Cost and benefits of a custom sub

[calnbs]

It's time for new subwoofer. I won't be able to go a DIY. I just simply do not have the knowledge or know how.

If I head that direction on custom made subwoofer, I'm going to have to pay someone to build it for me. With that said, am I better off just buying a subwoofer from eD, HSU, or SVS if I need to pay someone to custom make one for me? Wouldn't paying someone to build one pretty much eliminate any cash I would be saving vs buying one from the above companies?

I currently own a MFW15 and I would definately like it to sound better than the MFW15 on my next subwoofer. My budget is around $1k. Maybe a little more but it must justify the cost.

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

 

[annunaki]

It's time for new subwoofer. I won't be able to go a DIY. I just simply do not have the knowledge or know how.

If I head that direction on custom made subwoofer, I'm going to have to pay someone to build it for me. With that said, am I better off just buying a subwoofer from eD, HSU, or SVS if I need to pay someone to custom make one for me? Wouldn't paying someone to build one pretty much eliminate any cash I would be saving vs buying one from the above companies?

I currently own a MFW15 and I would definately like it to sound better than the MFW15 on my next subwoofer. My budget is around $1k. Maybe a little more but it must justify the cost.

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

Paying someone to build a sub accomplishes a number of things:

1. Higher quality construction techniques and sometimes materials.

2. Proper design of enclosure & typically deleting marketing compromises within the design.

3. Higher quality driver units and amplification/eq.

4. The finish of your choice

Check out the build thread in my signature (build thread 1). That was done for a fellow Audioholics member and was well under $1k, yet it will match up with or exceed pre-made subs in the $1k-$1.5k range. It was doing 101.5db at 20hz in a ground plane measurement with just 300 watts rms.

Warpdrv has some great drivers he is looking to move so that could be a start?

What general region are you in? Shipping is the only thing that could negate the benefit of a custom made unit.

 

[calnbs]

I live in Sacramento, CA area. I am currently looking in my area to see if I can find anyone who have experience building custom subwoofer. Found a few car subwoofer custom makers but I don't know how well their skills will translate over to the home theater side. I'm still waiting for their responses.

Without any knowledge or a step by step instruction, I'm going to have someone pretty much build it for me. I'm just debating if its worth the hassle or will I even really save any money when its all said and done.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

If black is ok you could always just buy a pre built cabinet from partsexpress.com then just coose your drive and amp and any modifications to stiffen the box a little...What do you think annunaki???

I believe Chris (WmAx) recommends a "low" price DIY using one of their cabinets.

 

[Warpdrv]

Get a couple really nice and powerful 15" drivers, there are alot of really nice ones out there that are availble for pretty reasonable, and make an enclosure with both drivers opposed sealed.... Just like the Seaton Submersive.

You can use less power and get more output, dual opposing drivers virtually eliminate box vibrations. And, of course, it won't employ a resonator (no port or passive radiators) or protection filters....



That is going to be my next build

 

[lsiberian]

It's time for new subwoofer. I won't be able to go a DIY. I just simply do not have the knowledge or know how.

If I head that direction on custom made subwoofer, I'm going to have to pay someone to build it for me. With that said, am I better off just buying a subwoofer from eD, HSU, or SVS if I need to pay someone to custom make one for me? Wouldn't paying someone to build one pretty much eliminate any cash I would be saving vs buying one from the above companies?

I currently own a MFW15 and I would definately like it to sound better than the MFW15 on my next subwoofer. My budget is around $1k. Maybe a little more but it must justify the cost.

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

Lack of knowledge isn't really a good reason. IMO. I knew absolutely nothing just 2 or 3 months ago. I'm building MBMs and have built speakers. Subs are probably the simplest thing to build.

Laziness is a good reason and I think if you can afford to pay someone else to build one then go for it. I suggest you look at the Kappa build. It's a proven design with lots of satisfied builders here. The driver is cheap and you can simply hand the box to a few cabinet makers. Or even your car audio friends get them to build it. Then you only need to cloth wrap some rockwool
and glue it in there. Make sure you get a hole for the binding post in the back. Not in the port. You can glue the binding posts to the back of the box.

