Mexican government skates, while USA pays.

[tcarcio]

Don't pick on the liberals, they can't help it. They just want to give illegals YOUR STUFF.......

 

[lsiberian]

Which he would be happy to pay to an American citizen if so many of his other expenses werent so high because the illegals being here.

I dont get worked up about much but this issue gets me fired up quickfast. If they show up to a hospital or a school or soup kitchen and they dont belong in our country, kick them the hell out and make sure they never return.

Our unemployment would go WAY down, meaning more people working and less entitlement efforts that require elevated tax dollars. If PD paid less in tax and healthcare then he could easily afford to pay more for his pool and keep the money on our soil.

The amount of money these illegal workers send back to Mexico is RIDICULOUS and embarrassing all tax free, oh and their employers didnt pay taxes either further increasing the burden on all of us.

I dont want to offend anybody, I dont.. but If you dont belong here and you know you dont belong here and you're not living by the same rules I am, get out...

This great nation is the next to crumble from this kind of invasion...

Again people have shown they do pay taxes. Illegals file with the IRS actually. And paid nearly 16 billion in income tax from what I say. And that doesn't include car fees, sales tax and other stuff.

Plus 24 billion is insignificant compared to the costs of our nation as a whole.

 

[adwilk]

Shouldnt the term "Illegals" alone want you to send them on their way? There are more of them not paying taxes than do and more employers doing the same thing. If you're an American citizen, they are robbing you blind... How can you not care?

 

[highfigh]

No border is secure in reality. People got in and out of russia all the time in the old days. But I guess that's the america being advocated by folks that post this. Why not give them services?

1. They where here before us.

2. They pay their taxes.

3. They do labor that Americans wont' do. Just look at the pool thread and tell me how much more PDawg would be paying for you to do that job.

As long as there is a demand for something. A supply will be provided.

Yet again another unintelligent half truth produced by the republicans. And you wonder why you lose elections?

1. No, Mexicans weren't here before us. The Indigenous people were, until the Spanish came and decimated the population with disease, murder and domination. They interbred and once they were the dominant people, the Spanish language was adopted in some areas. England was dominated by the Romans, Gauls, Anglos and Scandinavians at different times and the resulting battles won that country back but the language and culture still have many reminders of all who were in power. Treaties were signed and since they haven't lost any wars with invading countries since those times, they have remained known as England. The US borders were settled by treaty, in the same way most other borders were. Every country that has defined borders defends them and it doesn't matter how small they are. Why we should just let everyone in and be the World's Doormat, I don't understand but if someone wants to come here, they should be prepared to do it legally. A US citizen can't just move to Mexico and their restrictions are stronger than ours.

I'm in Wisconsin- you mean to tell me that Mexicans were here first?

2. They pay their taxes? Really? How does this happen if they can't get a real SS card/number? If they make less than the minimum, THEY PAY NO TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. The argument about them doing jobs Americans won't is far from being an absolute. I know a lot of people in the trades who do the same work, for the prevailing wages, on hte same jobs. I have seen some pretty fargin' bad work done these people "who do hard work for less", too. Painters, drywallers, landscapers- you name it. One flat out denied having discussed where we needed him to trench for our cables (not manually, either) and I got his name, phone number, put it in the calendar of my Treo, along with photos of the area and him. He still denied that we had met about this after they trenched through the three LP gas lines that were buried under the driveway. For the third time. I have a friend with a small landscaping business and he works at least as hard as the Mexicans he hired and they're not particularly reliable. They tend to show up when they feel like it (usually better as payday approaches),they show up late, still drunk or incredibly hung over, go to the wrong place and again, you name it. When they don't show up, it hardly qualifies as better than any alternative.

Your comment about a supply and demand is absolutely true but you could have saved the last ones. If you think liberals are honest, I pity you.

 

[lsiberian]

Shouldnt the term "Illegals" alone want you to send them on their way? There are more of them not paying taxes than do and more employers doing the same thing. If you're an American citizen, they are robbing you blind... How can you not care?

Most illegals I've met are doing nothing to harm this country and are hard working people that would give you the shirt on their back if you needed it. They are starving to death in their own country with few jobs and a terrible economy.

Would you not do anything in your power to feed your children? Would you not do anything you could to give them a better life?

For many they see America as a land of hope and opportunity for a better life for their children. I refuse to turn them away. If they ask me for help I'll give it to them. I see no nations, but a world full of people trying their best to make the best of their situations. I don't care for borders, but I understand government is a necessary part of life.

