Transmission line cabinets

CraigV

CraigV

Audioholic General
The simple explanation is a series of “walls” inside the enclosure to extend bass response.
 

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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
A transmission line cabinet is a different design type than the more common sealed or ported cabinets. It uses an enclosed column of air behind a speaker to enhance bass response. Depending on length, the column can be folded or straight. The length of the column is usually one fourth the wavelength of the tuning frequency. With sealed cabinets, the tuning is determined by the cabinet volume, and with ported cabinets, the tuning comes from a combination of interior volume and port vent size.

Their main advantage is superior bass sound, but they can be more complex and expensive to build. Sealed or ported cabinets are easily modeled mathmatically, so it has been easy to predict their response without actually building anything. Until recently, the response from TL cabinets were not easily predicted by math modeling. It required trial and error with real lumber as well as luck and experience. Now modeling software designed by Martin J. King has made TL designing much more predictable and reliable. As a result, a few commercial TL speakers are now available.
 
G

griffinconst

Senior Audioholic
You guys know of a few brands?
Sorry for being so lazy, I'll just google it...or do we "bing" it now? :rolleyes:
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
The Salk's are amazing. I just heard the Songtower this weekend at a friends parents house. We played a bunch of stuff quite loud and they were not even breathin hard...they had very good low end extension for a smaller tower and for the price they are a really nice product. The Salk is the first speaker I have listened to in a long time that blew me away. I am looking at Salk for my next purchase. Sorry to go off topic a bit but the Salks are transmission line speakers..:D
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
What does that mean?
Take a look at this article.

Here you can see some TLs under construction.

TLs come in a number of guises, and there is confusion over the Voight quarter wave horn, which is really a type of TL.

The mathematical model for the aperiodically damped TL was published by G.L. Ausperger in 2000.

Many, including myself dispute that Martin King's designs are TLs. I regard them a specialized coupled cavity reflexes.

A TL in essence belongs to the family of Gedeckt organ pipes. These ranks are wooden pipes closed at one end and open at the other. The physics shows that the pipe is a quarter wavelength of the fundamental.

Now an organ builder wants a definite note and resonance. The speaker designer does not.

The TL speaker has a reverse taper, usually around 3:1. This spreads the output of the pipe over about 1.5 octaves. There is a mathematical reltionship between the Fs of the driver and the pipe resonance Fb and therefore pipe length, Lp.

Ausperger's great contribution was showing the relationship of driver VAS (equivalent volume) to the pipe volume Vb.

Now an undamped or under damped pipe will have two impedance peaks like a reflex enclosure. The roll off will be fourth order 24 db per octave below F3. However if sufficient damping material is added, then the enclosure develops one peak of impedance and the roll off is second order, 12 db per octave below F3. At the point where this occurs the pipe becomes what is called critically damped, and the sytem Qt drops to around O.5, and reproduction becomes essentially non resonant. F3 is lower, much lower than for a sealed alignment with the same woofer, and also woofer output is augmented over 1.5 octaves, whereas a closed box does not augment the woofer at all. At the smae time Qt is generally lower by a significant magnitude.

In a properly aligned TL there is a deep powerful non resonant bass, so that typms sound perfectly realistic and so do bass strings and the bass strings of the piano etc.

Very few people have ever heard a good TL. They do sound significantly different from other designs. They touch the bass line softly and gently, but an explosion, canon shot or a big bass drum really hits you in the chest. I have found this creates total surprise. The speakers do not advertise or seem as if they have a big bass. However when bass a plenty is there and called for, it right there causing total surprise to those having their first initiation.
Pipe organs are reproduced with phenomenal realism.

To give you an idea of how realistic the bass is, I a have a friend with a pair of B & W 800 Ds. Now these are a fine speaker, and not ones known to be over tubby. However my friend envies the bass definition and power of this system every time he hears it. The bass clarity and lack of muddle that is the hallmark of good TLs, allow the rest of the musical spectrum to speak with clarity, as long as the total design is competent.


A TL is really a home constructors paradise. I think that it fair to say, that since TDL closed its doors, TLs have largely been the province of the DIY community.

If you are considering building a TL, I strongly encourage you.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Take a look at this article.

Here you can see some TLs under construction.

TLs come in a number of guises, and there is confusion over the Voight quarter wave horn, which is really a type of TL.

The mathematical model for the aperiodically damped TL was published by G.L. Ausperger in 2000.

Many, including myself dispute that Martin King's designs are TLs. I regard them a specialized coupled cavity reflexes.

A TL in essence belongs to the family of Gedeckt organ pipes. These ranks are wooden pipes closed at one end and open at the other. The physics shows that the pipe is a quarter wavelength of the fundamental.

Now an organ builder wants a definite note and resonance. The speaker designer does not.

