2.1 home theater/music receiver

[Soszai]

I'm putting together a system around either the Monitor 60s or 70s from Polk, and I'm trying to decide what type of receiver makes the most sense for a system that will be used 50/50 for music and TV/Movies.

I live in a relatively small apartment, and I don't intend to have more speakers beyond the two fronts and maybe a sub. In that case, does it make sense to have a 7.1 or even a 5.1 receiver?

I've been looking at things in the Yamaha 663 and Onkyo 605 range (i.e. under $500), but I'm wondering if I can get significantly better sound by going with a 2-channel setup. It would be great if the 2-channel receiver could also handle HDMI switching, but that's probably a rare combo of features

Also, what kind of wattage to I really need to drive these speakers? The M60s have a power rating of 20-200 watts and the 70s are 20-275 watts.

Any thoughts are welcome. Thanks

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum!

Finding a stereo receiver with a subwoofer output is possible, but finding one with a subwoofer output and bass management isn't so easy. Plus, like you said, I don't know of any stereo receivers with HDMI inputs/outputs (but I don't know about all of them).

I'd recommend getting a surround sound receiver for at least three reasons. First, you'll get a subwoofer output with bass management. Second, you'll get the HDMI inputs/outputs that you want.

Third, surround sound receivers have the audio decoders for movie soundtracks, but they still let you play those in 2.1 - and that's a big selling point to me. My Pioneer will play Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks in 2.1, and they sound great to me. If your disc player will already do that, then it's not as big of deal to you, but I think it's a strong reason to seriously consider a surround sound receiver even if you're just using two speakers and a sub.

Also, because surround sound receivers are more popular and more of them get purchased, you tend to get more for your money (IMO).

 

[Soszai]

Ideal Power Rating

Thanks Adam, a surround receiver is the way I was leaning. I just wanted too make sure I wasn't needlessly overpaying for features I had no intention of using.

As for power requirements, do you believe that the 95 WPC of the Yamaha 663 would be sufficient to drive the Monitor 60s given their 20-200W power range.

I guess I'm looking for a rule of thumb on power. Do you really want to be at the top end of your speaker's range to get the best sound? I'm not overly concerned with loudness because I live in an apartment - just sound quality.

Thanks again

 

[sholling]

Adam as usual has excellent advice but let me add one thing. If you're going to use this 50:50 for music and TV/videos I'd add an acoustically matched center channel speaker. You don't need surrounds but a center makes watching a video much more pleasant.

 

[Adam]

Hi, again. Sorry for the delay - I'm setting up a new TV stand. (New TV coming on Monday. )

I don't think that the 663 will have trouble driving the Monitor 60s, unless you like to listen really quite loud. That receiver got a lot of good remarks on this forum last year when it came out. The specification that I think is applicable here is the sensitivity of the speakers, which is 90 dB (same for the Monitor 70s). That can be kind of meaningless to most people, so I'll say this - the higher the sensivity, the louder a speaker will play at any given amount of power. 90 dB is probably about average if I had to guess. The 663 should be able to play those speakers pretty loud before you notice degradation. If your apartment is like mine used to be, then you'll probably bother your neighbors before you have problems with that receiver.

A nice thing about the 663 is that it has outputs for an external amp, which is nice if you decide that you want more power. If you listen at normal volumes, I don't think that you'd notice a difference with an external amp. If you like to crank it up (perhaps later on if you get a bigger place), then an amp might be a nice addition.

 

[Lordoftherings]

More info.

For more information:

1. The Yamaha RX-V765 is only $400 at 6th avenue, includes free shipping.
2. The Yamaha RX-V665 is $350, same place, same free shipping.
3. The Onkyo TX-SR607 is $375, again same place.

