Need some quick advice: Pioneer Elite or Denon?

[Shintsu]

I have the chance at two pretty nice receivers, but I would like some opinions from AH on the matter.

The Pioneer Elite is a VSX-45TX and the Denon is an AVR-4802. Both are massive receivers with THX, gobs of connections (Except HDMI but not a big deal to me at all), and lots of other home theatre processing. The Pioneer Elite simply has a large remote with a LCD readout at the top - the Denon is an LCD screen remote with only a few buttons that aren't inside the screen. I compared MSRPs and from best I can tell the Pioneer Elite was $1400 new (As per Pioneer's site) and the Denon was $1800 new (But I've seen some reviews citing a $3,000 price tag as well as others claiming it was 50% off and the price after that deduction was $1,000 - making it seem as though it was $2,000 new).

Both have the manuals and remotes as far as I know and work great (I've yet to look at either). The main difference is price. The Pioneer Elite is $200, the Denon is $300. Both of these monsters are overkill for my application but hey - for prices like that it seems worthwhile.

What do you all recommend? I can afford either one, but the only thing I haven't been getting lots of emails back from the guy with the Denon - the person with the Pioneer Elite has been very responsive and answered all my questions. In both situations these people are selling them because they've purchased newer and nicer receivers. Oh, both sales are through Craigslist which is why I mention e-mails.

Please give me some advice folks, I am planning to go and look at them tomorrow but so far have only been able to finalize looking at the Pioneer Elite. At current I just plan to look at it and then go look at the Denon but I don't know if it's worth risking someone else buying the Pioneer Elite on the hope the guy with the Denon will reply back.

 

[MatthewB.]

I own the 4802 and let me tell you to this day it is still the best reciever I have ever owned. This coming from a guy who also has a Denon 3808ci and an Onkyo 805. My favorite is still the Denon 4802and I use it daily in my office hooked up to AV123 Strata Minis. I have helped install about 100 HT systems, and have heard my fair share of recievers, and I still love the Denon 4802. For 300.00 I would be all over that in a friggin heartbeat (especailly if it comes with that LCD remote (which by itself retails for 500.00)

The Denon when it came out retailed for 2,200.00 and is a workhorse, The only reason I relegated it to my office system, was I wanted to take advantage of the new audio codecs and HDMI. I was getting lossless audio via analog preins, but when I had both Bluray and HD-DVD it became apparant I needed HDMI to be able to use both.

But no matter how much I test, tweak and audition other recievers, I still consider the Denon 4802 the one to beat them all. The sound of music in Pure Direct mode is just breathtaking. the other benefit is that with the Denon you can adjust the crossover for each channel where with the Pioneer you have to choose one crossover for all the channels.

I have been using my Denon daily for almost seven years with never one single issue. Something I can't say about the two Pioneer recievers I have gone through. Don;t get me wrong, I like the Pioneers, but if given the choice, I would choose the Denon every day and twice on Sundays it's just that good and the amp in this thing is a beast (have you seen the transformer in the 4802, thing is bigger than ones in high end amps.)

and here's an excellant article on the 4802.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_1/denon-avr-4802-receiver-1-2002.html

 

[croseiv]

I own the 4802 and let me tell you to this day it is still the best reciever I have ever owned. This coming from a guy who also has a Denon 3808ci and an Onkyo 805. My favorite is still the Denon 4802and I use it daily in my office hooked up to AV123 Strata Minis. I have helped install about 100 HT systems, and have heard my fair share of recievers, and I still love the Denon 4802. For 300.00 I would be all over that in a friggin heartbeat (especailly if it comes with that LCD remote (which by itself retails for 500.00)

The Denon when it came out retailed for 2,200.00 and is a workhorse, The only reason I relegated it to my office system, was I wanted to take advantage of the new audio codecs and HDMI. I was getting lossless audio via analog preins, but when I had both Bluray and HD-DVD it became apparant I needed HDMI to be able to use both.

But no matter how much I test, tweak and audition other recievers, I still consider the Denon 4802 the one to beat them all. The sound of music in Pure Direct mode is just breathtaking. the other benefit is that with the Denon you can adjust the crossover for each channel where with the Pioneer you have to choose one crossover for each channel.

I have been using my Denon daily for almost seven years with never one single issue. Something I can't say about the two Pioneer recievers I have gone through. Don;t get me wrong, I like the Pioneers, but if given the choice, I would choose the Denon every day and twice on Sundays it's just that good and the amp in this thing is a beast (have you seen the capicitor in the 4802, thing is bigger than ones in high end amps.)

and here's an excellant article on the 4802.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_1/denon-avr-4802-receiver-1-2002.html

I've always been very impressed with the 4802. It's a real beauty.

