoles are considerably more expensive than the monopole bookshelves from the same line. After all, double the drivers.

So, if you don't have money to burn, I vote for 7.1 monopoles. The only question for you is the aesthetic one. We can't answer that.

Some people love bipoles, some people love dipoles, but monopoles are absolutely adequate IMO. All of the surround cues are already laid out for you, embedded in the soundtracks themselves. The reason I went with bipoles was for a few reasons, including an AH article recommendation so that coverage can be increased for two rows, wall mounting for aesthetic purposes, which in turn also meant higher mounting (for they were too low before, at least from the rear row's perspective).

There are many ways to skin a cat. For instance, while very, very expensive, PSB makes some "bipoles" that can be set to bipole, dipole, or even dual-monopoles (two sets of binding posts). Therefore, you can technically have 7.1 with only "5.1" speakers, or even do something like having a "6.1" speaker layout, but the rear "bipole" acting instead as dual-monopoles for the rear.

But, I'm gonna vote monopoles all around, since money is a concern for you.
Jost, you are handling your Ninja duties with ease! Very good bit of info here. Way to go my friend. ;):);)



Cheers,

Phil
 
C

ChunkyDark

Full Audioholic
We have a modestly sized room 15x15x10. Going to 7.1 over 5.1 definitely increased the immersion. Even the wife commented how much she liked it :D
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Direct radiating speakers all around in a 7.2-channel system setup.
(2 side surrounds, 2 rear surrounds, and two subwoofers.)

* That's the 2009 way. :)

Bob
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Warlord
You've got enough room behind your seat that surround back speakers would enhance your sound field.

I would recommend following the THX placement:

Diffuse surround speakers placed directly to either side of your seat (so that you are seated in the null) and about 2 feet above your seated ear height.

Monopole surround back speakers placed very close together at the very back of the room and, again about 2 feet above seated ear height.

If you have a shelf in between the two doors at the back with enough room to accomodate a center speaker, then you have enough room to accomodate two bookshelf monopole speakers placed about 8 inches apart :)
That's an intriguing idea. I didn't realize that the back surrounds could/should be that close together. If I were to go with the 7.1 option, I'd buy a pair of di- or bi-poles for the side surrounds and move the current surrounds to the back surround position. These speakers are rear-ported, so is distance from the back wall going to be an issue? Or, by crossing them over at 80Hz, will that reduce or eliminate any concerns about exaggerating the bass output.

I am concerned about the height though. By "2 feet above seated ear height", are you using the tweeter as the reference point? I would think that the further away from the listening postion you place any particular speaker, the less important the height becomes. Would that be accurate? The height placement will definitely be an issue. Since that section of wall is between 2 doors, it is a traffic area. I have visions of heads bashing on the speakers or the shelf. So, if I put a shelf there, I would prefer to put it at 6 feet. I'm the tallest in the house, at 5'8", so that should be safe. However, the tweeters would then be quite high - 40 or 41 inches above seated ear height and only a few inches from the ceiling.

Finally, that section of wall is 30" wide and off-centre by about 18", i.e. 58" from one side wall to the far edge of one door opening and 40" from the other side wall to the far edge of the other door opening (Hope you can picture what I'm trying to say). At 12 feet from the back of the couch, would being off-centre by that amount be an issue? I wouldn't think so, but opinions are welcome.

I appreciate anybody's input.:)

So, is it worthwhile to go the 7.1 route - or stick with 5.1?:confused:
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
That's an intriguing idea. I didn't realize that the back surrounds could/should be that close together. If I were to go with the 7.1 option, I'd buy a pair of di- or bi-poles for the side surrounds and move the current surrounds to the back surround position. These speakers are rear-ported, so is distance from the back wall going to be an issue?

With rear ported speakers, it is always a good idea to leave "breathing room" behind them. You are correct, however, that this matters less when using bass management to remove the bass to them, but it would still be best to allow some room behind them.


Or, by crossing them over at 80Hz, will that reduce or eliminate any concerns about exaggerating the bass output.

I am concerned about the height though. By "2 feet above seated ear height", are you using the tweeter as the reference point?

Obviously, I cannot say what he meant, but the tweeter is the standard reference point on a speaker for determining height.


I would think that the further away from the listening postion you place any particular speaker, the less important the height becomes. Would that be accurate?

Yes. You still don't want anything physically between you blocking the sound, so above is generally a good idea anyway.


The height placement will definitely be an issue. Since that section of wall is between 2 doors, it is a traffic area. I have visions of heads bashing on the speakers or the shelf. So, if I put a shelf there, I would prefer to put it at 6 feet. I'm the tallest in the house, at 5'8", so that should be safe. However, the tweeters would then be quite high - 40 or 41 inches above seated ear height and only a few inches from the ceiling.

The further away it is, the less it will matter. What sort of distance are we talking about?


Finally, that section of wall is 30" wide and off-centre by about 18", i.e. 58" from one side wall to the far edge of one door opening and 40" from the other side wall to the far edge of the other door opening (Hope you can picture what I'm trying to say). At 12 feet from the back of the couch, would being off-centre by that amount be an issue? I wouldn't think so, but opinions are welcome.

I would try to get it as close to centered as possible, though the rear matters far less than the front (see below). I would not place the speakers next to the doorways, but spaced with reference to the seating position, insofar as that is possible. In other words, I would probably place one of the speakers next to the doorway, and the other one 18" away from the other doorway (due to the 18" off center of the space; I hope you can tell what I mean by this).


I appreciate anybody's input.:)

So, is it worthwhile to go the 7.1 route - or stick with 5.1?:confused:

Only you can decide if it is "worth it" or not. In most cases, 6.1 or 7.1 is not a dramatic improvement over 5.1. There are many reasons for this, which depends upon speaker placement, the fact that humans hear better in front of them than behind them, many movies are only recorded in 5.1, and even those that do have 7.1, the sound in the front is the most important part of the soundtrack anyway. When I went from 5.1 to 6.1, I was underwhelmed by the difference. I now have a 7.1 receiver, and I already have the speaker to add for 7.1 sound, but I have not bothered to add the speaker, so I am still running 6.1. If my speaker placement options were better than they are, I would go 7.1 (because I already own all I need to do this), but it really is fairly trivial.

Obviously, when placing speakers and such, you must deal with what is possible in your space. Something less than absolutely perfect can still sound quite good, so I would not let slight imperfections in placement bother me too much, particularly when dealing with surrounds.
 
B

BruceOmega

Audiophyte
If upgrading to Bluray, may be worth going with 7.1
FWIW,

I've been listening in 7.1 since 1998, thanks at first to Logic 7 and later to DPLIIx. In my room, about 13' x 17' x 9.5', I found 7.1 provided much better surround envelopment than 5.1. My room layout allows for the rear speakers to be placed behind the listening area.

I plan to upgrade to a new HDMI 1.3 PrePro and BD player at some point, so I will be anxious to try discrete 7.1 sources as well.

Bruce
 
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