$1000 Best bang for your buck setup

[WmAx]

Wow, thank you for that very technical response, I really do appreciate a scientific analysis especially regarding things like audio setups.

My only hangup with the Behringers is their lack of aesthetics. I hate to bootleg a solution to that, but maybe screening stapled to them Any ideas to make them prettier??

I am liking the Jamo's the more I look at them. $488 for 4 towers and a center channel, $220 for a HK254, and a single (for now) 12" Dayton Sub coming to $860 (free ship on I think everything). Do you all have any more thoughts on those or places I can read up on them?

Thanks again guys!

Well, if you are at all handy, you can make grill covers yourself. But Behringer does not provide any covers. If you do make covers, in order to preserve the unique wide off axis dispersion of these speakers, you should build the covers made from hobby tubing or wood cylinders, as to have minimum acoustic interference.

The Jamos are certainly better from a cosmetic stand point. But what's more important to you? Audio performance or appearance?

-Chris

 

[Protostar1]

Well, if you are at all handy, you can make grill covers yourself. But Behringer does not provide any covers. If you do make covers, in order to preserve the unique wide off axis dispersion of these speakers, you should build the covers made from hobby tubing or wood cylinders, as to have minimum acoustic interference.

The Jamos are certainly better from a cosmetic stand point. But what's more important to you? Audio performance or appearance?

-Chris

Well I am looking for a balance between cosmetics and performance... Clearly you have done the research and like the Behringers. I am considering them strongly. However, the Jamos look a lot better than the Behringers, will they sacrifice a lot of performance to the Berhingers? Or will I get 90% performance in a more attractive package? Thanks again!

 

[WmAx]

Well I am looking for a balance between cosmetics and performance... Clearly you have done the research and like the Behringers. I am considering them strongly. However, the Jamos look a lot better than the Behringers, will they sacrifice a lot of performance to the Berhingers? Or will I get 90% performance in a more attractive package? Thanks again!

For HT, the difference will be less noticeable. For music, the difference will be larger. The Jamos are going to have less clear mid-range due to the more resonant cabinet systems; and also the acoustic absorption materials become even more important in larger cabinets like floor standers; and the improper/suboptimal material used inside will cause further loss of mid-range detail. Without specific, comprehensive measurements of the Jamos, I can not comment on further differences. BTW, if you want to see some of the Behringer measurements, here: http://www.linaeum.com/productinfo/other/behringer_2030P/fr_waterfall_detail_offaxis_1M.gif

http://www.linaeum.com/productinfo/other/behringer_2030P/fr_fullrange_averaged_1M.gif

-Chris

 

[Protostar1]

For HT, the difference will be less noticeable. For music, the difference will be larger. The Jamos are going to have less clear mid-range due to the more resonant cabinet systems; and also the acoustic absorption materials become even more important in larger cabinets like floor standers; and the improper/suboptimal material used inside will cause further loss of mid-range detail. Without specific, comprehensive measurements of the Jamos, I can not comment on further differences. BTW, if you want to see some of the Behringer measurements, here: http://www.linaeum.com/productinfo/other/behringer_2030P/fr_waterfall_detail_offaxis_1M.gif

http://www.linaeum.com/productinfo/other/behringer_2030P/fr_fullrange_averaged_1M.gif

-Chris

You clearly deserve your Audioholic Samurai title! You are the informed type of individual that has significant sway in my purchasing decision. Based on my knowledge (or lack thereof) of audio systems, 60% movie 40% music usage, small/ medium room, and limited budget, is the difference between the Jamos and Behringers going to be that significant? I know that is a nearly impossible question to answer, but please give it your best shot based on your knowledge of the products. I appreciate aesthetics and easy packaging (ie no stands needed), but will ultimately bias my choice slightly towards sound quality. However, if the Jamos are going to give a beginner audiophyte like myself a good sound in a good package, Ill go that route. Reading my post it seems like I am sold on the Jamos, I am not, I am just looking for the best overall package. Thanks again!

 

[3db]

I'd suggest listening to both speakers and picking what sounds best to you. Speakers are the most subjective link in the audio chain and without an audition, it will be difficult for you to make an informed decision.

 

[Protostar1]

I would be inclined to agree, do you know who would distribute these speakers in Illinois?

 

[lsiberian]

I am best qualified to answer questions pertaining to the B2030P, as I was the one that analyzed this speaker and suggested it originally on this site.