 

[MatthewB.]

Oh yeah one more thing, the Denon is a big arse reciever, I mean it's huge and weighs 45 pounds. Mainly because the amp and trasnformer in this thing are so big.

 

[Shintsu]

Wow, I had no idea that remote was that pricey - I figured $300 or so but damn $500! Hope that never breaks! I too must confess, we have a Pioneer receiver in the living room and the volume knob on it only goes up no matter which way you turn it (works fine via remote). The buttons on the front are broke in on one side too. It's newer than most of the receivers in our house yet it's in the worst shape! The old Onkyo SV50 Pro in the bedroom is flawless in every way. Another PITA is getting DTS to work on that Pioneer - it requires you to turn the Optical port on or off for it to accept a DTS signal or some confusing crap like that. DTS has been a pain to get working on most receivers I've had (Except my computer speakers - amazing that they're the only ones that are 100% automatic in recognizing DTS).

The autosetup microphone on the Pioneer was seeming attractive for simplicity of setup but asides from the recommendations I've heard for the Denon here, I read a review complimenting the Denon's performance with speakers in a small room which is where I'll be using it. People keep mentioning the Pioneer Elite sells for like $175 on eBay or something but I don't see it - all the Elite's on eBay are $300+. But I guess given the reviews of it and recommendation by everyone here and a friend of mine have sealed the deal unless something is wrong with the receiver. Thanks guys!

 

[Lordoftherings]

About the NAD T 775 A/V receiver?

Or if it's too much, the NAD T 747 then, very nice and it's a NAD.
Just check around for a sweet deal.

Bob

 

[MatthewB.]

Well?????? How are you enjoying the new toy?

 

[Lordoftherings]

New toy! Who? Me? Him? You? What? How? When? Where? Why?.. Is this really happening?

Well?????? How are you enjoying the new toy?

Hey Matthew, is this a question for me? Because if it is, I ain't got no NAD.
I was just suggesting the NAD, because our OP seems to be a NAD fan, that's all.
>> Or did I post in the wrong thread, I thought I saw a big NAD avatar somewhere!!!
Now it's gone!!! Heck! What's happening now? Is it me? Or is it really me? Must be me?

* And by the way Matthew, what is the capacitance of each of those big caps in your Denon AVR-4802R? Are they 33,000uF each?

 

[MatthewB.]

LOTR, question was for Shintsu Not sure what the capicitance is, if I recall I think it's 24,000

 

[Lordoftherings]

LOTR, question was for Shintsu Not sure what the capicitance is, if I recall I think it's 24,000

Thanks, that removes some of my confusion, but I cannot still remember why I suggest him a Nad receiver in the first place? Beats me.

As for the 4802R, you cannot see through the vents? Don't bother.
Anyway, don't really matter to me personally, it was more for Seth=L, that I was asking, as he get me into that now.
What's next!

But 24,000uF seems quite right.

 

[MatthewB.]

LOTR, the vents run along the top sides and just the front half, you can see the transformer and the heat sinks and that's it, the back half is solid.

 

[Lordoftherings]

>>>>> Alert-alert-alert-alert-alert <<<<<

LOTR, the vents run along the top sides and just the front half, you can see the transformer and the heat sinks and that's it, the back half is solid.

Yeah, I did figure that one out.
And I also did some research, but I could not come up with anything concrete.
My best guest so far, is from your own belief first, 24,000uF, then there is also the possibility of 27,000uF or 33,000uF.
I'm alsmost certain that it is one of these three figures.
I will eventually get it, I always do. Seriously though.
With some more research or help from another member.


Pssst... Matthew, let me try this trick (keep it very quiet though).


<<<<<<<<<< IMPORTANT CONFIRMATION >>>>>>>>>>

OK, EVERYBODY, I just found out that the Denon AVR-4802R has two big block capcitors, rated at 33,000uF (microfarads) per cap.
I challenge anyone to proove me wrong. And I'm convinced that NOBODY would be able to contest my absolute statement.

P.S. If someone, by any luck (lol), can contradict my firm CONVICTtion (notice the word "convict" in the word "conviction" ), there will be a full package free trip for two, all expenses paid by Air Fare Travel Agolomania, for a full YEAR, yes, you did read that right, A FULL YEAR, and with full escort service department from the syndicate of exotic dancers of Honkong, and during the full time of the trip.
By the way, it is a FREE trip around the entire WORLD.
All food, lodging, drinks, bars, hotels, condominiums, villas, mansions, penthouses, cocktails, hard liquor, jewelry, gold, diamonds and clothing are all paid up totally free and included in the full package.
So, do your research. Go get it Tarzan. And good luck.
Because you gonna need it. As I know that you'll never be able to find any proof at all that I am absolutely, irrevocably, unequivocally, unanimously, unambiguously, unobjectionably, unparallelely and unquestionably positively certain, indisputable and undeniable.
So, put this in your pipe, and smoke it! .......................................

