Maelstrom-X 18" sub

[Warpdrv]

Sorry I just can't agree on this...

I have run PR and Ported subs side by side with sealed and there is a slight audible difference that the resonating boxes have that a sealed does not...

If designed properly you can lessen that nature of the resonating aspect but you can not eliminate it. It is a not a huge difference but its there... You cannot stop or take away the fact that the port is contributing to the sound of the sub, you can minimize it but not eliminate it...

 

[WmAx]

Sorry I just can't agree on this...

I have run PR and Ported subs side by side with sealed and there is a slight audible difference that the resonating boxes have that a sealed does not...

If designed properly you can lessen that nature of the resonating aspect but you can not eliminate it. It is a not a huge difference but its there... You cannot stop or take away the fact that the port is contributing to the sound of the sub, you can minimize it but not eliminate it...

You do realize, of course, my statement comes from careful randomized blind testing of recorded samples, right?

When EQed to a similar response pattern and compared under randomized/blinded tests, the differences quickly disappear.

I also presume properly acoustically damped systems, which most larger subwoofers(which are usually ported) lack. A cabinet with large dimensions, using only an inch of foam or some polyfill inside is not going to effectively dampen the resonances that can occur with lower mid-range/mid-bass breaches that can occur past the crossover point, nor will these materials even dampen the internal self noise(s) caused mechanically.

-Chris

 

[Matt34]

in my case, i agree with that. my ports make NO noise what so ever.

I think a majority of commercially available subs the ports are not big enough and even some DIY builds I've seen don't seem to have the proper sized port. These Kappa's are the first ported sub I've heard where there is no port noise, not even at ridiculous levels.

 

[just-some-guy]

I think a majority of commercially available subs the ports are not big enough and even some DIY builds I've seen don't seem to have the proper sized port.

These Kappa's are the first ported sub I've heard where there is no port noise, not even at ridiculous levels.

from what i have read, i agree. and the cabinets are not large enough, so i have read.

for the money, size and output. it is a great design.
i am amazed at what doesn't come out of that port.
if that X18" is a lot better = and i like so much, i may try it.

 

[Warpdrv]

You do realize, of course, my statement comes from careful randomized blind testing of recorded samples, right?

-Chris

Honestly, I'm not aware of any of this blind testing you have done, could you please post some links to these test methods and other listeners reviews and opinions....

 

[WmAx]

Honestly, I'm not aware of any of this blind testing you have done, could you please post some links to these test methods and other listeners reviews and opinions....

These are my personally conducted tests. My point is you are using non controlled situations to come to a conclusion, where as I have put into place controls and evaluated these issues in a highly reliable manner.

There is absolutely no reason of which I know that a properly designed ported subwoofer with EQ curve compensation will not sound like a sealed unit. DO keep in mind that most subs seem to lack important features to make this possible in the first place (such as poorly designed port or lack of proper acoustic absorption materials inside).

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

Though theoretically a sealed sub would have a lower rolloff and could eliminate the need for a High pass filter. Giving one a much deeper extension in some cases. This of course is theoretical entirely. I know in practice ported subs can get down to 10hz in the right box.

 

[Matt34]

from what i have read, i agree. and the cabinets are not large enough, so i have read.

for the money, size and output. it is a great design.
i am amazed at what doesn't come out of that port.
if that X18" is a lot better = and i like so much, i may try it.

Agreed and now that I have these Kappa's, I will never buy a commercially available ported sub again.

 

[haraldo]

Though theoretically a sealed sub would have a lower rolloff and could eliminate the need for a High pass filter. Giving one a much deeper extension in some cases. This of course is theoretical entirely. I know in practice ported subs can get down to 10hz in the right box.

Then, how big box do you need for this to happen?

 

[WmAx]

Though theoretically a sealed sub would have a lower rolloff and could eliminate the need for a High pass filter. Giving one a much deeper extension in some cases. This of course is theoretical entirely. I know in practice ported subs can get down to 10hz in the right box.