For the amp get an EP2500. Get a Reckhorn for your high pass filter. And you got a great deal.

 

[Warpdrv]

I'm not so sure that a move from an MFW15 to a Kappa build is an upgrade here...

I can appreciate your thoughts on DIY, but moving from a 15 to a 12 to me is not an upgrade here....

Are you looking for an upgrade in SQ here or are you looking for an upgrade in output...?

 

[annunaki]

A couple of Maelstroms opposing each other in a 7.0ft^3 cabinet would be mightily impressive.

What do you say about that Warp? Give a couple of yours a go there!

 

[calnbs]

I'm not so sure that a move from an MFW15 to a Kappa build is an upgrade here...

I can appreciate your thoughts on DIY, but moving from a 15 to a 12 to me is not an upgrade here....

Are you looking for an upgrade in SQ here or are you looking for an upgrade in output...?

For the money I paid for the MFW15 ($500), I feel it was good but it still seem to lack something that I want. I enjoy the MFW15 much more for HT use than music. It seems not to get the kind of bass I want, especially for rap. It seems like the bass is not enough or punch hard enough. Increasing the gain doesn't do it because it changes the quality of the sound.

I keep hearing about the "Punch in the chest" with MFW15....I'm going to have to say, I haven't experience too much of that. Very few actually. I think location and untreated room might play a big factor in it as well. I want to feel the explosion, the punch. I need those to sound clean, loud, and feeling it...not just hearing it.

I guess I want more "punch and clean sound" from my subwoofer. I thought about getting room treatment (but haven't yet). I thought about adding another MFW15 but I am not sure if it'll actually satisfied my needs..not sure adding another by just doubling the quantity which lacks the quality I want in a subwoofer would improve the situation. Secondly, the MFW15 amps failing just scares me away from adding another one. For a $500 subwoofer, it does alot for the money but comes up a little short for me.

Been reading that the SVS PB13 Ultra and that it might do the trick but it cost 3 times what I paid for the MFW15, with that said...the bar for my expectation would even be higher than I had for the MFW15 since it cost 3 times as much.

 

[yeahman68]

what are your room dimensions?

 

[annunaki]

For the money I paid for the MFW15 ($500), I feel it was good but it still seem to lack something that I want. I enjoy the MFW15 much more for HT use than music. It seems not to get the kind of bass I want, especially for rap. It seems like the bass is not enough or punch hard enough. Increasing the gain doesn't do it because it changes the quality of the sound.

I keep hearing about the "Punch in the chest" with MFW15....I'm going to have to say, I haven't experience too much of that. Very few actually. I think location and untreated room might play a big factor in it as well. I want to feel the explosion, the punch. I need those to sound clean, loud, and feeling it...not just hearing it.

I guess I want more "punch and clean sound" from my subwoofer. I thought about getting room treatment (but haven't yet). I thought about adding another MFW15 but I am not sure if it'll actually satisfied my needs..not sure adding another by just doubling the quantity which lacks the quality I want in a subwoofer would improve the situation. Secondly, the MFW15 amps failing just scares me away from adding another one. For a $500 subwoofer, it does alot for the money but comes up a little short for me.

Been reading that the SVS PB13 Ultra and that it might do the trick but it cost 3 times what I paid for the MFW15, with that said...the bar for my expectation would even be higher than I had for the MFW15 since it cost 3 times as much.

This helps a lot. What kind of mains, center, & surrounds are you running? What is the F3 (-3db point) of those speakers and what size drivers are in them?

Have you run a sweep at your listening position to see what your room response is there? Have you played around different positions within the room to see if you can achieve what you are after?

I would definitely suggest room treatments BEFORE you upgrade your sub now at this point. This removes one more variable from the situation, and a big one, the room!

Punch in the chest feeling is typically response from 60hz-200hz, although, depending upon the music used, very low response seems to help reinforce this effect as well.

 

[Warpdrv]

A couple of Maelstroms opposing each other in a 7.0ft^3 cabinet would be mightily impressive.

