Mexican government skates, while USA pays.

[Nemo128]

One flat out denied having discussed where we needed him to trench for our cables (not manually, either) and I got his name, phone number, put it in the calendar of my Treo, along with photos of the area and him. He still denied that we had met about this after they trenched through the three LP gas lines that were buried under the driveway. For the third time. I have a friend with a small landscaping business and he works at least as hard as the Mexicans he hired and they're not particularly reliable.

Wouldn't that make you and your friend part of the problem? You're hiring them, no doubt to decrease your operating costs and increase profit. Patriotism talks a good game, but your actions speak volumes more in favor of your own wallet.

Trust me, not all illegals pay taxes. Are you telling me that those that congregate outside of big-box hardware stores and in designated areas in some town that jump into slow-moving pickup trucks owned by local contractors pay taxes?

Again, who's hiring them? Who's picking them up from outside of Home Depot? Americans far more concerned with their bottom line than national loyalty, part of the problem.

BTW- the Mexicans who work for my friend are nice guys. They just don't always show up when they're needed.

See above.

People eat too much because food is just too easy to get. Look at people in countries where they don't have access to so much- lean, often living longer, far less of the same causes of death we have.

Deflecting the fault on "the system", another true American value. "I'm fat because there's a McDonalds on every corner!"

I think Midnight was saying that "Mexicans" that pay taxes are legals and that it would be impossible for an illegal to pay taxes and quantify it.

Many small business contractor and construction companies "aquire" SS#s for their illegal employees and pay taxes out of their wages so they don't get nabbed by the IRS. It's pretty common practice in NY. In the end, the IRS doesn't give a rat's because the taxes are still being collected.

Matt,
These have been the similar experiences that I've had on the job site.

I'll say it for the last time, who is hiring them!?!?!?

If anything, they embody the true American spirit. They capitalize on the weakness of others! They drive you out of business by working cheaper! You say you'll work for $25/hour + 4 paid smoke breaks + paid lunches + overtime, they say they'll work for $8/hour 12 hours a day.

I worked in the sign industry for many years, watching the local unions bleed my company dry while I made a piss-poor wage that wasn't even 30% of what these union guys took home. They were contractually entitled to their smoke breaks and their 2.5x out-of-state job wage, all the while taking breaks every half hour and saying "I'm union, I'm not killing myself for this job." But hey, the owner of the company supported the American laborer, and lost a buttload of money in the process. The worker would rather bleed the small business owner dry and move on to the next one in the phone book than keep our fellow countrymen going. That's what a parasite does.

I wonder how many people raving about closing the borders and all that crap shop at Walmart. So many people are hypocrites, and they don't even realize it. They're gung-ho patriots until it hits their wallets. But isn't that the truest essence of it? Money over everything? Me before you?

Now, about the OP, it's wrong that our hospitals are forced to give care to illegals, period. Simple solution is, a trip to the hospital = a ride from the INS sans care. Simple. An illegal shows up at a hospital, they are stabilized ONLY if it's life-threatening, detained till the INS shows up, and taken into custody. But guess what? YOUR TAXES WOULD PAY FOR IT! So your choice would be between sucking it up and being willing to pay those taxes for the additional personnel and resources, or shutting up and letting the illegals work our system.

For anyone wanting a good read, I suggest the first part of SWMBO's graduate thesis:

http://library1.njit.edu/etd/2000s/2008/njit-etd2008-011/njit-etd2008-011.html

 

[Rickster71]

Now, about the OP, it's wrong that our hospitals are forced to give care to illegals, period. Simple solution is, a trip to the hospital = a ride from the INS sans care. Simple. An illegal shows up at a hospital, they are stabilized ONLY if it's life-threatening, detained till the INS shows up, and taken into custody. But guess what? YOUR TAXES WOULD PAY FOR IT! So your choice would be between sucking it up and being willing to pay those taxes for the additional personnel and resources, or shutting up and letting the illegals work our system.

First off, you responded to posts that were all off topic. (certainly not your fault, and not theirs) *the part I quoted above I very much agree with*
They were drawn off topic, by others that can't or won't address the subject of the OP.
As you well know, that's a 'tried & true' debating tactic.


I agree,
Deporting illegal aliens at tax payer expense, would become a bottomless pit to throw money into.
It would become a job for life like the "War On Drugs" with too many union jobs to loose, if the war was ever won.

I'd like to see them treat illegals as they do the middle and upper class tax payer.
Charge them fees, until the run away in submission.
For example, constantly check them for legal status, find/make loop-holes in the law to allow them to be pulled over, as they do us silly tax payers.
(seat belt & cell phone laws, etc.) Fine them (cash) on the spot.
Make the USA a real sh!tty place to live in, if you don't play by the rules. (Same thing for the people that hire them)
The people that hire them will go back to hiring high school kids.

They got here on their own, they can smuggle themselves back over the border on their own too.
And protest at home, forcing their own corrupt Mexican government to provide for them.

Just in case it comes up, a quick aside:

The "They work very hard doing jobs we don't want" argument doesn't wash.
Anyone that got Thirteen times their normal pay would work hard.
The exchange rate is 13 to 1 when the send money home.

 

[lsiberian]

A topic truly hijacked.

The original fact that the Mexican government is the problem stands.

The fact is Mexico has been around nearly as long as the US, but due to poor leadership has been in the poor house while we've been doing decent up here.

We can't fix the immigration problem without fixing the conditions causing it. Mexico needs industry, needs real jobs, needs real opportunities. Problem is the drug cartels are the latest corrupt thing in the way. The solution to that problem is for us to legalize drugs. Mobsters were very powerful in prohibition, but if we legitimized the business and taxed it. We could help fix the national debt and help mexico get a real economy.

