Bypassing my Crossover to go Active ?

[Mika75]

Yep, just as the title says I'm wanting to temporarily bypass my current speakers passive crossover so I can go active.

They are bi-wired by design so the rear plate is bi-amp ready so to speak.

Now can I get away with a small length of wire by shorting the current x-over to go direct to the drivers? ..that way if I'm unhappy with the results, or one day even sell the speakers I can easily bring them back to how they once were ?

I would prefer that path to totally removing the Crossover and re-soldering direct.

Also should I be keeping a single Capacitor in the Tweeters signal path for safety reasons (something I learn't from WmAx)

 

[TLS Guy]

Yep, just as the title says I'm wanting to temporarily bypass my current speakers passive crossover so I can go active.

They are bi-wired by design so the rear plate is bi-amp ready so to speak.

Now can I get away with a small length of wire by shorting the current x-over to go direct to the drivers? ..that way if I'm unhappy with the results, or one day even sell the speakers I can easily bring them back to how they once were ?

I would prefer that path to totally removing the Crossover and re-soldering direct.

Also should I be keeping a single Capacitor in the Tweeters signal path for safety reasons (something I learn't from WmAx)

No you will have to remove or disconnect the crossover. You need an amp for each speaker, unless your speakers are MTM, in which case you can use one amp for each for the two midwoofers. If your speakers are three or two and a half way you will need three amps.

You should put a cap in series with the tweeter, but it needs to be around 50 mfd, so you are not cascading filters.

Your crossover will need to exactly replace the electrical orders and slopes of the your current passive crossovers, and also include any notch filters to notch out cone break up modes.

If any of the above is not accomplished, then you will have worse results. This is quite a difficult problem to engineer, bit if you have the skill to do it, you will get better results.

You need to understand the acoustic properties of you current drivers, and the electrical properties of your current crossovers intimately, to achieve any worthwhile results.

 

[Mika75]

Thanks TLS

I have the amps for both High & Mid ....its a 2 way MTM design, Seas Mids, Focal Inverted Domes (see my avatar)

So can u tell me why is it necessary to totally remove the cross over and not just short the signal path across it ??

As far as replacing the slopes exactly as they are now... I'm guessing i can get it better with the DCX .....but as far as notch filters I would be lost..

My reason for trying active is I'm curios to hear the benefits of Bi-amping.

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks TLS

I have the amps for both High & Mid ....its a 2 way MTM design, Seas Mids, Focal Inverted Domes (see my avatar)

So can u tell me why is it necessary to totally remove the cross over and not just short the signal path across it ??

As far as replacing the slopes exactly as they are now... I'm guessing i can get it better with the DCX .....but as far as notch filters I would be lost..

My reason for trying active is I'm curios to hear the benefits of Bi-amping.

I can tell you.

The crossover is already built on the circuits. You would need to remove it before going active. This is easy to do with a soldering wick and a soldering iron. You can also use wire cutters which is even easier.

You will probably want to remove the crossover from the box if possible. But it may be glued in there. If it is then just leave it.

Then you would simply connect the tweeter to the top binding post and the mid range woofers to the bottom one. You can wire the woofers in serial or parallel.

The fact your asking this suggest you might want to get a better understand for how stuff works in a speaker. I suggest you read around on crossovers and take apart your speaker to see how they work.

Going active is fun to try, but I do suggest you keep the passive one.

Don't worry if you screw up. This is a hobby not serious.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks TLS

I have the amps for both High & Mid ....its a 2 way MTM design, Seas Mids, Focal Inverted Domes (see my avatar)

So can u tell me why is it necessary to totally remove the cross over and not just short the signal path across it ??

As far as replacing the slopes exactly as they are now... I'm guessing i can get it better with the DCX .....but as far as notch filters I would be lost..

My reason for trying active is I'm curios to hear the benefits of Bi-amping.

You will have to totally disconnect the crossover, otherwise there will be caps shunting the woofers and inductors and resistors shunting the tweeter. In other words over half the crossover components will still be in circuit and active.

Here is an MTM crossover circuit so you can see what I mean.

So you see, if you just jumped the crossover, only C1 and L1 would be bypassed, the rest would still be in circuit. You must disconnect the crossovers at both ends input and the speaker connections.

 

[Swerd]

So can u tell me why is it necessary to totally remove the cross over and not just short the signal path across it ??

As far as replacing the slopes exactly as they are now... I'm guessing i can get it better with the DCX .....but as far as notch filters I would be lost..

My reason for trying active is I'm curious to hear the benefits of Bi-amping.

You don't have to physically remove the passive crossover, but you do have to disconnect the speakers from the crossover boards. Label the wires so you can reconnect things as they originally were.

