5.1 system with 4ohm Dynaudio speakers.

[PENG]

Isn't that a telltale sign of quality of amplification?

Everything else being equal/comparable, it is one of the signs but you do have to watch for other contributing factors. Some examples of factors that could affect weight are:

Enclosure & heat sinks - steel vs copper vs aluminum.
Transformers - toroidal ones are typically lighter, especially if alumininum wires are used for the windings.
Amplifier design - class A is heavy, A/B is not as heavy, D is lighter.
Power output design philosophy - some design for ACD output, such as HK who typically use a larger power supply to ensure ACD output maintain almost the same as single channel output. Others such as Yamaha use smaller power supplies (relatively speaking only) but strong amp sections in order to boost single channel output because they believe putting money in where it counts most.

I am sure there are other examples but I will leave that to the audio electronic specialists. Like cars, Volvos are highly regarded for their structural integrity but compare them to a Hyundai of the same size, the Volvo is likely lighter. Back to receivers, Denon & Yamaha (except for their top models), and Arcam are never too heavy but they do have strong amp sections, again relatively speaking.

I did notice the latest Marantz models are not too heavy, but like Arcam, they are renowned for their sound quality and I would love to own one.

 

[gorman]

Ok, I've read the comparative review on the German site that Lordoftherings linked (the one where the RX-V3900 comes out on top of all brands), as well as the other review for the Onkyo NR906.

All things considered, for me the sound quality aspect is still king. On the other hand, I long for headphone surround, room equalization and HDMI switching (I have too many cables behind the cabinet, it's a jungle back there).

The question becomes simple: with the RX-V3900 would I be stepping down compared to my current receiver, on the pure amplification side of things?

If it's about equal or better, I might have found my receiver (with no heat problems). If it's inferior I might consider the Onkyo or the RX-Z7 (and rearrange the cabinet somehow, as headphone surround goes only to a certain level of importance to me), although the Z7 seems kind of overpriced for what it offers.

Thanks for all the patience and help, I really, really appreciate it.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Ok, I've read the comparative review on the German site that Lordoftherings linked (the one where the RX-V3900 comes out on top of all brands), as well as the other review for the Onkyo NR906.

All things considered, for me the sound quality aspect is still king. On the other hand, I long for headphone surround, room equalization and HDMI switching (I have too many cables behind the cabinet, it's a jungle back there).

The question becomes simple: with the RX-V3900 would I be stepping down compared to my current receiver, on the pure amplification side of things?

If it's about equal or better, I might have found my receiver (with no heat problems). If it's inferior I might consider the Onkyo or the RX-Z7 (and rearrange the cabinet somehow, as headphone surround goes only to a certain level of importance to me), although the Z7 seems kind of overpriced for what it offers.

Thanks for all the patience and help, I really, really appreciate it.

So Gorman, do you read German? Or maybe you were able to get the translation?

Anyway the Yamaha RX-V3900 has indeed Dolby headpone, well it's called Silent Cinema, and you can choose various surround programs to suited the movie or music, pretty cool.
The RX-V3900 is a super loaded receiver with all the features inimaginable.
The Gui (OSD) alone is a piece of art.

You talk about weight.
You talk about sound quality.
You were talking previously about your concern on heat issues.

You are a hard to please kind of guy, and you are turning around too...

If you want weight, go with the Onkyo TX-NR906, period!
If you want sound quality, go with the Marantz SR8002, period!
And if you are still concern about heat issues, forget the Onkyo TX-NR906 and also the Yamaha RX-Z7, period!

Weight is relative: the Onkyo TX-NR906 (toroidal transformer) weights 54 lbs, and it delivers tremendous power, even into 4-ohm loads, period.
The Marantz SR-8002 (toroidal transformer) weights 33 lbs, and it delivers a surprising amount of power for it's lighter weight.

Now, did you mentioned that lots of power is important for you?
And did you mentioned that delivery into 4-ohm loads is also important for you?

Anyway, all the receivers that we are talking about here, should drive your Dynaudio Audience speakers just fine.

Also, did you mentioned that you want Dolby headphone?

Also, are you concern about a true upgrade over your actual receiver?
Any of these receivers will be an upgrade, features wise, power wise, tra-la-la...

So, Gorman, what do you really want?