I recommend the B2030P based purely on objective build quality and measured performance - compared to other speakers in the relative price range. Nothing less than about 4x the price, actually compares overall equally with the B2030P. The cabinet is built better (double thick front baffles, relative stiff side panels), the drivers are better (huge motor on the mid-bass, cast alloy frames, high measured performance), the crossover is superior (all film capacitors, very large gauge inductors for very low core saturation at high input signals), and the measured response is extraordinary for the price. A relatively flat response, good waterfall response (demonstrating low stored energy levels in the drivers/crossover) and an extreme wide off axis response (frequency response remains nearly identical even through the treble band, up to very far horizontal angles). You would have to (seriously) spend around $2000 for a 5 channel set of speakers that compare favorably with the B2030Ps, which will cost you under $500. Based on measured/objective factors. In addition, you can improve the B2030P by fixing some minor over looked issues common with mass produced speakers. For example, you can fix some air leaks around some gaskets, you can some superglue and remove the vibration present in the magnetic can shield on the woofer and you can replace the internal acoustic absorption material with a superior material for a more defined mid-range. These speakers are ideal for a small to medium size room. However, for a large size room, you need a speaker with more output(SPL). Ascend CBM-170SE speakers cost about 2x as much as the Behringers, but can reach SPLs about 6dB(2x) of what the Behringers can manage due to the more advanced motor designs used on the drivers. You will give up mid-range resolution with the Ascends(due to much more resonant cabinet) compared to the Behringers and the Ascends will sound more harsh (as they have a raised upper treble band) and the Ascends have a worse off axis response(then again, very few speakers match the off axis response of the B2030P). So, there is a trade off for that increased SPL. If you want to have both the SPL increase AND retain the fidelity level, you will have to spend much more.

-Chris

How well do you think they would fill a room for djing. I know your supposed to use horns, but cost wise they are pretty expensive. I'm wondering if a pair of these could fill the bill by chance.

 

[lsiberian]

You clearly deserve your Audioholic Samurai title! You are the informed type of individual that has significant sway in my purchasing decision. Based on my knowledge (or lack thereof) of audio systems, 60% movie 40% music usage, small/ medium room, and limited budget, is the difference between the Jamos and Behringers going to be that significant? I know that is a nearly impossible question to answer, but please give it your best shot based on your knowledge of the products. I appreciate aesthetics and easy packaging (ie no stands needed), but will ultimately bias my choice slightly towards sound quality. However, if the Jamos are going to give a beginner audiophyte like myself a good sound in a good package, Ill go that route. Reading my post it seems like I am sold on the Jamos, I am not, I am just looking for the best overall package. Thanks again!

Chris is a perfectionist audiophile. But most folks would be thrilled by the Jamos probably. Relatively speaking it will smoke most of the stuck available in stores.

You might be able to see the behringer's in person and then decide on their aesthetics. We all have different tastes.

 

[WmAx]

How well do you think they would fill a room for djing. I know your supposed to use horns, but cost wise they are pretty expensive. I'm wondering if a pair of these could fill the bill by chance.

If you use 4, and use a high pass filter (crossover) at 75-80 Hz, then yes, they can be used to DJ in a domestic environment or in a presentation room. I can not recommend them for actual venue use unless you use multiples of the speaker. It was meant to be used as a monitor such as at an audio edit station, not for P.A. use.You will need capable subwoofer(s) to fill in the LF band.

-Chris

 

[shadyJ]

Protostar, Guitar Center might be your best bet outside of online retailers. There are a bunch in ill. Call them up and ask them if they have the monitor you are looking for. The nice thing about them is that some of them are willing to price match online vendors (I bought a $300 amp for $240 there recently by doing this).

 

[Protostar1]

There are a number of retailers near by that carry the Jamos and one that carries Behringer, I will make an effort to get to them to hear the speakers. I will keep guitar center in mind.

If I went with the Behringers, I would need to purchase 6 speakers and it would be unlikely I would spend time trying to sell the extra. I would like to use it if possible. Assuming I am sitting on a couch, what are the approximate positions of a 6.1/ 6.2 setup? Would I have FR FL next to the TV midR and midL in between the couch and the TV and then RR and RL next to or slightly behind me?? Or can you move the middle speakers to be more like wide right and wide left?
OR, could I use two Behringers as a center speaker wired together?

I like the idea of the high quality sound from the Behringers but I really would like something with a grill. I am a handy person but I need an idea of how to cover them without screwing up the acoustics. My current idea is some hardware store black screen and a staple gun... seems kind of crude. Throw me some ideas!

Also, a set (4) of decent stands for the Behringers or should I just get whatever is cheap and at Walmart?

Thanks a ton guys!

 

[Mika75]

You will need only one speaker for the center.

Using the specs from the powered version TRUTH B2030A we can see that..

Despite its small size it can achieve a peak output level in excess of 113 dB SPL.@1m Powered by separate 75- and 35-Watt built-in amplifiers..

The fall off of a point is -6dB every time you double the distance in this type of speaker, so Max spl @ 2m = 107dB, @ 4m = 101dB
(THX specified 105dB at the chair, per speaker)


Some good pictures of what to expect without grills here >www.tcmagazine.com B2030A review/pics

 

[Protostar1]

You will need only one speaker for the center.

Using the specs from the powered version TRUTH B2030A we can see that..


The fall off of a point is -6dB every time you double the distance in this type of speaker, so Max spl @ 2m = 107dB, @ 4m = 101dB
(THX specified 105dB at the chair, per speaker)


Some good pictures of what to expect without grills here >www.tcmagazine.com B2030A review/pics

I am not hugely concerned with any kind of falloff as my room is relatively small. What I was getting at before is there anyway to setup 6.1 in a way to keep the mid speakers from being obtrusive or should they really be mid way between the listener and the tv? With regards to having two center channel speakers, I am basically trying to make use of the extra 2030p I would have.

