New speakers - slightly damaged tweeter dome

[RoadHazard]

This is a non issue. Your speaker is fine. It is just as good as the other one, and this incident will not shorten its life. You need to find something else to obsess about and move on. Put on the grill and forget it!

Yeah, I'm sure you're right. That's just me I guess; I like to obsess over minor things!

I actually managet to take a picture that kind of shows one of the small damages:

The highlighted part of the picture shows the "edge" on the dome. It's really longer than it looks here (it goes from one side of the dome to the other), but because of the transparent material the only way to see it is by having light reflect off it like in this picture. So, making all of it show up is very difficult.

There's also a smaller dent (going inwards) right in the middle of the dome, but I can't "catch" that with my camera.

I also noticed that the spunge-thingy (half a sphere of soft material) that is placed behind/underneath the dome is slightly off-center on this speaker. Here's a crappy pic of that:

It's not by much, but still. Could this affect the sound?

I guess I'll just try to not think about it, and instead enjoy the speakers (which are obviously not top-of-the-line anyway, but compared to my previous old pair of front speakers (Jamo Studio 180 - not that great) they sound very nice).

Now the remaining question is if my old Sony receiver (an STR-DB940) will manage to drive these speakers for an extended period of time without killing itself. The speakers are rated at 6 Ohms, and the receiver has a 4-8 Ohm switch, but I really want to leave it at 8 Ohms (since switching to 4 Ohms will give the speakers less juice). I guess I'll just have to check that the receiver doesn't get too hot. Or maybe I should just get a new one.
I've heard that Denon receivers work well with Jamo speakers? I have a pair of Denon in-ears (AH-C551), and I love those, so I definitely trust in Denon products.

 

[lsiberian]

Yeah, I'm sure you're right. That's just me I guess; I like to obsess over minor things!

I actually managet to take a picture that kind of shows one of the small damages:

The highlighted part of the picture shows the "edge" on the dome. It's really longer than it looks here (it goes from one side of the dome to the other), but because of the transparent material the only way to see it is by having light reflect off it like in this picture. So, making all of it show up is very difficult.

There's also a smaller dent (going inwards) right in the middle of the dome, but I can't "catch" that with my camera.

I also noticed that the spunge-thingy (half a sphere of soft material) that is placed behind/underneath the dome is slightly off-center on this speaker. Here's a crappy pic of that:

It's not by much, but still. Could this affect the sound?

I guess I'll just try to not think about it, and instead enjoy the speakers (which are obviously not top-of-the-line anyway, but compared to my previous old pair of front speakers (Jamo Studio 180 - not that great) they sound very nice).

Now the remaining question is if my old Sony receiver (an STR-DB940) will manage to drive these speakers for an extended period of time without killing itself. The speakers are rated at 6 Ohms, and the receiver has a 4-8 Ohm switch, but I really want to leave it at 8 Ohms (since switching to 4 Ohms will give the speakers less juice). I guess I'll just have to check that the receiver doesn't get too hot. Or maybe I should just get a new one.
I've heard that Denon receivers work well with Jamo speakers? I have a pair of Denon in-ears (AH-C551), and I love those, so I definitely trust in Denon products.

Move on. You will never hear a difference.

 

[TjMV3]

I have to completely agree with TLS Guy and lsiberian. This is nothing.

Get over it and move on. Your tweeter is absolutely fine.

Hell, my tweeters were way more noticable than that. Until I used the vacuume method. Then they were perfect.

Neither I and anyone who has ever been here listening to my speakers, has heard anything even remotely out of whack or wrong with the high frequencies. They sound beautiful.

You're worrying about nothing.

 

[RoadHazard]

I have to completely agree with TLS Guy and lsiberian. This is nothing.

Get over it and move on. Your tweeter is absolutely fine.

Hell, my tweeters were way more noticable than that. Until I used the vacuume method. Then they were perfect.

Neither I and anyone who has ever been here listening to my speakers, has heard anything even remotely out of whack or wrong with the high frequencies. They sound beautiful.

You're worrying about nothing.

Yeah, I probably am.
But what about that off-center half-sphere spunge thing under/behind the dome? I'm not even sure what it does, to be honest. Is it just supposed to protect the voice coil of the tweeter, or does it actually contribute to the sound?

 

[wilmeland]

Yeah, I probably am.
But what about that off-center half-sphere spunge thing under/behind the dome? I'm not even sure what it does, to be honest. Is it just supposed to protect the voice coil of the tweeter, or does it actually contribute to the sound?

Actually, thats the flux capacitor. As long as it isin't misaligned by more than .00347 %, chances are good the space/time continuum will be maintained and the sounds will be sweet.

 

[RoadHazard]

Actually, thats the flux capacitor. As long as it isin't misaligned by more than .00347 %, chances are good the space/time continuum will be maintained and the sounds will be sweet.

Well, I'll just cross my fingers and hope that my apartment doesn't suddenly fall through a rift in the continuum and stop existing then! It would be really annoying to get home only to find an empty hole where my apartment should be.

