Onkyo vs Goliath & his big brother

[AcuDefTechGuy]

From Home Theater Magazine:

Arcam AVR600 $5,000 receiver:
FR: 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 0.01dB
THD: 0.034%
Crosstalk: -74dB
SNR: -95dB

Rotel RSX-1560 $2,600 receiver:
FR: 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 0.66dB
THD: 0.017%
Crosstalk: -78dB
SNR: -95dB

Onkyo TX-SR607 $600 receiver:
FR: 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 0.06dB
THD: 0.011%
Crosstalk: -96dB
SNR: -106dB

Okay, okay, okay.

So 3rd party measured specs don't mean everything, I get it. But they do count for something and that's why Audioholics, HTM, S&V, & Stereophile still measure specs.

So how in the heck can a $600 Onkyo receiver kick the crap out of a $5000 & $2600 receiver in the audio measurements???

 

[GlocksRock]

I'm sure there is more to it than just those specs, like build quality, warranty, brand name, etc...

 

[no. 5]

Okay, okay, okay.

So 3rd party measured specs don't mean everything, I get it.

Sez who?!

So how in the heck can a $600 Onkyo receiver kick the crap out of a $5000 & $2600 receiver in the audio measurements???

It's not what they're getting, it's what they think they're getting. In any event, a DBT will tell you for sure which is better.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm sure there is more to it than just those specs, like build quality, warranty, brand name, etc...

The warranty is 5 yrs vs 1 yr, which is not ALL THAT considering the price difference ($5000 vs $600).

Brand: Sure, Arcam & Rotel have better brand recognition.

More features & Power : definitely

Build Quality: you would think that a $5,000 receiver would have better build quality with better quality interior components, which would translate into better measurements.

I think a $25K Mark Levinson preamp sounds like a $600 Emotiva preamp, but Mark Levinson can brag about having better build quality which absolutely shows in their measurements. For example, the Mark Levinson crosstalk is -140db vs the -70dB of Emotiva.

 

[GlocksRock]

But even if the specs are better, and they sound the same, does it really matter? Why spend all that extra money just for bragging rights? Sure, a lot of that stuff looks good on paper, but unless every bit of your system is super high quality, and you listen in room with no outside noise, it doesn't really matter. I say spend your money on better speakers, and if need be, some room treatments, unless one of those devices offers some feature that the lower end stuff doesn't have, it's just not practical.

 

[3db]

The warranty is 5 yrs vs 1 yr, which is not ALL THAT considering the price difference ($5000 vs $600).

Brand: Sure, Arcam & Rotel have better brand recognition.

More features & Power : definitely

Build Quality: you would think that a $5,000 receiver would have better build quality with better quality interior components, which would translate into better measurements.

I think a $25K Mark Levinson preamp sounds like a $600 Emotiva preamp, but Mark Levinson can brag about having better build quality which absolutely shows in their measurements. For example, the Mark Levinson crosstalk is -140db vs the -70dB of Emotiva.

Dude, You'll never hear the difference!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But even if the specs are better, and they sound the same, does it really matter? Why spend all that extra money just for bragging rights? Sure, a lot of that stuff looks good on paper, but unless every bit of your system is super high quality, and you listen in room with no outside noise, it doesn't really matter. I say spend your money on better speakers, and if need be, some room treatments, unless one of those devices offers some feature that the lower end stuff doesn't have, it's just not practical.

Oh, I agree. I just think that if Arcam builds a $5K receiver, it better measure up to the likes of Denon, Yahama, & Pioneer flagship models.

And it should at least have better measurements than a $600 receiver.

Also, I wanted to point out that ONKYO makes some damn good receivers!

 

[PeterWhite]

As far as I can tell, the expensive electronics only sound better than less expensive electronics, with comparable power and distortion specs, when you know which one you're listening to. In blind testing, they sound the same. I've owned some very high end electronics in the past, Marantz 7c pre-amp and 8b power amp, as well as several different Luxman amps, pre-amps and tuners. The switches, tone controls, and volume controls all get just as scratchy and flaky as in the less expensive stuff. There's no magic. In the really old days, there were significant differences in FM tuners. That's about it.

 

[Bluesmoke]

I never understood the point of spending crazy money on electronics. Things change so quick, and that top of the line receiver or pre/pro you bought 3 years ago is ancient and won't even net you 1/4 of its value.

My cutoff point has always been in the $600 - $1000. Here, you can get a nice equipment that has most of the features of its bigger brothers.

 

[tcfish19]

Arcam uses a Class G switching Amp. Rotel uses a Class D switching amp. Onkyo uses a Class AB amp.

 

[lsiberian]

Seems Arcam is smart. They can sell 1/10th the units and get paid the same as Onkyo.

 

[bandphan]

Arcam uses a Class G switching Amp. Rotel uses a Class D switching amp. Onkyo uses a Class AB amp.

Are you saying that switching amps have a lower SNR and crosstalk than class ab or a or b?

 

[Bluesmoke]

Seems Arcam is smart. They can sell 1/10th the units and get paid the same as Onkyo.

Arcam will be lucky if they sell 1/100 of what Onkyo sells.

 

[tcfish19]

Are you saying that switching amps have a lower SNR and crosstalk than class ab or a or b?

Nope, just making note of the major difference with these three amps. If I were looking for reasons for performance variables that's where I would start.

 

[Lordoftherings]

So how in the heck can a $600 Onkyo receiver kick the crap out of a $5000 & $2600 receiver in the audio measurements???

It's all about who's got balls.

 

[croseiv]

But even if the specs are better, and they sound the same, does it really matter? Why spend all that extra money just for bragging rights? Sure, a lot of that stuff looks good on paper, but unless every bit of your system is super high quality, and you listen in room with no outside noise, it doesn't really matter. I say spend your money on better speakers, and if need be, some room treatments, unless one of those devices offers some feature that the lower end stuff doesn't have, it's just not practical.

At a point it becomes how much money can someone throw at an object?....That's exactly the bragging rights and that's all it is. It's no longer SQ but who has spent the most cash...When you get into the greater than $2500 per piece of equipment, there's no longer the performance to dollar benefit.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Numbers & comparisons.

Or about this:

* The pioneer Elite SC-09 retails for $7,000 and weights 70 pounds.

* The Sherwood RX-5502 retails for $200 and weights 22 pounds.
(Even some Pioneer own brand models retail for $199 and weight almost 20 pounds.)

--> Now 70 pounds vs. 22 pounds is just a bit over 3 times more the weight.

--> And $7,000 vs. $200 is 35 times the retail price.

>>> Take 35 Sherwood receivers, and the total weight equals 770 pounds.
That's now 11 times the weight of the Pioneer.
And that, for the same retail price of the Pioneer.


<> I know, I know, it's not a fair comparison, but nonetheless, it still gives you an idea, a measure of counterbalance.

@ The final evaluation is based on your wallet and priorities.