Then directly connect the tweeter and midwoofers to their appropriate terminals on the back of the cabinet. For the tweeter, be sure to wire that capacitor in series between the + cabinet terminal and the tweeter + terminal.

TLS also made an important point that I don't hear often enough. People here reflexively say that bi-amping is always better with active crossovers. What they fail to say, or perhaps fail to understand, is that new crossovers - active or passive - will only sound better if there is something wrong with their original crossovers and if they understand how they might improve it.

Stumbling around with an active crossover, such as a Behringer DEQ2496, and hoping to get lucky is unlikely to produce good results.

 

[Mika75]

You will have to totally disconnect the crossover, otherwise there will be caps shunting the woofers and inductors and resistors shunting the tweeter. In other words over half the crossover components will still be in circuit and active.

TLS...looking back at it again I see exactly how this would still be in circuit.

Thanks anyways ...sorta has dulled my enthusiasm somewhat now lol

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS...looking back at it again I see exactly how this would still be in circuit.

Thanks anyways ...sorta has dulled my enthusiasm somewhat now lol

I have said often, it is usually harder to modify an existing speaker than starting from scratch. If you really want to have biamped or triamped speakers, then build them from the ground up. There are modeling programs for designing and building electronic crossovers. There really are no short cuts.

 

[Mika75]

I wouldn't actually be building the crossover, I would have used the DCX to do all the filtering.

 

[highfigh]

TLS...looking back at it again I see exactly how this would still be in circuit.

Thanks anyways ...sorta has dulled my enthusiasm somewhat now lol

Active crossovers are often used when the alternative is a simple 12dB/Octave passive design. Using an active to replace a passive that has impedance compensation, notch filters and other tweaks will not work well. PA systems use an active crossover largely to eliminate the insertion loss from passive components, since those systems are used to cover a large area, often at high SPL, which calls for high power. Losing 3dB-6dB to insertion necessitates more powerful amps, costing much more. Since the listening environment isn't usually as balanced as some homes and small clubs, the fine points of a really good speaker system are lost, so perfection isn't even a consideration.

As TLS posted- if active filters are going to be used, designing it from ground up is the way to go.

 

[haraldo]

If you have a DCX or a DEQ and good measuring capabilities and can take speakers outside to measure them in free space (with no room influende), wouldn't there be quite good changes to get pretty good results?

 

[Mika75]

If you have a DCX or a DEQ and good measuring capabilities and can take speakers outside to measure them in free space (with no room influence), wouldn't there be quite good changes to get pretty good results?

exactly !

 

[haraldo]

I thought about doing sth simular with my Meadowlark Kestrel2's. They have a very simple crossover and perhaps make a circuit so that I can easily switch between active and passive... to better realize what's the improvements by going fully active.... I think this is very interesting thoughts indeed....

I think you should go forward with this

Where in Australia are you from?
I lived two years in Adelaide, and have many friends there.....
I also have "Genuinely made Down Under" speakers

 

[Mika75]

I think you should go forward with this

I soo want to but I'm getting mixed replies.. after your's look's like my interest is back again lol

I'm in Country Victoria .....& I just noticed u have Duntech

 

[haraldo]

I soo want to but I'm getting mixed replies.. after your's look's like my interest is back again lol

I'm in Country Victoria .....& I just noticed u have Duntech

Aha, close to Melbourne?
And yes, I absolutely loooooove the Duntech's they're never going out of the house.....

 

[haraldo]

Aha, close to Melbourne?
And yes, I absolutely loooooove the Duntech's they're never going out of the house.....

I have a friend living in Adelaide who's a former sound engineer, he's helped me a lot with ideas & things and he was the one that strongly suggested me to buy a Benchmark DAC1, something I never regretted since.

He retrofitteed some M&K passive pro speakers with a Behringer DEQ 2496 active crossover and switched the tweeter to a raven ribbon system. Results are stunning and speakers in another league. I believe it's the Raven ribbons that make much of this big change, but anyways, I really believe this is the way to go. Nopt so easy, lots of hard word but I believe this is worthwhile.....

 

[Mika75]

I'm thinking without the measuring gear, and the knowledge how to actually use it, X-Over removal and going direct could end up alot worse than what i have now (they currently sound damn good by the way)

 

[haraldo]

I'm thinking without the measuring gear, and the knowledge how to actually use it, X-Over removal and going direct could end up alot worse than what i have now (they currently sound damn good by the way)

Yes, you are probably very correct on this

 

[Mika75]

She it ain't pretty, but this is whats filtering them at the moment

 

[haraldo]

Who says it has to be pretty, as long as it sounds well
If you can figure out the circutiry and component values, I'm sure somebody here may help you to find a starting point foir the active x-over