The TL speaker has a reverse taper, usually around 3:1. This spreads the output of the pipe over about 1.5 octaves. There is a mathematical reltionship between the Fs of the driver and the pipe resonance Fb and therefore pipe length, Lp.

Ausperger's great contribution was showing the relationship of driver VAS (equivalent volume) to the pipe volume Vb.

Now an undamped or under damped pipe will have two impedance peaks like a reflex enclosure. The roll off will be fourth order 24 db per octave below F3. However if sufficient damping material is added, then the enclosure develops one peak of impedance and the roll off is second order, 12 db per octave below F3. At the point where this occurs the pipe becomes what is called critically damped, and the sytem Qt drops to around O.5, and reproduction becomes essentially non resonant. F3 is lower, much lower than for a sealed alignment with the same woofer, and also woofer output is augmented over 1.5 octaves, whereas a closed box does not augment the woofer at all. At the smae time Qt is generally lower by a significant magnitude.

In a properly aligned TL there is a deep powerful non resonant bass, so that typms sound perfectly realistic and so do bass strings and the bass strings of the piano etc.

Very few people have ever heard a good TL. They do sound significantly different from other designs. They touch the bass line softly and gently, but an explosion, canon shot or a big bass drum really hits you in the chest. I have found this creates total surprise. The speakers do not advertise or seem as if they have a big bass. However when bass a plenty is there and called for, it right there causing total surprise to those having their first initiation.
Pipe organs are reproduced with phenomenal realism.

To give you an idea of how realistic the bass is, I a have a friend with a pair of B & W 800 Ds. Now these are a fine speaker, and not ones known to be over tubby. However my friend envies the bass definition and power of this system every time he hears it. The bass clarity and lack of muddle that is the hallmark of good TLs, allow the rest of the musical spectrum to speak with clarity, as long as the total design is competent.


A TL is really a home constructors paradise. I think that it fair to say, that since TDL closed its doors, TLs have largely been the province of the DIY community.

If you are considering building a TL, I strongly encourage you.
I can think of only one other system here that probably matches yours. That's Wmax's. I would love to hear a comparison between the two someday. Heck I would love to hear either of your systems. That would be a treat for sure. One of these days. I want to undertake some TLs using the Loki Kits and your center channel design.

You bring up the day dreaming again.:D
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
You guys know of a few brands?
Sorry for being so lazy, I'll just google it...or do we "bing" it now? :rolleyes:
Salk has two TL designs, the SongTower, and the HT2-TL; both are mass-loaded quarter wave TL (MLTL) designs as described by Martin King. I am told that Salk is working on a third MLTL to replace the Veracity QW which is more complex to build. It will also have a single SEAS W18 driver along with the same LCY ribbon tweeter as in the HT2-TL.


TLS Guy

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your expertise. When it comes to debating you or MJ King over TL designs, I smile, nod when appropriate, and most of all, keep my mouth firmly shut.

Thanks also for posting D'Appolito's Thor design article. Figure 5 (page 8) illustrates a major audible feature of a TL design's bass response. It shows the bass response measured from the TL port. It extends well above 100 Hz. I don't have a comparable figure of the same drivers in a bass reflex cabinet, but I would guess that the response is over a much narrower frequency range.

The Salk HT2-TL uses the same SEAS woofers as the Thor with an LCY ribbon tweeter, in the MLTL MJ King-based design cabinet. It would be interesting to compare them to the Thor.


jamie2112

I'm glad you liked the STs. When are you returning to Annapolis? If you want to hear some STs again, PM me. I'm always glad to show them off :D. Their designer, Dennis Murphy lives in Bethesda - not too far away. He always has some interesting stuff in his house.
 
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J

jamie2112

Banned
jamie2112

I'm glad you liked the STs. When are you returning to Annapolis? If you want to hear some STs again, PM me. I'm always glad to show them off :D. Their designer, Dennis Murphy lives in Bethesda - not too far away. He always has some interesting stuff in his house.
I wish I was going to be back there soon but I am out here now for a while at least. I am going to look at spending around 5K on my next set of speakers and Salks are at the top of the list.........I would love to listen to your Salks next time I am around for sure..
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Salk has two TL designs, the SongTower, and the HT2-TL; both are mass-loaded quarter wave TL (MLTL) designs as described by Martin King. I am told that Salk is working on a third MLTL to replace the Veracity QW which is more complex to build. It will also have a single SEAS W18 driver along with the same LCY ribbon tweeter as in the HT2-TL.
Swerd, would you think that the ribbon upgrade to be worth the $700? For that matter, how about the OW4 vs OW2?

Perhaps not the caps upgrade though, eh?

Is there any sort of return policy? Say that there is zero custom ordering, outside of the ribbons, for discussion's sake.

Thank you!

EDIT: regarding the SongTowers that is...
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Swerd, would you think that the ribbon upgrade to be worth the $700? For that matter, how about the OW4 vs OW2?

