Why are room treatment accessories so Expensive!!!

[Bluesmoke]

I love HT! I'm not an elite hardcore guy with a $5000 pre/pro, but I have decent equipment that is above average. I want to treat my room - but I can't! These things are ridiculously expensive to buy.

I can't believe simple pieces of foam just to place in corners command so much money.

 

[lsiberian]

I love HT! I'm not an elite hardcore guy with a $5000 pre/pro, but I have decent equipment that is above average. I want to treat my room - but I can't! These things are ridiculously expensive to buy.

I can't believe simple pieces of foam just to place in corners command so much money.

Not really.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_room_kits.html get kit 1 for 500.

or you can make your own? Are you capable of framing? If so you only need some 2" rockwool Nice fabric and some wood or metal.

Start with a panel on each side at the 1st order reflection.

 

[no. 5]

Not really.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_room_kits.html get kit 1 for 500.

or you can make your own? Are you capable of framing? If so you only need some 2" rockwool Nice fabric and some wood or metal.

Start with a panel on each side at the 1st order reflection.

ATS Acoustics is another place where you can get the parts to make your own treatments for less.

If possible, I recommend picking up this book; it has information that you can use in treating your room as well as to make your own devices.

Depending on the characteristics of you speakers, you may not need absorption at the first reflection points (if you feel it's needed, I recommend using 3"-4" material, as 2" material is less effective below about 500Hz). But in any event, the best thing you probably do to start with is bass trapping.

 

[mike c]

skip the foam treatments and go for DIY rockwool or fiberglass panels.

 

[jostenmeat]

I love HT! I'm not an elite hardcore guy with a $5000 pre/pro, but I have decent equipment that is above average. I want to treat my room - but I can't! These things are ridiculously expensive to buy.

I can't believe simple pieces of foam just to place in corners command so much money.

just like the guys said, forget the foam, will do nothing for bass, or even midbass.

I just clicked on your HT link. My suggestions would be to pull speakers further from front wall, trap for bass in the front right corner, perhaps load the right wall with absorption (since you are most likely dealing with heavier soundstage and reflections on that side from the much closer reinforcing boundary). Finally, as a last suggestion for video, I would maybe try a large $150 Ikea black rug to put on the floor. Will help your video quite a bit. I got two of them, and they were WELL worth the money, IMO. If you hate the idea, or the looks, you can easily roll itout just for a lights-off movie. Would take you 15 seconds.

best of luck.

oh yeah, I first saw these when WmAx recommended them.
http://www.readyacoustics.com/index....acoustic-frame

All I would add is that paint is normally undesired due to the reflective properties. You'll want to use dye if you're going to color them at all.

 

[lsiberian]

ATS Acoustics is another place where you can get the parts to make your own treatments for less.

If possible, I recommend picking up this book; it has information that you can use in treating your room as well as to make your own devices.

Depending on the characteristics of you speakers, you may not need absorption at the first reflection points (if you feel it's needed, I recommend using 3"-4" material, as 2" material is less effective below about 500Hz). But in any event, the best thing you probably do to start with is bass trapping.

I suggest 2" rockwool for it's versatility. You can laminate 2 sheets together to make 4" And use some of it: to improve your speakers.

 

[WmAx]

ATS Acoustics is another place where you can get the parts to make your own treatments for less.

If possible, I recommend picking up this book; it has information that you can use in treating your room as well as to make your own devices.

Depending on the characteristics of you speakers, you may not need absorption at the first reflection points (if you feel it's needed, I recommend using 3"-4" material, as 2" material is less effective below about 500Hz). But in any event, the best thing you probably do to start with is bass trapping.

High density rockwool and fiberglass board at 2" thickness, A mounted(against a solid surface boundary) is effective to almost a 1.0 co-efficient down to about 250Hz, with substantial effect slightly under 200Hz. At 4", this material has almost 1.0 co-efficient down to 125-150 Hz, with substantial effect down to 80Hz.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

just like the guys said, forget the foam, will do nothing for bass, or even midbass.

There does exist foam that has nearly the same co-efficient, inch for inch in thickness as the high density fiberglass and rockwool materials, but this foam is extremely expensive. Auralex is an example of such a quality foam. But most foams, even when called acoustic foam, have very poor performance when compared to high density fiberglass and rockwool, based on my experiences.

-Chris

 

[jostenmeat]

There does exist foam that has nearly the same co-efficient, inch for inch in thickness as the high density fiberglass and rockwool materials, but this foam is extremely expensive. Auralex is an example of such a quality foam. But most foams, even when called acoustic foam, have very poor performance when compared to high density fiberglass and rockwool, based on my experiences.

-Chris

I dare to ask, how much is extremely expensive? When/how would the application of this stuff be beneficial? It is lighter in weight (?)... and therefore ... it's useful in which application?

 

[WmAx]

I dare to ask, how much is extremely expensive? When/how would the application of this stuff be beneficial? It is lighter in weight (?)... and therefore ... it's useful in which application?

High density rockwool is under $1 per square foot, 2" thickness.

High density fiberglass is $2-$3 per square foot, 2" thickness.

Auralex, as purchased in a moderate quantity, is about $4-$5 per square foot, 2" thickness. You can get it somewhat cheaper (but no where near the price of the above materials) in large quantity.

Foam is useful where direct application with no covers or frames is wanted. That is perhaps the only benefit. The foam will dry rot, and thus will not last as long as the fiberglass and rockwool, which will last virtually forever.