Bob

 

[MatthewB.]

LOTR, now that you mention I think you are correct (do I get the hookers? ) Thanks for the info.

 

[Lordoftherings]

LOTR, now that you mention I think you are correct (do I get the hookers? ) Thanks for the info.

Matthew! Come on now! Behave yourself. They are not hookers,
they are exotic dancers from a very reputable escort service agency.
They are directly hired by the Aviation department of King Kong, !!!~ I mean Honk Konk, called AeroFair Travel Agolomania.

So,... Cool off, would you?

 

[MatthewB.]

LMAO that was great.

 

[Shintsu]

Yes, I did have an NAD avatar - mostly because it was the central piece in my system. It also looked nicer than the Adcom and Infinity pictures I was finding. I tried to find a Denon one but meh, I settled for a THX one.

Anyways, I love the receiver. One minor complaint - there are too many bass level adjusts!! I have turned it down in the channel level and then each mode has it's own LFE settings not to mention the crossover on the receiver for the LFE (THX which is 80 Hz or whatever variable I pick: 40 Hz, 60 Hz, 80 Hz, 100 Hz, or 120 Hz). My subwoofer seems to be overpowering things now, and I've fiddled with its volume and crossover levels in addition to the receiver settings. This much I miss about the NAD - it had a Subwoofer volume up or down and that was it...so simple. With this I have to go into the on-screen menu and get into a few menus to get to the channel level and if I want to adjust each preset's (Direct, Stereo, DTS, etc) sub settings I have to custom set those. Basically I need a better sub that doesn't require the volume level to be so high on it so I can have too much power and have it backed down better. Still fiddling with it trying to get it set right.

Another thing I've been looking for with little luck - some dipole or bipolar speakers. Man, talk about next to impossible to find. Can someone tell me how noticably different they would make the sound in my room? Again I'm using a rather small room so I thought something like a dipole or bipolar would give a much better surround effect than just standard bookshelf speakers would (Making it hard to localize that the sounds are coming from any one place). Are they worth all the trouble it seems to be for my system? I've also heard they go better with a THX setup - any truth?

 

[MatthewB.]

Shintsu, I have used my 4802 with my DefTech Bi[olars and now with my direct firing Strata Minis, having Bipolar or direct is dependant on the speaker and not the reciever. Both sounded great in my opinion. I think my direct firing sounds fantastic, but again this is because of the speaker not the reciever.

'The 4802 is fantastic because of the power it has, the features, the setup and it's pure direct mode. The best thing you can do to get the most out of speakers is to apply room acoustics to cater the sound to it's optimum.

As for you bass levels adjust the sound level in teh reciever to turn it down (or on the sub itself) adjusting the crossover will not give you heavy bass (unless the crossover is adjusted way too high) buying a soundmeter and using it will be the best thing you can do.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Thank you Mr. NAD man, now Mr. THX man.

I will like to take this opportunity to Thank Shintsu, who finally came forward with the revelation of previously using an NAD avatar.

It saves me the quite frustrating search about that famous NAD avatar.
Because I always like to know where my mistakes are coming from.

* By the way Shintsu, I also thought that I saw a NAD component before in your signature.
And now, it seems to be gone! Am I wrong?

Cheers,

Bob

 

[Shintsu]

Indeed you did see an NAD component previously - a surround preamp. The NAD and Adcom previously were the central pieces in my sound setup but with the purchase of the Denon I no longer need them. While I'd love to keep them, I really have no reason to or anywhere else I can use them and the money I make selling the two of them will make up for the money I dipped into to buy the Denon (And I may possibly come out in the green from it depending on what I get for the two of them). I contemplated replacing the Onkyo in my bedroom (Which has a remote that was working and now isn't - the functioning remote being very important since I used it when going to sleep) with the two of them but I couldn't really sell the Onkyo for much. Truly isn't that important to be able to listen in there, it was somewhat of an ambition of mine since I had at the time finished my main setup. But now with the search for suitable rear and center channels (I am trying to get a friend of mine to break up his set of NIB B&W 5.1speakers - the rears being a pair of DM 601 S2's) I will need the extra cash to pick up something good and still have some left over for another toy I've been looking for!

 

[Lordoftherings]

^ Thank you Shintsu for the explanation, it's cool man.