Who decides what a country is? The people with the power. That power was the gun. Now it's money.

What gives you anymore right to this world than anyone else? There is plenty of food to go around in the world, but it's not distributed. Unemployment is very high in many countries outside of the US due to the corruption of the rich. So there is no way for them to get a better job or work their way out of their situation without leaving.

I know we can't sustain everyone, but since many americans eat too much food. Maybe we could take 1/3rd of our food and ship it to Mexico. We could hire them to do something in return.

 

[MidnightSensi]

1
2. They pay their taxes? Really? How does this happen if they can't get a real SS card/number? If they make less than the minimum, THEY PAY NO TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Right.

Those "foreign taxes" are foreign workers here on work visas. They aren't people who jumped the border, they bought a plane ticket and got their passport stamped.

Illegal workers don't file for taxes, and even if they did, we have no way of knowing if they pay enough, or how many pay, and so forth.

 

[highfigh]

Again people have shown they do pay taxes. Illegals file with the IRS actually. And paid nearly 16 billion in income tax from what I say. And that doesn't include car fees, sales tax and other stuff.

Plus 24 billion is insignificant compared to the costs of our nation as a whole.

How do illegals file with the IRS? If they're here legally, they're supposed to have a Guest Worker visa but there's no legal way for them to file. As far as car fees, illegals can't drive or register a car under their own name. Also, they often never pay the fees, never get insurance, never register the cars. Along border states, car theft is at an all-time high and the illegal parts market is booming. They bring cars up to the US with stolen plates and false registration, to be stripped down and the parts sold.

If the $24B is what you think they send down, that's very low and you need to think of it in the long term. It's more like $40B annually, and if the 20 year average is $24B, that $480 Billion would be a huge down payment on what it has cost the US taxpayers to have them here. Saying that "they paid $16 Billion, so it's OK" is really pathetic, especially if they sent $24 Billion out in one year. No matter how you look at it, it's a loss.

 

[highfigh]

Most illegals I've met are doing nothing to harm this country and are hard working people that would give you the shirt on their back if you needed it. They are starving to death in their own country with few jobs and a terrible economy.

Would you not do anything in your power to feed your children? Would you not do anything you could to give them a better life?

For many they see America as a land of hope and opportunity for a better life for their children. I refuse to turn them away. If they ask me for help I'll give it to them. I see no nations, but a world full of people trying their best to make the best of their situations. I don't care for borders, but I understand government is a necessary part of life.

Who decides what a country is? The people with the power. That power was the gun. Now it's money.

What gives you anymore right to this world than anyone else? There is plenty of food to go around in the world, but it's not distributed. Unemployment is very high in many countries outside of the US due to the corruption of the rich. So there is no way for them to get a better job or work their way out of their situation without leaving.

I know we can't sustain everyone, but since many americans eat too much food. Maybe we could take 1/3rd of our food and ship it to Mexico. We could hire them to do something in return.

You say that you don't care for borders- if you own a house, what would you do if your neighbor built something on your lot?

 

[markw]

Trust me, not all illegals pay taxes. Are you telling me that those that congregate outside of big-box hardware stores and in designated areas in some town that jump into slow-moving pickup trucks owned by local contractors pay taxes?

But, a more major issue is that they don't put back money into the local economy. Many live in crowded squalor and send as much money back to their country as possible: http://sweetness-light.com/archive/nyt-sobs-illegals-are-sending-less-money-home

Granted, not as much is going out now but that's only because the demand for their services is down, thanks to the economy.

 

[highfigh]

Right.

Those "foreign taxes" are foreign workers here on work visas. They aren't people who jumped the border, they bought a plane ticket and got their passport stamped.

Illegal workers don't file for taxes, and even if they did, we have no way of knowing if they pay enough, or how many pay, and so forth.

People with work visas aren't here illegally. How did you go so far off-track when the discussion has been about illegals? The ones with a visa are here illegally when it expires and they stay. I don't know of many people who have a problem when someone comes here legally. Maybe white supremists, but they're whack jobs, anyway.

BTW- the Mexicans who work for my friend are nice guys. They just don't always show up when they're needed.

 

[highfigh]

I know we can't sustain everyone, but since many americans eat too much food. Maybe we could take 1/3rd of our food and ship it to Mexico. We could hire them to do something in return.

IMO, the ones who sit around and do nothing but watch TV and eat should put some food in a backpack and walk it down there. That way, they can do something to help someone else and get some exercise.

