720 or 1080 for a large room ??

[XEagleDriver]

Upgrading a TV in a 20' x 20' family room with the following limitations:
1) Built in cabinet over a fireplace limits screen size to max of 37" diagonal widescreen. (i.e. less than 25" tall with stand)
2) Room has significant ambient lighting which can not be mitigated due to WAF.
3) Viewing distance varies from 12 to 16 feet and covers about 120 degrees side to side.
4) Our primary movie viewing room is separate, this room is for watching sports, general TV. It does have an Oppo 980H for the occassional SD DVD.

Pretty settled on LCD technology, and leaning towards either a Panasonic TC-L37X1 (720P, ~$700) or the Panasonic TC-L37S1 (1080, ~$800) due to good reviews and customer service track record regarding my movie room plasma.

Price differential is only about $100, but would there be any benefit to spending additional cash to jump from a 720 to a 1080 set at these viewing distances/conditions?

Any recommendations on 37" sets I should consider other than the two Pannys listed above?

Thanks in advance,
XEagleDriver

 

[The Dukester]

You will not notice any difference between 720 and 1080 with that screen size and that viewing distance. At 37" you are pretty limited nowadays to LCD anyway. There are one or two plasmas still available but they are hard to find. Check the picture quality at your distance on the units you are looking at in person with the 120 degree viewing angle. LCDs do not typically have a wide viewing angle.

 

[XEagleDriver]

Dukester,

Thanks, that is what I was expecting. Panny claims a 178 degree viewing angle for both sets, not sure how that will translate in real world viewing, but is part of the reason I am leaning toward's them for this application.

FWIW the 720 set these replaced, the TC-LZ85, was reviewed to have very good viewing angle capability.

XEagleDriver

 

[nibhaz]

As Dukester has already stated, with your combination of screen size and viewing distance there would be no discernable difference between the 720 and 1080 display in regards to resolution.

Now if you look closely at the specs of these two models you’ll find that that Panasonic is claiming the 1080p set has a higher contrast ratio, which may lead the 1080p display to having a better overall picture. The difference between the two units is pretty small so the differences in performance may be imperceptible.

Go check them out and view them from the same distance that you plan on using them in your home. Ask the sales person if you or they can get into the setup menus to ensure that they are both configured the same.

 

[MUDSHARK]

My living room is nearly as large and slightly further from the screen and I could not tell a difference in a 50 inch Plasma and hence went the 720P route.

Granted I am not a video person and have older eyes than most of you. Having the audio disease is enough for one person.

 

[XEagleDriver]

Thanks to all for your time and advice.

Sounds like the 720 is the better route for my situation and more cost effective (bonus!).

My local area is a bit limited on brick & mortar retailers; HH Gregg carries the 1080 Panny and BB the 720 set. I will bring a tape measure and one of my SD DVDs and see if they can/will hook up a decent player (the same model if I get lucky).

Won't allow a side-by-side comparison, and the flourescent lighting in both cases will probably be real bad. But at least, I can get a general idea on PQ vs distance, and verify acceptable off-axis viewing using the same material (hopefully).

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks to all for your time and advice.

Sounds like the 720 is the better route for my situation and more cost effective (bonus!).

My local area is a bit limited on brick & mortar retailers; HH Gregg carries the 1080 Panny and BB the 720 set. I will bring a tape measure and one of my SD DVDs and see if they can/will hook up a decent player (the same model if I get lucky).

Won't allow a side-by-side comparison, and the flourescent lighting in both cases will probably be real bad. But at least, I can get a general idea on PQ vs distance, and verify acceptable off-axis viewing using the same material (hopefully).

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

Don't judge your set that way. You will be better off calibrating it with Digital Video Essentials. Remember to get the proper lighting for a LCD screen. You must have the right ambient lighting or the picture will stink.

I suggest you go with a highly reliable brands. Historically IME, Toshiba, Sony, Panasonic all make excellent TV's. While Magnavox, Sharp, RCA, and most knock-offs make less reliable tvs. Usually you get a good one either way. But I would just get a Toshiba, Sony or Panny. Others may be cheaper now, but I've never had a sony die on me. Though that was the days of the CRTs. Maggies had some real duds with the exception of my beloved 13". I cry for you I can't see living with a so many compromises. Do you at least get an Audio Cave?

 

[XEagleDriver]

Don't judge your set that way. You will be better off calibrating it with Digital Video Essentials. Remember to get the proper lighting for a LCD screen. You must have the right ambient lighting or the picture will stink.

Thanks, I have used AVIA II for my plasma and it helped a lot.

I suggest you go with a highly reliable brands. Historically IME, Toshiba, Sony, Panasonic all make excellent TV's. While Magnavox, Sharp, RCA, and most knock-offs make less reliable tvs. Usually you get a good one either way. But I would just get a Toshiba, Sony or Panny. Others may be cheaper now, but I've never had a sony die on me.

Thanks again, I will stick with those three brands.

I cry for you I can't see living with a so many compromises. Do you at least get an Audio Cave?

Fortunately yes, this project is just providing better capability in a secondary family room. This way I can listen to music or watch a flick in my HT/listening room while others view TV. Pictures of the main room are at:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49306&highlight=XEagleDriver&page=2


Cheers,
XEagleDriver

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks, I have used AVIA II for my plasma and it helped a lot.



Thanks again, I will stick with those three brands.



Fortunately yes, this project is just providing better capability in a secondary family room. This way I can listen to music or watch a flick in my HT/listening room while others view TV. Pictures of the main room are at:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49306&highlight=XEagleDriver&page=2


Cheers,
XEagleDriver

Good to know. Then let her have her fun.

