A real part of American history lost yesterday

Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
This guy was an arrogant snob who was a dilittante at best as a Defense Sectetary. Closed-minded and irritatingly condescending are attributes that come to my mind. I guess he later admitted his effups in his autobiography... which I will never read. He ruined many lives, IMHO. (With respect to full disclosure, I admit to being immersed in the counter culture of the time. ;))

But yes, he was definitely a large bump in American history.
 
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nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
I am too young to have experienced the effects that the Vietnam War had on our country, so my emotional reaction is limited. No amount of reading or learning can capture the full scoop of this time period in our history.

With that being said, McNamara was so much more than just the Vietnam War. I doubt you’ll take the time, but it would only take 2 hours to watch The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara. If anything, it’s a valuable lesson in what it is like to be in the top levels of our government, regardless of how you feel about the man himself.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
I am too young to have experienced the effects that the Vietnam War had on our country, so my emotional reaction is limited. No amount of reading or learning can capture the full scoop of this time period in our history.
Then you must not have read "The Best and the Brightest" by David Halberstam. Probably the best book ever written about the Vietnam War. It should be required reading for anybody interested in understanding how the war started and was escalated while pretty much giving it no chance to succeed. There are also some interesting parallels that can be drawn from the "whiz kid" cabinet of JFK and the "whiz kids" who ran a bunch of companies and banks into the ground of the last 10 years (e.g. Enron, LTCM, Lehman, etc).
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
When I first saw the Fog of War, where Robert McNamara admitted his errors during the Vietnam War, I got angry at him all over again. My first thought was "what took you so long to admit you were wrong!" Now, I look at him a bit differently.

Accounts of recent history seem to go through a predictable life cycle. With any big historical event, such as the Vietnam War, it seems this life cycle is at least 40 years long, and encompasses several stages in which the story can change. The first stage is usually up to the press who make the numerous daily news reports. These stories, usually concerned with reporting the events of the day, avoid making any analysis or long-term conclusions. They do however reflect the public opinion of the times. Because the politicians who make the principle decisions are still alive and may still be in office, very few people get involved in any serious analysis or criticism. It's just too controversial to touch yet.

Roughly 15-30 years later, as the central players retire or die off, their memoirs or biographies appear. Usually, these second-wave versions of history applaud the acts that of those politicians, attack any critics, and sometimes indulge in what is called "revisionist history". This type of history, written by the principle actors or their defenders, usually does not stand up well to the test of time.

After about 40-50 years, when most of the principle actors (and their political offspring) are gone from the scene, younger historians start examining the past events. Often they are young enough to have no direct connection to past controversies. They also have access to many documents that may have been recently declassified and were not previously available. These writers will produce the first real objective analysis of these past events. For the Vietnam War, this is still going on now.

Robert McNamara is a rare exception to this general pattern. He was certainly one of the principle architects of the disastrous Vietnam War. But he never wrote any so-called revisionist history or memoirs defending what he did. In fact, late in his long life, he surprised his critics by admitting just how wrong he was. He said the USA should never have gotten involved in a Vietnamese civil war.

I can't think of any other major actor in recent history who has done that. Imagine Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon or Henry Kissinger admitting their errors. Image anyone one of the neocons who advocated invading Iraq admiting it was a bad idea. So McNamara does indeed shoulder major responsibility for the mistakes of the Vietnam War, but he also gets credit coming forward to admit it.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I greatly enjoyed watching the Fog of War. I've watched one other film by Errol Morris, and that was Fast, Cheap and Out of Control. Now I want to rewatch the Fog of War, and check out some other Morris documentaries. :)

My friend was hired for an evening as a driver, and the car was a very long, light colored Continental, IIRC. It was McNamara's car at one point I was told. I had a pic, but I think I deleted it.

And his middle name is very strange. :p
 

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