People eat too much because food is just too easy to get. Look at people in countries where they don't have access to so much- lean, often living longer, far less of the same causes of death we have.

 

[MatthewB.]

Living in AZ, working healthcare past 20 years and being half Mexican I see first hand how illegals are decimating our local economy.

 

[lsiberian]

1. No, Mexicans weren't here before us. The Indigenous people were, until the Spanish came and decimated the population with disease, murder and domination. They interbred and once they were the dominant people, the Spanish language was adopted in some areas. England was dominated by the Romans, Gauls, Anglos and Scandinavians at different times and the resulting battles won that country back but the language and culture still have many reminders of all who were in power. Treaties were signed and since they haven't lost any wars with invading countries since those times, they have remained known as England. The US borders were settled by treaty, in the same way most other borders were. Every country that has defined borders defends them and it doesn't matter how small they are. Why we should just let everyone in and be the World's Doormat, I don't understand but if someone wants to come here, they should be prepared to do it legally. A US citizen can't just move to Mexico and their restrictions are stronger than ours.

I'm in Wisconsin- you mean to tell me that Mexicans were here first?

2. They pay their taxes? Really? How does this happen if they can't get a real SS card/number? If they make less than the minimum, THEY PAY NO TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. The argument about them doing jobs Americans won't is far from being an absolute. I know a lot of people in the trades who do the same work, for the prevailing wages, on hte same jobs. I have seen some pretty fargin' bad work done these people "who do hard work for less", too. Painters, drywallers, landscapers- you name it. One flat out denied having discussed where we needed him to trench for our cables (not manually, either) and I got his name, phone number, put it in the calendar of my Treo, along with photos of the area and him. He still denied that we had met about this after they trenched through the three LP gas lines that were buried under the driveway. For the third time. I have a friend with a small landscaping business and he works at least as hard as the Mexicans he hired and they're not particularly reliable. They tend to show up when they feel like it (usually better as payday approaches),they show up late, still drunk or incredibly hung over, go to the wrong place and again, you name it. When they don't show up, it hardly qualifies as better than any alternative.

Your comment about a supply and demand is absolutely true but you could have saved the last ones. If you think liberals are honest, I pity you.

1. My state was in Mexico before we kicked them out. as was the rest of the Southwest.

2. Ignorance is inexcusible on this topic you want to argue with me yet the fact is the IRS has tax reporting numbers for illegals. The purpose of them paying is to demonstrate they would be a good citizen if made legal.

3. This fact has changed some, but that's only because our economy is rough right now. There are plenty that work hard. Their culture is different so you have that to overcome but they still contribute.

As far as getting what you pay for that's true with white or anyone else.

 

[adwilk]

People with work visas aren't here illegally. How did you go so far off-track when the discussion has been about illegals? The ones with a visa are here illegally when it expires and they stay. I don't know of many people who have a problem when someone comes here legally. Maybe white supremists, but they're whack jobs, anyway.

BTW- the Mexicans who work for my friend are nice guys. They just don't always show up when they're needed.

I think Midnight was saying that "Mexicans" that pay taxes are legals and that it would be impossible for an illegal to pay taxes and quantify it.

 

[lsiberian]

I think Midnight was saying that "Mexicans" that pay taxes are legals and that it would be impossible for an illegal to pay taxes and quantify it.

But this is an untrue statement. It's not impossible. The IRS finds a way to get it's money believe me.

 

[MidnightSensi]

But this is an untrue statement. It's not impossible. The IRS finds a way to get it's money believe me.

So the government knows how many illegals are in the country and how much they make a year?

This goes back to the government either doesn't have any idea of how big the black market is, or doesn't want to acknowledge it. From drugs to art to wine to illegals to legals with cash, our economy is signficantly based on what the government can't account for.

 

[Rickster71]

The exchange rate is Thirteen to One!
$1 US Dollar gets exchanged for $13.30 Pesos when they send it home.
http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi

Take a look at your paycheck, and times it by "13" not bad, I'd cross the river & desert for that anytime.

The spirit of the first post wasn't 'One political party over another', it was:
Wonder why the Mexican government doesn't get any ridicule (at the very least) for not providing for it's own people? Why is it 'Blame America First'?

 

[MatthewB.]

Okay now that I am on my home computer and not my lousy laptop, I can write a post longer than a sentence.

I have worked in a hospital for 23 years and have seen firsthand the abuse of illegals on a hospital. In fact a suburb of Phoenix called "Mesa" used to have two major hopsitals and now both of them have closed due to illegals refusing to pay for services. Both these hopsitals were primarly used by "illegals" because they both had birthing centers and because the current "laws" say that every person must be seen for medical care wether the have the ability to pay or not, the illegals take advantage of this.