The foam will never work as well as the high density fiberglass and rockwool, but the highest quality/premium foams can come somewhat close; much closer than the typical so-called acoustic foams at least.

-Chris

 

[bpape]

703 is available for much less than $2-$3 per sq ft. $69 for 6 pcs of 2" 703 is 48 sq ft so about $1.40 per sq ft. Add in shipping and it might come close to $2 per square foot. Mineral wool is definitely the bang for the buck solution as long as you don't have to cut it. 703 is a bit more but SO MUCH easier to cut and work with. Personally, I'll pay the extra few bucks to save me hours of messing with it and hours of cleaning up all the shedding and clumping from cutting mineral wool. All depends on how you're going to use it.

The GOOD foam is fine down to around 100Hz. If you want to get seriously down into the subwoofer range, you need fiberglass or mineral wool and of a decent thickness (4-6").

As for cost, guess that's a matter of priorities. The money you'll spend on treating a room well will give you much more improvement in sound compared to spending the same amount of money on a better amp, better processor, better cables, etc. Think about it. Buy 3 boxes and assume $30 per box for shipping. $300 will get you a very nice improvment in your sound. Try to get the same by spending $300 on equipment.

I'll take an above average system in a properly laid out, properly treated room over a killer system in a poor room with no treatment any day.

Bryan

 

[nibhaz]

703 is available for much less than $2-$3 per sq ft. $69 for 6 pcs of 2" 703 is 48 sq ft so about $1.40 per sq ft. Add in shipping and it might come close to $2 per square foot. Mineral wool is definitely the bang for the buck solution as long as you don't have to cut it. 703 is a bit more but SO MUCH easier to cut and work with. Personally, I'll pay the extra few bucks to save me hours of messing with it and hours of cleaning up all the shedding and clumping from cutting mineral wool. All depends on how you're going to use it.

High density fiberglass is $2-$3 per square foot, 2" thickness.
-Chris

I still think these quotes are little on the high side. Just two months ago I picked up 12 pcs case of 2in 703 for only $96, which comes out to $1 sq/ft. I physically picked it up at a roofing supply company so there wasn't any shipping cost associated, I might have spent $5 in gas for the trip, so I guess real cost came out $1.05 per sq/ft.

This enough to do 2 8ft SCAs (12x12x17), and 6 2in panels, put a two inch air gap behind your panels and you’ll find you’re off to a good start.
Of course there are other cost in going the DIY path and it does cost you time. But you’ll be hard pressed to beat the value of going this route.

Here is great link to help do rough estimate of various panel configurations and their performance.

Here is the panel construction method I used. Built in air gap and exposes the maximum amount of material to the room.

 

[nibhaz]

Here are some more resources if you go DIY.

Here is a list of absorption coefficients to compare various materials.

This forum and this forum are defiantly worth joining so that you can search the threads. Between these two forums, you will gain enough knowledge to make intelligent and informed decisions concerning your acoustical treatment needs.

 

[Savant]

The foam will dry rot, and thus will not last as long as the fiberglass and rockwool, which will last virtually forever.

Auralex foam will not break down unless it is exposed to direct sunlight for prolonged periods.

 

[lsiberian]

703 is available for much less than $2-$3 per sq ft. $69 for 6 pcs of 2" 703 is 48 sq ft so about $1.40 per sq ft. Add in shipping and it might come close to $2 per square foot. Mineral wool is definitely the bang for the buck solution as long as you don't have to cut it. 703 is a bit more but SO MUCH easier to cut and work with. Personally, I'll pay the extra few bucks to save me hours of messing with it and hours of cleaning up all the shedding and clumping from cutting mineral wool. All depends on how you're going to use it.

The GOOD foam is fine down to around 100Hz. If you want to get seriously down into the subwoofer range, you need fiberglass or mineral wool and of a decent thickness (4-6").

As for cost, guess that's a matter of priorities. The money you'll spend on treating a room well will give you much more improvement in sound compared to spending the same amount of money on a better amp, better processor, better cables, etc. Think about it. Buy 3 boxes and assume $30 per box for shipping. $300 will get you a very nice improvment in your sound. Try to get the same by spending $300 on equipment.

I'll take an above average system in a properly laid out, properly treated room over a killer system in a poor room with no treatment any day.

Bryan

Is Rockwool is hard to cut? I thought fiberglass was the nasty stuff.

 

[bpape]

Fiberglass cuts very nice and with clean edges if you use a sharp knife. Cutting mineral wool is not hard - it's just tough to get good edges and keep it from crumbling. There's nothing wrong with it acoustically - it's just a pain to work with if you have to cut it.

Bryan

 

[nibhaz]

Fiberglass cuts very nice and with clean edges if you use a sharp knife. Cutting mineral wool is not hard - it's just tough to get good edges and keep it from crumbling. There's nothing wrong with it acoustically - it's just a pain to work with if you have to cut it.

Bryan

+1 QFT

Fiberglass yields very clean edges.

 

[pjoseph]

What kind of material will work for covering the rock wool?

I am looking for a material with some kind of design maybe like a tapestry?

will that work?

 

[bpape]

If you don't want to change the absorptive properties (not always the design goal), get something that will pass breathing through relatively easily - and usually something not shiny, especially for HT usage.

Bryan

 

[nibhaz]

Perhaps one of the hardest things in going the DIY route is walking through Jo-Ann fabric discreetly breathing through fabric samples while trying not to look like a freak show!