 

[XEagleDriver]

Store Visit Results

FWIW: Went to BB and HH Gregg to put eyes on the two Pannys.

Local BB did not carry the 720 Panny, but did have a side-by-side of two other 37" TVs, one a 720 and one a 1080. Not interested in buying the manufacturer (LG), but I was able to confirm that at my viewing distances (10-14'), 1080 provided no discernible improvement.

Local HH Gregg did carry the 1080 Panny and I was able to verify that at large viewing angles (+/- 60 degrees off of perpendicular to the screen) the picture was much better than other manufacturers--the others turned whites to light browns at large viewing angles, Panny stayed white.

XEagleDriver

 

[jostenmeat]

As noted here, LCD is really your only choice at 37" or smaller.

Also noted here is that there is more to it than 720 vs 1080. While 1080 is useless in so many scenarios, the latter models are often recommended for better video processing, contrast, and features.

When helping my brother shop for a plasma earlier this year, I stood far away enough from some displays where I knew 1080 was a moot point. Yet, the video quality differences were pretty easy to discern (as I'm sure you've been seeing recently). Even between the 80u and 800u is it pretty easy, IMO. My brother got the cheaper one.

TBH, I haven't seen many, but I've never yet been impressed with Pana's LCDs. Ok, I'm actually never that impressed with LCDs in general, but the Sony's and Samsung's always looked at least a notch better.

I love Pana product as well is what I'm trying to say, but in this case I would broaden the choice of candidates. Good luck.

 

[bandphan]

Just a note, Mitsus 40" 148 series lcd is exactly 25" with the stand

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/LT40148_specsheet.pdf

 

[The Dukester]

A tip for you if you plan on buying at HH Gregg is to shop around, even online and offer them less than what they are asking. They had a 42" Panny on sale at Christmas (720p) for 799. I offered them 699 for the 1080p and got it for 729. They have different buying programs (incentives, discounts, etc) going on different sets at different times. You never know what kind of deal you can get. They would not budge on the 720p set As long as you offer them a reasonable amount and can show where you can get it at that price they will listen. Might not match it, but then again, might. "Ye have not because ye ask not"
Good luck and enjoy your new display!

 

[XEagleDriver]

Great idea, spurred me to print prices from various online dealers to help get a fair deal!

Thanks,
XEagleDriver

 

[CraigV]

I have a 50” Panasonic plasma that’s 720P and I’ve never felt I was missing anything. I sit about 3 meters away, but even at 2 meters it still looks great.

 

[j_garcia]

I sit 9' from a 720p/1080i 34" display and it looks fine. At 16' it still looks fine, but you will definitely be losing detail at that point, but for casual viewing I don't see it as being a problem. I'd still go 1080p, whether you truly benefit from it now or not unless it was going to save you a LOT of money.

 

[Warpdrv]

Don't be afraid to buy online.....

Cleveland Plasma has a really really solid reputation, and can be verified by hundreds of people on the AVSforum Plasma threads and is a forum sponsor there....

https://clevelandplasma.com/store/plasma_tv_s/panasonic

They have fantastic service, and you will get more for your money from them then at any BB or retail store...

They also sell MACK warranty if you need one, though Panasonics are pretty dang reliable...

 

[rekced]

Upgrading a TV in a 20' x 20' family room with the following limitations:
1) Built in cabinet over a fireplace limits screen size to max of 37" diagonal widescreen. (i.e. less than 25" tall with stand)
2) Room has significant ambient lighting which can not be mitigated due to WAF.
3) Viewing distance varies from 12 to 16 feet and covers about 120 degrees side to side.
4) Our primary movie viewing room is separate, this room is for watching sports, general TV. It does have an Oppo 980H for the occassional SD DVD.

Pretty settled on LCD technology, and leaning towards either a Panasonic TC-L37X1 (720P, ~$700) or the Panasonic TC-L37S1 (1080, ~$800) due to good reviews and customer service track record regarding my movie room plasma.

Price differential is only about $100, but would there be any benefit to spending additional cash to jump from a 720 to a 1080 set at these viewing distances/conditions?

Any recommendations on 37" sets I should consider other than the two Pannys listed above?

Thanks in advance,
XEagleDriver

Your decision to go with Panasonic is good. They are reliable and have better viewing angle than most (all?) brands because they use a different kind of panel (google search "IPS" LCD technology).

The difference between 1080p and 720 is negligible from the distance you're sitting. As I see it, the main reason to purchase a 1080p display would be if you'll use the TV for a different application in the future that would require more pixel detail (eg computer monitor or sitting less than 5' away).

There could be other advantages to the 1080p model that could merit spending the extra $100, such as the electronics, sound quality, appearance, screen finish, inputs, etc. Rest assured that you're not one of those people passing on an excellent 720p TV in favor of a Vizio for the same price only because it's 1080p. Those people need help in life.

 

[j_garcia]

As I see it, the main reason to purchase a 1080p display would be if you'll use the TV for a different application in the future that would require more pixel detail (eg computer monitor or sitting less than 5' away).

Huh? Not sure where you got that but I don't know a single person who sits less than 5' from their display, and the difference between 720p and 1080p at about 10' is quite apparent. At 16' I'd say you would still notice a difference, though the fine detail will obviously be less apparent.

 

[croseiv]

In today's market, I'd go with 1080p. If I were buying, that's what I'd get. It only makes sense now. Eventually 1080p will be suplanted as well. So far I'm quite happy with my 720p set which is nearly 3 years old now as I sit at a distance of 11 feet from the display.

Was over at best buy last week, looking at the latest LCDs. Still prefer plasma, honestly, it's a shame it's going away. 1080 p lost it's definition advantage IMO at 10 ft looking at 50" displays.