Now I have mentioned that I am half mexican and everytime my family has a GTG I get to hear both sides of the argument. Granted my mothers side (Mexican) says that all persons should be allowed free healthcare and my fathers side (Irish I know I know I have heard all the Irish Mexican jokes before). You can argue with the Mexicans till your blue in the face and they just don't get it. They think that America is the land of overabundance and that free healthcare is a benefit that they are going to take advantage of.

There are hopsitals on the American/Mexican border that have closed due to th illegals not paying, so now we the taxpayers have to pay for airflight for any illegal who has one foot on American soil and passes out, we fly them to a Tucson or Phoenix hospital, treat them and then release them with no intention of INS getting them. Sure INS is contacted, but they don't have the manpower to sit and babysit an illegal with a lengthy stay, so they ask that a hospital rep call them when they are ready for discharge. Sure they call but by then the "illegal" has casually walked out of the hospital with no intention of ever paying a red cent for the free healthcare they just got. In fact the hospital will give the illegal brochures on how to apply for free medicine and care after they leave the hopsital all at taxpayers expense.

In fact I have heard illegals discuss with one another ways to "abuse the current healthcare system". They proudly laugh about it and could care less because we taxpayers are greedy and have everything. It's these kind of comments that irk me to no end.

Do you know that recently in Phoenix that police were instructed not to bother with writing citations for minor offenses when dealing with illegals. man this one set me right the F off. Because what dictates a minor offense. Driving without insurance, stealing personal property under 100.00, using your social security number (that has been stolen from you) without your permission. Yep you guessed it all three above are considered minor infractions and not worthy of them even getting a citation. But heaven forbid your caught with a dime bag of weed, cause you Joe Citizen are screwed.

Oh and those convicted of a serious crime, yep you guessed it, they are bussed back to Mexico (at taxpayer expense) and dropped off on the Nogales side of the border and let go, only to be back two days later in the same town. We had a police officer last year who was murdered by a felony convict who had been deported two times in the past three years all for felony offenses.

So what have we learned kids, we have learned that Mesa, AZ no longer has a major hopsital and legal residents have to travel fifteen minutes further to get immediate help. We have learned that minor crimes can be forgiven without the need for courts (as long as your illegal) and we have learned that if you are a legal taxpaying citizen you have to jump through hoops to get food stamps, AHCCCS government healthcare or assistance, but if your an illegal they are there just for the asking with no paperwork whatsoever.

So although many consider it free and for all, it truly is not and heaven forbid your a natural born citizen who needs any of these government programs.

 

[Rickster71]

Matthew,

It's great to hear from someone in the real world, and not a recent college grad that just parrots what their left wing professors shamed and quilted them into believing... Or just some right wing crazy, waving an American flag.

(Most of us have had the same brainwashing in college, it's just that we didn't swallow it all, hook line and sinker.)
We've all been in our twenties and thirties. I know now, that the way I thought things were (my college beliefs), and how I thought things should be,
all had a violent collision ten to fifteen years later, with how things really are.

You can argue with the Mexicans till your blue in the face and they just don't get it. They think that America is the land of overabundance and that free healthcare is a benefit that they are going to take advantage of.


In fact I have heard illegals discuss with one another ways to "abuse the current healthcare system". They proudly laugh about it and could care less because we taxpayers are greedy and have everything. It's these kind of comments that irk me to no end.

Matt,
These have been the similar experiences that I've had on the job site.

 

[highfigh]

1. My state was in Mexico before we kicked them out. as was the rest of the Southwest.

2. Ignorance is inexcusible on this topic you want to argue with me yet the fact is the IRS has tax reporting numbers for illegals. The purpose of them paying is to demonstrate they would be a good citizen if made legal.

3. This fact has changed some, but that's only because our economy is rough right now. There are plenty that work hard. Their culture is different so you have that to overcome but they still contribute.

As far as getting what you pay for that's true with white or anyone else.

Who defined those borders? What do you think the Native American people would have said when Mexico claimed its territory?

2. You have proof of this? If they work low paying jobs, how much tax do they pay? If someone makes less than the minimum, they don't even need to file and if someone works for cash, there's no way they're paying taxes. Denial of the problem is easily as inexcusable.

Here's a link that you'll probably never believe, but if you google Azatlan, you'll see many more.
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/azatlan/index