I hate drugs and will never use them, but the War on Drugs has proven a waste and nearly destroyed the border.

As bad as our system is. It's way better than Mexico.

 

[highfigh]

Wouldn't that make you and your friend part of the problem? You're hiring them, no doubt to decrease your operating costs and increase profit. Patriotism talks a good game, but your actions speak volumes more in favor of your own wallet.

I never said the Mexicans hired by my friend are illegal and he hires them because they're good at what they do. He has hired whites and he has a black guy working for him as well. Unfortunately, he's as reliable as the Mexicans are. He treats them well and they appreciate it. If they need anything, he gets it and they work out a plan to pay it off, even when it overextends him. I have no employees but another friend who does the same kind of work helps when I need it and I do the same for him. The guy who denied talking to me worked for the landscaper and he trenched through the LP gas lines three times in less than a year. They didn't freakin' move, either.

I wouldn't hire an illegal, period. If I did, I would be a huge hypocrite and there would be no point in me arguing for making them go through the legal route to coming here. The older I get, the less tolerant I am of people bending rules and breaking laws.

 

[highfigh]

A topic truly hijacked.

The original fact that the Mexican government is the problem stands.

The fact is Mexico has been around nearly as long as the US, but due to poor leadership has been in the poor house while we've been doing decent up here.

We can't fix the immigration problem without fixing the conditions causing it. Mexico needs industry, needs real jobs, needs real opportunities. Problem is the drug cartels are the latest corrupt thing in the way. The solution to that problem is for us to legalize drugs. Mobsters were very powerful in prohibition, but if we legitimized the business and taxed it. We could help fix the national debt and help mexico get a real economy.

I hate drugs and will never use them, but the War on Drugs has proven a waste and nearly destroyed the border.

As bad as our system is. It's way better than Mexico.

Mexico has industry and has for decades. The real problem is that when people in power can get rich from being paid off by the cartels, they stop caring about everyone else. The latest thing? Since when is it a new thing for Mexico to ship drugs to the US? The Mexican Mafia and MS-13 are a huge problem and according to all of the various stats I have read, the California prison system is 35% filled by illegal Mexicans.

How can you make highly addictive drugs 'legitimate'? Alcohol was legal before Prohibition. Meth, Crack, PCP and some of the others never were. Does Cocaine, Heroin or any of the ones that cause people to lose control of their lives become less of a problem for them if they're legalized? Will they need less? Will the drugs they buy be of better quality if the US taxes them? Will people stop stealing, robbing, having turf wars and killing if the supply is somehow "condoned" by taxing it?

Don't bet on it. How many people are killed every year by drunk drivers? That's a legal drug- did legalizing it cause people to act more responsibly when they drank? No. All it did was make it hard for organized crime to control its distribution and even that can still be done when distributors are pressured for protection and territory rights, like what the Mafia has done. You don't think cigarettes and alcohol have been controlled by
organized crime operations, even recently? Guess again.

What Mexico needs is real leadership. They need people with the balls to remove the corrupt officials, isolate them so they can't be effective, build some infrastructure, become organized (in a good way) and develop some morals. Keeping the masses in a position of being peasants while the largest cities have all of the good stuff is not the way to keep the kinds of things we have from happening. If the US government did the same thing and those who had the least could, they would leave.

We have more than we need here, but many people would rather take handouts than work for what they need. Given the opportunity, many people will take the easy way out every time. That problem was caused by people who have mistaken want for need and people who want tp be seen as great leaders when all they are doing is giving the place away. Part of human nature makes us want what we don't or can't have and people in power have officially recognized this for thousands of years. Once it becomes easy to get/have more than we need, the pattern is set and very hard to break. When others see what we have, they want some, too and they'll do whatever it takes to get it.

 

[highfigh]

Deflecting the fault on "the system", another true American value. "I'm fat because there's a McDonalds on every corner!"

How did I do that? It's a problem with people. The competition for the Almighty Dollar makes large corporations put their restaurants (loose term) on just about every available corner until zoning changes make it harder because there are just too many and they're not as easy to convert when the chain fails and leaves empty buildings. Some people have the discipline to not eat like a dog when the supply is endless, some don't but I never blamed the system. How you got that from what I posted, I don't know and if you remember any of my other posts about violence, guns and things like that, I always say that peoples' behavior is what causes problems.

 

[Nemo128]

Some people have the discipline to not eat like a dog when the supply is endless, some don't but I never blamed the system. How you got that from what I posted

I dunno, but maybe...

People eat too much because food is just too easy to get. Look at people in countries where they don't have access to so much- lean, often living longer, far less of the same causes of death we have.

I guess my interpretation of what you clearly spelled out is way off.

People drink and drive because liquor is plentiful and, man, those car keys are just within their reach! People shoot other people because guns are so readily available and, woo hoo, those bullets are everywhere!

Sorry for the thread jack OP, and for keeping it going.

 

[highfigh]

I dunno, but maybe...



I guess my interpretation of what you clearly spelled out is way off.

People drink and drive because liquor is plentiful and, man, those car keys are just within their reach! People shoot other people because guns are so readily available and, woo hoo, those bullets are everywhere!

Sorry for the thread jack OP, and for keeping it going.

As I posted- most problems are due to Human Nature. Many of the others are due to bad parenting, bad influences and bad information.

People shoot others and do other self-destructive things because they A) can't control themselves, B) have the opportunity and C), a motive. There are many cases of just losing it when something really pisses them off (e.g., "going Postal"). Some don't give a rat's patoot about anyone, including themselves and while they may not intend to pop a cap in anyone's azz, it has crossed their mind, or they wouldn't load the gun. People under the influence of something think they're OK to do things, whether they're totally gooned or borderline.