What do you say about that Warp? Give a couple of yours a go there!

I'd have to put the numbers through WinISD, but right now, my boxes are already at @ 6'^3, so I would think it would like a bit bigger box, but yeah that would be pretty impressive....

I was running the Mal-X's off of QSC 2502's and EP2500's and kept clipping before getting the output I needed/wanted, I have since upgraded to 4 - Crest 8002 amps, 1 for each sub, with the TC3000 filling in the back of the room, These put out 4000w at 4ohms... I am no longer having an issue with clipping and the ouput is super scary.... very nice indeed...

The next gen Mal-X's are slated to be coming out soon which will have some changes to Dual 2ohm coils and kevin added another 5mm of suspension travel, increasing the maximum output capability, those should be some amazing drivers to be certain....

 

[lsiberian]

I'm not so sure that a move from an MFW15 to a Kappa build is an upgrade here...

I can appreciate your thoughts on DIY, but moving from a 15 to a 12 to me is not an upgrade here....

Are you looking for an upgrade in SQ here or are you looking for an upgrade in output...?

I believe it would be, but one would have to compare them in room. If he used the JL Audio 12w7 in the same box or an AXIS 12" then it would certainly be an upgrade.

That being said I do like the thoughts of going 15" here. The maelstrom is probably the best deal on a 15" I've seen as far as versatility. But it's out of stock so you will need to wait for the driver. Exodus Audio already has the suggested dimensions for the sub and some succesful builds can be found at the Shack. The AVS forums has some designs as well. If I had the funds I would go for the Maelstroms. I just love that sub.

 

[just-some-guy]

Get a couple really nice and powerful 15" drivers, there are alot of really nice ones out there that are availble for pretty reasonable, and make an enclosure with both drivers opposed sealed.... Just like the Seaton Submersive.

You can use less power and get more output, dual opposing drivers virtually eliminate box vibrations. And, of course, it won't employ a resonator (no port or passive radiators) or protection filters....



That is going to be my next build

you must have been impressed at the CAVE meet. that was/is a nice sub. do you know what it cost ?

 

[Matt34]

I believe it would be, but one would have to compare them in room. If he used the JL Audio 12w7 in the same box or an AXIS 12" then it would certainly be an upgrade.

That being said I do like the thoughts of going 15" here. The maelstrom is probably the best deal on a 15" I've seen as far as versatility. But it's out of stock so you will need to wait for the driver. Exodus Audio already has the suggested dimensions for the sub and some succesful builds can be found at the Shack. The AVS forums has some designs as well. If I had the funds I would go for the Maelstroms. I just love that sub.

Mal-X is an 18"

annunaki must be reading my mine because I was thinking along the exact same lines. Dual opposed Mal-x, kinda like a bigger version of the Submersive.

 

[Matt34]

2x Malestrom-x @ $395ea
1x Behringer EP2500 @ $300
1x custom enclosure, lets say $300

Get a Behringer DEQ 2496 @ $199 off of Musician's Friend scratch and dent.

Ok, way over budget but that would be a hell of a sub.

 

[lsiberian]

Mal-X is an 18"

annunaki must be reading my mine because I was thinking along the exact same lines. Dual opposed Mal-x, kinda like a bigger version of the Submersive.

Oh yeah lol. I always forget that.

 

[Warpdrv]

you must have been impressed at the CAVE meet. that was/is a nice sub. do you know what it cost ?

Yeah, the submersive was an extremely impressive sub to be sure....

They are $2K each.....

I would have no qualms about having a pair of them in my great room, it may be enough output, but I'd have to try them out first to be positive....

I have a little problem with never having enough output in my great room.

 

[WmAx]

I have a little problem with never having enough output in my great room.

Why not just go all the way, take out a loan, and install 12 x 18" subs with 36kw of amp power? Maybe that would finally satisfy you?????

-Chris

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Why would he take out a loan? He make 5 billion bucks a year and he is single.

Why not just go all the way, take out a loan, and install 12 x 18" subs with 36kw of amp power? Maybe that would finally satisfy you?????

-Chris