Not in real world application. That lower extension is so far down(in relative dB) that is is irrelevant in practical application.

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

Not in real world application. That lower extension is so far down(in relative dB) that is is irrelevant in practical application.

-Chris

I think that's part of his argument. He's using theory over practice. Being a scientist instead of an engineer in this case. But hey he's happy. I will most certainly use a ported box when the time comes.

 

[Matt34]

Not in real world application. That lower extension is so far down(in relative dB) that is is irrelevant in practical application.

-Chris

What about using multiple "smaller" sealed subs as opposed to one huge ported sub. Wouldn't that certainly close the gap in output?

 

[lsiberian]

What about using multiple "smaller" sealed subs as opposed to one huge ported sub. Wouldn't that certainly close the gap in output?

Well Matt even 4 subs loaded in the same corner would still only net a 6db gain in sound. My approach is to take the best of both worlds. MBMs for the sealed music portion above 35hz to 50hz. A single ported build for 20 -35hz

This probably isn't practical in your case. But if you want cheap way to do this. A few tagband subs might do the trick for the MBMs. Then build a single ported maelstrom.

 

[fredk]

My approach is to take the best of both worlds. MBMs for the sealed music portion above 35hz to 50hz. A single ported build for 20 -35hz

This probably isn't practical in your case. But if you want cheap way to do this. A few tagband subs might do the trick for the MBMs. Then build a single ported maelstrom.

lsiberian. Do you plan on doing this anytime soon? There are very few people who take this approach so its hard to assess how effective it really is. I personally would love to do this as I have a very small room and not enough space for multiple huge subs.

Unfortunately its all just pipe dreams for me until the economy improves a little. That could be quite a while!

 

[haraldo]

Why don't you go all the way and make Transmission line subwofers, like TLS Guy.... these are huuuuuuuge, and a Maelstrom-X based TL sub will be big.... but probably quite hard to beat....

Well, according to TLS, you need two drivers in each sub to make his tuning work properly

And a good thing, it's impossible to steal, once in place noone is going to be able to move it anywhere

if tuned at 17Hz, they'll probably have useful in-room response down below 12 Hz, yes?

Matt, you have room for these, yes?

 

[Warpdrv]

My approach is to take the best of both worlds. MBMs for the sealed music portion above 35hz to 50hz. A single ported build for 20 -35hz

I don't understand why you are making these mid bass modules....

There are plenty of subs that are capable of 15hz and easily crossed over at up to 150hz with powerful output, the Mal-X's being one of them.

I have run all my Mal-X's up to 120 cross and never had any regrets with the upper bass capabilities, which would make a mid bass module somewhat obsolete IMO.... You can also shape the signal with EQ to increase the mid and upper bass at will if you please...

Why wrestle with all those added crossover points trying to implement 2 different bass modules... It seems to me that your just making it more complicated then it needs to be...

 

[Matt34]

Why don't you go all the way and make Transmission line subwofers, like TLS Guy.... these are huuuuuuuge, and a Maelstrom-X based TL sub will be big.... but probably quite hard to beat....

Well, according to TLS, you need two drivers in each sub to make his tuning work properly

And a good thing, it's impossible to steal, once in place noone is going to be able to move it anywhere

if tuned at 17Hz, they'll probably have useful in-room response down below 12 Hz, yes?

Matt, you have room for these, yes?

For sealed enclosures, yeah. My future home I'll probably only have space for one, hence I may just buy an Epik Dragon 18" and be done with it.

 

[haraldo]

For sealed enclosures, yet. My future home I'll probably only have space for one, hence I may just buy an Epik Dragon 18" and be done with it.

What happened to the kappa Perfects?

 

[Matt34]

What happened to the kappa Perfects?

Still have them but they are for sale....again they are too big for Military housing.

 

[haraldo]

Still have them but they are for sale....again they are too big for Military housing.

How much????

No I shouldn't ask.... shipping cost will be killing.....