Perhaps not the caps upgrade though, eh?

Is there any sort of return policy? Say that there is zero custom ordering, outside of the ribbons, for discussion's sake.
Salk has a 30 day money back return policy for all his speakers.

The OW4 and OW2 dome tweeters are essentially the same tweeters with different coatings applied to them. The OW4 looks silvery and the OW2 is black, but they sound very close or identical.

If you are considering paying for upgraded caps, spend your money on a better wood finish instead.

I own a pair of SongTowers with the standard Hiquphon OW2 dome tweeters, and I have heard a single version of the SongTower with the LCY ribbon. It was the prototype that Dennis Murphy used while designing the crossover with the LCY tweeter. Because it was only one speaker and not a pair, I can't compare the imaging of these two speakers. But I can compare the other sound qualities of these two speakers that were apparent while listening to single copies of each.

I thought the ribbon tweeter SongTower sounded somewhat cleaner or less noisy than the dome tweeter SongTower. I only heard this on quieter music that featured a single singer or unamplified musical instrument like a piano. Louder music masked this difference. Overall this difference was, in my opinion, subtle. I am 59 years old and have ears typical of men of that age. Your high frequency hearing may differ.

The crossover frequency for both models is about 2500 Hz. That's roughly an octave lower than the highest note on a piano.

I may be somewhat biased (I bought my STs before there was a ribbon version) but, my feeling is that $700 is a lot to pay for that difference. Obviously others have felt differently.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I wish I was going to be back there soon but I am out here now for a while at least. I am going to look at spending around 5K on my next set of speakers and Salks are at the top of the list.........I would love to listen to your Salks next time I am around for sure..
That would put you in the price range of a pair of HT2-TLs, with a custom veneer like Pelin Burl or waterfall Bubinga :D:D:D
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
Good thread. Thanks.

I've been looking for a good simple explanation of TL, but have been too lazy :rolleyes: to do the search.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I can think of only one other system here that probably matches yours. That's Wmax's. I would love to hear a comparison between the two someday. Heck I would love to hear either of your systems. That would be a treat for sure. One of these days. I want to undertake some TLs using the Loki Kits and your center channel design.

You bring up the day dreaming again.:D
If you are ever up in the upper midwest you are welcome to visit and have some R & R at the same time. It is beautiful in all seasons, though you want to avoid the snow melt.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Swerd, would you think that the ribbon upgrade to be worth the $700? For that matter, how about the OW4 vs OW2?

Perhaps not the caps upgrade though, eh?

Is there any sort of return policy? Say that there is zero custom ordering, outside of the ribbons, for discussion's sake.

Thank you!

EDIT: regarding the SongTowers that is...
You have to be wary of ribbons. As in all things there are pros and cons. They have fine detail, however they have significantly higher distortion than domes especially in the lower reaches. They generally require a high order acoustic crossover. Even at that they are not good high spl drivers because of rising distortion.

If I use a ribbon tweeter, I like to be able to crossover at 4 kHz or higher.

The final problem is integration as the dispersion pattern of ribbons and the cone drivers they are usually mated with are very different.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Salk has two TL designs, the SongTower, and the HT2-TL; both are mass-loaded quarter wave TL (MLTL) designs as described by Martin King. I am told that Salk is working on a third MLTL to replace the Veracity QW which is more complex to build. It will also have a single SEAS W18 driver along with the same LCY ribbon tweeter as in the HT2-TL.


TLS Guy

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your expertise. When it comes to debating you or MJ King over TL designs, I smile, nod when appropriate, and most of all, keep my mouth firmly shut.

Thanks also for posting D'Appolito's Thor design article. Figure 5 (page 8) illustrates a major audible feature of a TL design's bass response. It shows the bass response measured from the TL port. It extends well above 100 Hz. I don't have a comparable figure of the same drivers in a bass reflex cabinet, but I would guess that the response is over a much narrower frequency range.

The Salk HT2-TL uses the same SEAS woofers as the Thor with an LCY ribbon tweeter, in the MLTL MJ King-based design cabinet. It would be interesting to compare them to the Thor.


jamie2112

I'm glad you liked the STs. When are you returning to Annapolis? If you want to hear some STs again, PM me. I'm always glad to show them off :D. Their designer, Dennis Murphy lives in Bethesda - not too far away. He always has some interesting stuff in his house.
Yes the output from the port/mouth of a TL is over a much greater frequency range, than a reflex port, and has much less distortion.

I have listened to TLs so long now, that whenever I listen to reflex enclosures I'm very aware of the port "kick in". That includes my own, and I try hard to disguise it. I'm certainly aware of it listening the B & W 800 Ds. The port and woofer sounds have significantly different sonic signatures, and you are never aware of that in a TL.
 
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