4. And the Onkyo TX-SR606 is $319.99 at accessories 4 less.
-> http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR606/Onkyo/TX-SR606-90w-x-7ch-HDMI-Theater-Receiver-BLACK/1.html

5. And the marantz SR5002 is only $349.99 at accessories 4 less.
-> http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5002/Marantz/SR5002-receiver-90w-x-7ch-HDMI-home-theater-surround/1.html
* Just scroll down a bit.

* Note: At 6th avenue, you "make your price", you make them an offer, and they'll let you know if they accept your offer.

So, these 5 receivers are much below $500, and they are exactly what type of receivers you're looking for.

Bob

 

[lsiberian]

For 2 channel I think my receiver is amazing.

HK AVR 247 it cost me only 205 bucks it has 7.1 capabilities, but is a really good 2 channel. Either way I suggest you check out the harman audio store. They have good stereo receivers.

 

[Soszai]

How important is lossless audio?

One of the main reasons I've been leaning towards the Yamaha 663 is that it is consistently described relatively future-proof due to its ability to handle the newer HD audio formats. Is the ability to decode these in the receiver really that important?

Also, would you expect noticeably better sound from the Marantz 5002 or 6001 (both are $350), and would they still be viable in ~3 years?

As for HK and Onkyo - They've been on my shortlist too, but I've heard more enthusiastic support for the new Yamaha.

Thanks again for all your help. This is a lot to sort through

 

[Lordoftherings]

For 2 channel I think my receiver is amazing.

HK AVR 247 it cost me only 205 bucks it has 7.1 capabilities, but is a really good 2 channel. Either way I suggest you check out the harman audio store. They have good stereo receivers.

Wow! That's a pretty good price for the HK AVR 247. Nothing wrong with that, for sure.

One of the main reasons I've been leaning towards the Yamaha 663 is that it is consistently described relatively future-proof due to its ability to handle the newer HD audio formats. Is the ability to decode these in the receiver really that important?

Also, would you expect noticeably better sound from the Marantz 5002 or 6001 (both are $350), and would they still be viable in ~3 years?

As for HK and Onkyo - They've been on my shortlist too, but I've heard more enthusiastic support for the new Yamaha.

Thanks again for all your help. This is a lot to sort through

The Yamaha RX-V663 is a mighty fine receiver. It does decodes the new high resolution audio formats, so it's up to date, it should last you a good while.
It is not essential, but it is common feature now in all newer receivers.

As for your second question, the simple answer is NO. You won't notice a difference in sound quality enough to influence your purchase.
Plus the Yamaha RX-V663 is the only one from these 3 receivers that include the internal decoders for the newer Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, because it is the only one that has the HDMI version 1.3, which you need for internally decoding these new audio codecs.
So, in a way the RX-V663 is more recent and up to date. The main advantage of decoding the new high res. audio codecs in the receiver, is that you'll see their logos on the front display of the RX-V663, no more no less.

So, in the end, if you are inclined toward the Yammy RX-V663 A/V receiver, feel confident about this choice, as it is one of the better one.
And check around, because I'm sure that it can be had for less than $350.
If the RX-V665 can be had for $350, the RX-V663 can surely be had for less than $300. Just make a price ( from the Price Alert, into the Target price box) from 6th avenue electronics web site. Start with $249, up to $299, till you get it.
* It's quite simple, you make them an offer by writing down the price that you would like to pay in the "Target Price" box area, and with your e-mail address, and then click on "Submit", voila. They will contact you and let you know if they have accepted your price offer. So simple, and you save a bunch too.

Here: http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=YAMRXV663BL-OPN

Price Alert: http://www.6ave.com/shop/PriceAlert.aspx?id=YAMRXV663BL-OPN

Note: Because it is an open box item, I bet that if you offer them $249, you'll get it.
If not, $279 should do it.

Bob

 

[3db]

One of the main reasons I've been leaning towards the Yamaha 663 is that it is consistently described relatively future-proof due to its ability to handle the newer HD audio formats. Is the ability to decode these in the receiver really that important?

Also, would you expect noticeably better sound from the Marantz 5002 or 6001 (both are $350), and would they still be viable in ~3 years?