You just said it, the only choice remaining after all considerations well calculated and established by careful analysis of your main priorities, from the ground up to the sky high, is the Yamaha RX-V3900. It is the only one that your very sweet and dear lovely daughter will be able to enjoy because it has "Silent Cinema" from the headphone jack, period!
Also with the RX-V3900, you got the VRS ABT-2010 video processor (excellent), you got the best OSD in the business, you got the most features that's for sure, you got the Yamaha legendary Natural Sound, you got a reasonable amount of power (88 watts per channel, with 7 channels continuously driven into 8-ohm loads with 0.3% THD), you got some current delivery to drive your 4-ohms speakers, you got a warranty from Yamaha, you got 30 days money back if you are not satisfied, you got 190 watts for one channel driven continuously into an 8-ohm load at 0.3% THD, you got roughly 2-dBW gains into 4-ohm loads without complaint in stereo mode, you got so many other things pack jam into that receiver that you might need a pilot course to pass!

BUT!... Me, I don't have my daughter with me. And I love heat from a receiver, because I save money in the winter time. And if I will have all of these Dynaudio speakers of yours, I will want to give them the very best. And my speakers would take priority over my daughter for matching adequately with a receiver. I don't buy an A/V receiver or an amplifier to match with my daughter, period!
If my daughter want to listen to Dolby headphone, I will buy her a nice Yamaha RX-V363 just for her on her birthday.
And for my lovely Dynaudio speaker system, I will buy the Onkyo TX-SR876, or the TX-NR906 (if I feel to Network a bit and feel good about a toroidal transformer).
But smart as I am, I'll stick with the 876.
And you know what Gorman? That is exactly what I truly did few months ago, to give my speakers what I honestly feel what they absolutely deserve, the very best receiver, short of separates, period!

BUT THEN!... I did not personally auditioned the Marantz SR8002. So, I don't really know from first hand what I'm missing. Should I?

I'm kind of an easy type of person when it comes to audio and family; I try to love the ones that I got.

Regards,

Bob

 

[gorman]

AHAHAHAH!!! Bob, you are a pleasure to read, really.

Yes, I know, I'm an hard guy to please. I just wanted to be sure that the 3900 wasn't offering worse amplification section compared to my TX-DS797. If it's on par or better, we might have a winner after all.

 

[Lordoftherings]

AHAHAHAH!!! Bob, you are a pleasure to read, really.

Yes, I know, I'm an hard guy to please. I just wanted to be sure that the 3900 wasn't offering worse amplification section compared to my TX-DS797. If it's on par or better, we might have a winner after all.

Tha'll be the day!

That's about god dam time!

BUT!... Did you consider Separates?

 

[lsiberian]

Ok, I've read the comparative review on the German site that Lordoftherings linked (the one where the RX-V3900 comes out on top of all brands), as well as the other review for the Onkyo NR906.

All things considered, for me the sound quality aspect is still king. On the other hand, I long for headphone surround, room equalization and HDMI switching (I have too many cables behind the cabinet, it's a jungle back there).

The question becomes simple: with the RX-V3900 would I be stepping down compared to my current receiver, on the pure amplification side of things?

If it's about equal or better, I might have found my receiver (with no heat problems). If it's inferior I might consider the Onkyo or the RX-Z7 (and rearrange the cabinet somehow, as headphone surround goes only to a certain level of importance to me), although the Z7 seems kind of overpriced for what it offers.

Thanks for all the patience and help, I really, really appreciate it.

certainly not. Yamaha makes excellent receivers. The only thing you would miss is Auddysey. Which I would love to have again.

Ultimately your decision comes down to price and features. List the features you want most in order and then pick the one in your price range that hits most of em. Don't worry about the amp sections. There is little difference between receiver amps. In double blind testing no one could tell the difference between a 300 and a 1000 dollar amp. Of course there are differences in features, stability, and aesthetics that make the 700 dollars worth it, but I say this to point out that equally priced reputable receivers will sound very similar in most cases.

 

[lsiberian]

So Gorman, do you read German? Or maybe you were able to get the translation?

Anyway the Yamaha RX-V3900 has indeed Dolby headpone, well it's called Silent Cinema, and you can choose various surround programs to suited the movie or music, pretty cool.
The RX-V3900 is a super loaded receiver with all the features inimaginable.
The Gui (OSD) alone is a piece of art.

You talk about weight.
You talk about sound quality.
You were talking previously about your concern on heat issues.

You are a hard to please kind of guy, and you are turning around too...

If you want weight, go with the Onkyo TX-NR906, period!
If you want sound quality, go with the Marantz SR8002, period!
And if you are still concern about heat issues, forget the Onkyo TX-NR906 and also the Yamaha RX-Z7, period!