The speakers really are not unattractive, but the Jamos are much better looking. At this point I am only looking at the Behringers and the Jamos, is there anything else I should consider?

I need to clarify, but I was offered $815 for the EMP 351T system direct from RBH. Should I consider this? With the HK 254 its slightly over my budget, but if the EMPs are a better setup, I might go for it. Thanks guys!

 

[tyreal78]

Probably can do better than the Orbs, and it's a little over budget, but just a thought...

Receiver: HK 254, Onkyo 606. $250 - $450

Speakers: Orb Audio - 2 quick packs and 1 extra $580

Sub: SVS, HSU, or Dayton $130 - $450

 

[Protostar1]

Thanks for the additional input, I really need to keep at or preferably slightly below the budget. The Behringer/ Jamo setups will be about $900 which I am happy with.

What is the difference between the HK 254 and 247? And what makes the Harmon Kardon better than a comparable Onkyo entry level receiver?

Also, will the EMP tower system outperform the Jamos or the Behringers assuming the same or similar price?

 

[Patrick_Wolf]

Thanks for the additional input, I really need to keep at or preferably slightly below the budget. The Behringer/ Jamo setups will be about $900 which I am happy with.

The B2030P is $150(or less)/pair. 3 pairs = $450. $130/pair here. I haven't heard them, but am seriously thinking about ordering a pair to audition. Cause if they're as good as WmAx says, then one could save a huge junk of change for their HT.

Also, will the EMP tower system outperform the Jamos or the Behringers assuming the same or similar price?

Unless you hear all three, it's impossible to know which you will like best. Since you probably can't audition them without paying for a hefty return charge, I would just look elsewhere.

Check out places like Ascend, Axiom, SVS, and TSC.

I think the best option is to order up pairs of bookshelves and do A/B comparisons. Paying to return them will eat into your budget, in which case you wait untill your budget can recover and purchase the rest of the system.

Energy also has Risk-Free Trials. But given what I'm going through trying to return these CB-10's I can't recommend Energy in any way, shape, or form. Don't order from their site, period. The CB-10's look nice, but have that tin- can quality of sound too them. Loud and messy, with plenty of "energy" in the wrong places. It's obvious which demographic they're pandering too; young idiots like me who get drawn in by the flash.

Energy is owned by Klipsch Group, which (an Energy rep told me) sets the pricing for their speakers. Jamo is also owned by Klipsch Group, and that worries me a bit.

 

[Protostar1]

The B2030P is $150(or less)/pair. 3 pairs = $450. $130/pair here. I haven't heard them, but am seriously thinking about ordering a pair to audition. Cause if they're as good as WmAx says, then one could save a huge junk of change for their HT.



Unless you hear all three, it's impossible to know which you will like best. Since you probably can't audition them without paying for a hefty return charge, I would just look elsewhere.

Check out places like Ascend, Axiom, SVS, and TSC.

I think the best option is to order up pairs of bookshelves and do A/B comparisons. Paying to return them will eat into your budget, in which case you wait untill your budget can recover and purchase the rest of the system.

Energy also has Risk-Free Trials. But given what I'm going through trying to return these CB-10's I can't recommend Energy in any way, shape, or form. Don't order from their site, period. The CB-10's look nice, but have that tin- can quality of sound too them. Loud and messy, with plenty of "energy" in the wrong places. It's obvious which demographic they're pandering too; young idiots like me who get drawn in by the flash.

Energy is owned by Klipsch Group, which (an Energy rep told me) sets the pricing for their speakers. Jamo is also owned by Klipsch Group, and that worries me a bit.

I have two sets of Klipsch speakers one for a computer (promedia 5.1 which will be recycled with my new computer) and a home theater setup which I like but I am not thoroughly impressed with. At the price point, given their total package, I still like the Jamos the most. I am going to try and get to two different retailers tomorrow and see if I can hear the Jamos or the Behringers and get a better idea of what I like.

I am narrowing the receiver down to these three, I would like to hear opinions:

Harmon Kardon 254 ~$240 shipped
Pioneer VSX-918V $240 shipped
Denon AVR-1610 $300+?

The HK and pioneer are both refurbished and the HK is a far better deal. The Pioneer is recommended by Home Theater magazine as a great entry receiver.

I am still unsure if the eVGA motherboard with both 8.1 audio and S/PDIF out will be able to dual transmit audio to two different sources (they would never be run at the same time however.) Anyone?

 

[Protostar1]

For some reason I cannot edit the above post...

I just wanted to add that if I were to do the Behringers, I would really prefer a center speaker + 2 pairs of the 2030p. The packaging of the center channel on a cabinet or something like that really requires a low and wide speaker, not a tall one like the 2030p. So for around the cost of a pair of Behringers (130-150) what kind of center channel should I get?

 

[Adam]

For some reason I cannot edit the above post...

I believe that you can only edit a post for a period of one hour after the original post.

 

[Protostar1]

You would be correct now that I look at it. Any thoughts on any of my above questions??