As for HK and Onkyo - They've been on my shortlist too, but I've heard more enthusiastic support for the new Yamaha.

Thanks again for all your help. This is a lot to sort through

Although BluRay also contains the standard Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks which are considered lossy, the claimed better sound does come from the new lossless formats. To take advantage of the better sound, you need a receiver that can handle those codecs. Is it worth it? I don't know since I do not own a Blu Ray player so I don't know if its sounds that much better. I'll leave that for the people who have compared both to give you the answer. As far as being futur proof, I don't forsee the old lossy foprmats dieing away anytime soon. But on the otherhand, although I don't yet own a Bluray player or a high def display, I bought the Yamaha RX-V1800 for a good price last October to ensure that i'm good to go once I jump into the new formats.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Oh Ya.

YES, the new high resolution audio codecs sound better to my set of ears than the old bland DD & Dts audio formats, period.

I'll say, that is an important, very important feature to have in a receiver, to be able to handle these new high res. audio formats, be it, inside the receiver or inside the blu-ray player.

 

[lsiberian]

One of the main reasons I've been leaning towards the Yamaha 663 is that it is consistently described relatively future-proof due to its ability to handle the newer HD audio formats. Is the ability to decode these in the receiver really that important?

Also, would you expect noticeably better sound from the Marantz 5002 or 6001 (both are $350), and would they still be viable in ~3 years?

As for HK and Onkyo - They've been on my shortlist too, but I've heard more enthusiastic support for the new Yamaha.

Thanks again for all your help. This is a lot to sort through

I suggest you go to a store with receivers from different brands and play with them. See what you like. Receivers are really control centers. You want one that fits your personality. That being said a 663 for 250 would be insane.

 

[Lordoftherings]

That being said a 663 for 250 would be insane.

Yeah, I'll be curious to see at what kind of offer it will go through.
I'm 99.99% sure that $299 would work.
And maybe $249 would pass, who knows?

The only one closest to that one, was the 665 for $349.
Or the 765 for $399.
Or the 465 for $259.

These last 3, went all true (accepted).

And who knows, the HK AVR 247 might be accepted for $139.

 

[Soszai]

Time to buy

And I was ready to pay $390 plus shipping for the 663 through Amazon, because I have some gift certificates to burn. I'll give haggling with 6th ave a shot though.

There doesn't seem to be any real downside to the 663. At worst, I'm paying a little extra for codecs that I may not use for a while. The odds of buyer's remorse seem low.

Thanks again everyone. I'll let you know what 6th ave comes back with.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Yamaha RX-V663.

And I was ready to pay $390 plus shipping for the 663 through Amazon, because I have some gift certificates to burn. I'll give haggling with 6th ave a shot though.

There doesn't seem to be any real downside to the 663. At worst, I'm paying a little extra for codecs that I may not use for a while. The odds of buyer's remorse seem low.

Thanks again everyone. I'll let you know what 6th ave comes back with.

Some people prefer the 663 over the 665, and I'm one of them.

Right now, the advertised price for the 663 is $348.66 at 6th avenue.
But try to make an offer at $250 to start the game, and they'll tell you if they accept or not, or they might just tell you the minimum that they'll be ready to accept.
Just keep in touch to let us know what deal you got.
Here's my best guess, between $279 and $299. But do start at $249, you never know.

* That should pass, because the Yammy RX-V765 did pass at $399 (free shipping).

Bob

Note: Keep your gift certificates from Amazon for some good deals on blu-ray titles.

 

[Soszai]

6th Ave Price Alert

LordoftheRings: Is the Price Alert feature at 6th Ave automatic, or is there a person involved? I tried $270, and I got an auto-reply saying that they would let me know. Does this mean that the price was too low, and I should go up a little, or does it mean I should give them a little while to respond?

 

[Lordoftherings]

The better receiver is the Onkyo TX-SR606.