Weight is relative: the Onkyo TX-NR906 (toroidal transformer) weights 54 lbs, and it delivers tremendous power, even into 4-ohm loads, period.
The Marantz SR-8002 (toroidal transformer) weights 33 lbs, and it delivers a surprising amount of power for it's lighter weight.

Now, did you mentioned that lots of power is important for you?
And did you mentioned that delivery into 4-ohm loads is also important for you?

Anyway, all the receivers that we are talking about here, should drive your Dynaudio Audience speakers just fine.

Also, did you mentioned that you want Dolby headphone?

Also, are you concern about a true upgrade over your actual receiver?
Any of these receivers will be an upgrade, features wise, power wise, tra-la-la...

So, Gorman, what do you really want?

You just said it, the only choice remaining after all considerations well calculated and established by careful analysis of your main priorities, from the ground up to the sky high, is the Yamaha RX-V3900. It is the only one that your very sweet and dear lovely daughter will be able to enjoy because it has "Silent Cinema" from the headphone jack, period!
Also with the RX-V3900, you got the VRS ABT-2010 video processor (excellent), you got the best OSD in the business, you got the most features that's for sure, you got the Yamaha legendary Natural Sound, you got a reasonable amount of power (88 watts per channel, with 7 channels continuously driven into 8-ohm loads with 0.3% THD), you got some current delivery to drive your 4-ohms speakers, you got a warranty from Yamaha, you got 30 days money back if you are not satisfied, you got 190 watts for one channel driven continuously into an 8-ohm load at 0.3% THD, you got roughly 2-dBW gains into 4-ohm loads without complaint in stereo mode, you got so many other things pack jam into that receiver that you might need a pilot course to pass!

BUT!... Me, I don't have my daughter with me. And I love heat from a receiver, because I save money in the winter time. And if I will have all of these Dynaudio speakers of yours, I will want to give them the very best. And my speakers would take priority over my daughter for matching adequately with a receiver. I don't buy an A/V receiver or an amplifier to match with my daughter, period!
If my daughter want to listen to Dolby headphone, I will buy her a nice Yamaha RX-V363 just for her on her birthday.
And for my lovely Dynaudio speaker system, I will buy the Onkyo TX-SR876, or the TX-NR906 (if I feel to Network a bit and feel good about a toroidal transformer).
But smart as I am, I'll stick with the 876.
And you know what Gorman? That is exactly what I truly did few months ago, to give my speakers what I honestly feel what they absolutely deserve, the very best receiver, short of separates, period!

BUT THEN!... I did not personally auditioned the Marantz SR8002. So, I don't really know from first hand what I'm missing. Should I?

I'm kind of an easy type of person when it comes to audio and family; I try to love the ones that I got.

Regards,

Bob

Bob you can always do better. That's the beauty of this hobby there is never a limit to upgrades. And when you do I'll be glad to store the 876 for you free of charge.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Isiberian, the first prioritary feature for Gorman, is Dolby headphone, so he can please his lovely daughter.
Forget about Audyssey MultEQ XT and THX Ultra2 Plus and HQV Reon, and Dynamic EQ and Volume and weight and heat and all that superficial stuff.

Love and happyness of his daughter is the most desirable feature right now for Gorman.
And that my friend, is invaluable, period!











SO!... I guess the Yammy 3900 here he comes!

 

[Lordoftherings]

Bob you can always do better. That's the beauty of this hobby there is never a limit to upgrades. And when you do I'll be glad to store the 876 for you free of charge.

LOL. Good one.

 

[gorman]

Bob the devil!!! Now you are even playing with me... damn... I've been eyeing the Onkyo and dreaming about what all the good and ample current could do for my speakers for the past two weeks.
Then I translated the German review and see they place the Yamaha on top... I might be hard to please, but these are tough decisions to take, you have to admit.

In any case, tomorrow is a good day, my Pioneer Kuro 60" is coming home. Video is gonna be sorted first.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Bob the devil!!! Now you are even playing with me... damn... I've been eyeing the Onkyo and dreaming about what all the good and ample current could do for my speakers for the past two weeks.
Then I translated the German review and see they place the Yamaha on top... I might be hard to please, but these are tough decisions to take, you have to admit.

In any case, tomorrow is a good day, my Pioneer Kuro 60" is coming home. Video is gonna be sorted first.

Well, to match your Pioneer Elite Kuro, you might want to consider the Pioneer Elite SC-07. It's on sale right now for only $900.

 

[gorman]

AHHAHAHA!!! No, thank you, tempting devil.