LordoftheRings: Is the Price Alert feature at 6th Ave automatic, or is there a person involved? I tried $270, and I got an auto-reply saying that they would let me know. Does this mean that the price was too low, and I should go up a little, or does it mean I should give them a little while to respond?

If I was you, I'll go with the Onkyo TX-SR606. Get it from accessories 4 less, at only $320. It is the better receiver.
* http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR606/Onkyo/TX-SR606-90w-x-7ch-HDMI-Theater-Receiver-BLACK/1.html

If it's sold out, just put a bid of $350 on the Onkyo TX-SR607 at 6th avenue.
* Onkyo TX-SR607: http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=ONKTXSR607

* TX-SR607 Price Alert: http://www.6ave.com/shop/PriceAlert.aspx?id=ONKTXSR607

As for their reply, you'll have to wait a bit longer, or retry another offer.
But before you do, just forget it, and go with the Onkyo TX-SR606, or the TX-SR607.

Check this out:

1. Onkyo TX-Sr606: http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/608onk606/

2. Yamaha RX-V663: http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/608yam663

So, get the Onkyo 606 (or the 607), period. Sorry of being late to let you know.

Best regards,

Bob

 

[Soszai]

Onkyo 607 it is

I had never heard the Yamaha 663 cast is such a negative light before, but with a direct comparison like that, it's hard to argue.

I put in an offer this morning for the Onkyo 607 at $350, and 6th Ave just accepted it. Unfortunately, the black one is on back order, so I'm going with the silver. That's a small complaint for landing such a great receiver at that price.

Thanks everyone. This has definitely been a good learning experience, and a great result

 

[Lordoftherings]

BRavo!

I had never heard the Yamaha 663 cast is such a negative light before, but with a direct comparison like that, it's hard to argue.

I put in an offer this morning for the Onkyo 607 at $350, and 6th Ave just accepted it. Unfortunately, the black one is on back order, so I'm going with the silver. That's a small complaint for landing such a great receiver at that price.

Thanks everyone. This has definitely been a good learning experience, and a great result

Well, I thought that these two reviews side by side by the same magazine will help you with your decision. And besides, with the 607 you got 6 HDMI inputs, instead of just 2 with the 663. Plus you got Dolby Digital Pro Locic IIz. And it's power results on the bench are better than the Yammy. The Onkyo 607 is a true small (big) powerhouse. More HDMI inputs (6) is a much better feature in my book than pre-outs (which I never use anyway). But 6 HDMI, ya baby! I can use these anytime.
You also got the latest in a receiver. And at $350 for the 607, I'll say it's a no-brainer. You should be very happy with it, and it will last you a very long time too.
But you should tell them that you would like the black one, I'm sure they can accomodate you.

I'm glad that I post my post just in time to turn the tide, because now, you made the right choice. Good thing too that I said to bid low before on that 663, or you would have end up with it. I'm sure that the 663 is a fine receiver too, but from further research, the 607 is the better choice, and you did. Congratulations! And Keep in touch to let us know how you enjoy it, or for any questions on setup, connections or any other matter.

Regards,

Bob

 

[Franklin]

Third, surround sound receivers have the audio decoders for movie soundtracks, but they still let you play those in 2.1 - and that's a big selling point to me. My Pioneer will play Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks in 2.1, and they sound great to me. If your disc player will already do that, then it's not as big of deal to you, but I think it's a strong reason to seriously consider a surround sound receiver even if you're just using two speakers and a sub.

Also, because surround sound receivers are more popular and more of them get purchased, you tend to get more for your money (IMO).

I appreciate this information because I need to use a 5.1 receiver in a 2.1 configuration due to room size limitations. Do most 5.1 receivers work as your Pioneer in a 2.1 set-up? If so, are the channels mixed down from 5.1 to 2.1, or do you lose 3 channels? If they're mixed down, is the audio converted into virtual surround like Dolby Virtual Speaker or some other simulated surround sound?

Thanks.