Pioneer has no headphone surround, has been reported by Gene as having some problems driving 4ohms speakers, does not excel at video and from what I read has inferior room equalization when compared to Audissey MultiEQxt.

 

[gorman]

Stumbled upon this: http://bluetin.com/catalog/product_info.html?currency=GBP&jvc-victor-su-dh1-surround-sound-portable-headphone-amplifier_html=&cPath=&products_id=120&osCsid=3eef3911b33cc146e35970827b0184da

This would effectively enable Dolby Headphone for whatever receiver I might choose, making the Onkyo a plausible choice.

Interesting...

 

[Lordoftherings]

Stumbled upon this: http://bluetin.com/catalog/product_info.html?currency=GBP&jvc-victor-su-dh1-surround-sound-portable-headphone-amplifier_html=&cPath=&products_id=120&osCsid=3eef3911b33cc146e35970827b0184da

This would effectively enable Dolby Headphone for whatever receiver I might choose, making the Onkyo a plausible choice.

Interesting...

So, Gorman, tell me. That big deal about surround sound from the headphone, it's for you?

That thing that you just show me in your link, you can find other brands too for cheaper. Also you can add one of these for very cheap from the used market.

So, stop fooling yourself and others too, and get that 906, it is honestly the very best of that bunch, period! And I mean it! And you know that I do.

Don't let that German review from DVD AREA get the best of you, these are just kids fooling around, they are easily impressed by gadgets and all that pizzaz.

Get your infos from the pros.

Bob

P.S. Reread post #43 very carefully, all your answers are in that post.

 

[gorman]

So, Gorman, tell me. That big deal about surround sound from the headphone, it's for you?

That thing that you just show me in your link, you can find other brands too for cheaper. Also you can add one of these for very cheap from the used market.

If you have links for different brands/models I'd be very happy to consider them. Honest. I mentioned why it is important. But all this talk has had me kind of reevaluating my priorities.

Reread post #43 very carefully, all your answers are in that post.

I hope you'll believe me when I tell you I read all of your posts with a lot of attention. I would be a fool not to pay attention to somebody so helpful and knowledgeable.
And yes, in the back of my mind I have this nagging thought that the NR-906 really could be the best chance to make my Dynaudios sing.

 

[Lordoftherings]

If you have links for different brands/models I'd be very happy to consider them. Honest. I mentioned why it is important. But all this talk has had me kind of reevaluating my priorities.I hope you'll believe me when I tell you I read all of your posts with a lot of attention. I would be a fool not to pay attention to somebody so helpful and knowledgeable.
And yes, in the back of my mind I have this nagging thought that the NR-906 really could be the best chance to make my Dynaudios sing.

Ok, out of my head, no, I don't have any links, but you know me, when I put my heart into it, I can find anything, so as you.

So, I think that this part will be your duty, you already start, just keep going.
You know the password, just Google it. After all, it's one of your feature, not mine.
And like I said, a big receiver like the 906, listening with headphones in my quite big room, no thank you very much, not my cup of tea. I guess you miss the last researchs on the subject of headphones. And if I really want to listen with headphones, I will get a...actually no, because the 906 headphone amp is probably the best one of all these receivers. I know for a fact, because it used a deluxe treatment: discrete class AB output stage following a NE5532 (dual op-amp) for the lowest impedance headphones, which results to a very low distorsion. Why for god sake would I want to screw that you some digital DSP processing?

Yep, the 906 for sure. But I really thought that the headphone thing was for your daughter. You got me going here for a while...

It's good that you are revisiting your priorities, that's how we appreciate life from the true values.
And thank you for your kind words, makes me feel appreciated.

Regards,

Bob

Note: Similar to yours: http://av.jvc.com/product.jsp?pathId=2&modelId=MODL027291&page=1

And about a forum dedicated to this: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/

 

[audiofox]

This posting is a bit late, but I wanted to mention that I am using a Denon AVR-3806 with a Dynaudio Audience setup (82s in front, a C120 center channel and 2 42s for the surrounds) THis setup has no sub, and I am running all 5 speakers in "large" mode, so they see (and use) more overall power than they would if there were a sub in the signal path. I recently had the speakers driven via an Adcom GFA 7500 and decided to try out the Denon driving the speakers directly. What I have heard so far is very promising, although I have yet to really wring out the setup at high volume to see if I run into any problems at the top end of the power curve. I've got a couple of my personal test disks I'll be using to test the setup (on a day off when the wife is at work!), and they should tell me if this amp-less approach will work or not. More to follow.