 

[cerwinmad]

wellll

I HATE to go against the other more expert members here but if i got a new product that was damaged in any way id get a replacement. I, like you, could not stand to know it was like that and would listen for any sound difference constantly. im just like that!! its like buying a new car with a dent that popped out but left a crack in the paint- wont affect performance but it just shouldnt be like that!!

 

[TLS Guy]

I HATE to go against the other more expert members here but if i got a new product that was damaged in any way id get a replacement. I, like you, could not stand to know it was like that and would listen for any sound difference constantly. im just like that!! its like buying a new car with a dent that popped out but left a crack in the paint- wont affect performance but it just shouldnt be like that!!

The problem is that if he returns them for a fault that is not audible, when he gets his return, he may have something to really worry about, like a smashed corner of a cabinet.

His problem is not going to be audible. There are serious problems in all speakers that are far more serious than that. The vast majority of speakers that are out there, won't even reproduce anything approaching a square wave. Any fourth order filters turn a square wave into a sine wave.

Any amplifier that had distortion figures, of even a tenth of most speakers, would be rejected out of hand and become a standing joke.

His minor blemish, which won't be audible, pales beside the gross errors his speakers do have.

 

[RoadHazard]

I HATE to go against the other more expert members here but if i got a new product that was damaged in any way id get a replacement. I, like you, could not stand to know it was like that and would listen for any sound difference constantly. im just like that!! its like buying a new car with a dent that popped out but left a crack in the paint- wont affect performance but it just shouldnt be like that!!

Yeah, that's how I usually react to things like this. Now, however, I'm starting to think that it'd be more trouble than it's worth to get the speakers replaced. The calming words from people who know more about speakers than me ease my mind as well. The speakers sound great, and I'm sure I won't care about the tiny imperfections in a few months. It's always like that when I get something new; in the beginning I take extremely good care of it, but after a while it becomes less and less important.

I'm not going to accept paying full price (albeit with a student discount of around 500 Swedish kronor / about $64 USD) for a flawed product, though. I've given the online shop all the info I can, and I'm waiting to hear what they're going to do about it. If they want to replace the entire speaker system - fine. They'll have to take care of the shipping for me, so it won't be too much work for me. If they'd rather give me a partial refund or a discount on other products I guess I'd be fine with that as well. But no, I'm not going to accept paying full price for something that's not in perfect condition.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah, that's how I usually react to things like this. Now, however, I'm starting to think that it'd be more trouble than it's worth to get the speakers replaced. The calming words from people who know more about speakers than me ease my mind as well. The speakers sound great, and I'm sure I won't care about the tiny imperfections in a few months. It's always like that when I get something new; in the beginning I take extremely good care of it, but after a while it becomes less and less important.

I'm not going to accept paying full price (albeit with a student discount of around 500 Swedish kronor / about $64 USD) for a flawed product, though. I've given the online shop all the info I can, and I'm waiting to hear what they're going to do about it. If they want to replace the entire speaker system - fine. They'll have to take care of the shipping for me, so it won't be too much work for me. If they'd rather give me a partial refund or a discount on other products I guess I'd be fine with that as well. But no, I'm not going to accept paying full price for something that's not in perfect condition.

Now you are talking my language!

 

[RoadHazard]

Okay, an update:

The online shop has decided to offer me a 500 SEK ( ~ $64 USD) refund, which is just about what I was hoping for, so I'll probably accept that.

I have another small issue though:
When running my receiver's test signal (pink noise centered at 800 Hz) through the setup the center speaker sounds "muffled" compared to the front speakers. Maybe "muffled" is not really the right word though, but the high frequencies in the signal don't seem as clear in the center speaker. It just seems like it is producing a lower pitched sound overall, even though all the speakers are being fed the exact same pink noise (which I have confirmed by switching the speaker outputs). Now, I understand that all speakers don't sound the same, but these do have the same kind of drivers after all. Could this have something to do with the fact that the midrange drivers in the front speakers are 5", while the ones in the center speaker are 4"? It seems to me like a smaller cone would have an easier time reproducing higher pitched sounds rather than lower pitched, but here it seems to be working the other way around. They all have the same 1" tweeter.
So, why does my center speaker sound like it's playing a lower pitched noise than my front speakers? Are center speakers wired/filtered differently internally (since they are mainly used for reproducing dialogue), and could this be the explaination for this?

Yeah, I know I'm probably just nitpicking again, but that's just what I do.

 

[TLS Guy]

Okay, an update:

The online shop has decided to offer me a 500 SEK ( ~ $64 USD) refund, which is just about what I was hoping for, so I'll probably accept that.

I have another small issue though:
When running my receiver's test signal (pink noise centered at 800 Hz) through the setup the center speaker sounds "muffled" compared to the front speakers. Maybe "muffled" is not really the right word though, but the high frequencies in the signal don't seem as clear in the center speaker. It just seems like it is producing a lower pitched sound overall, even though all the speakers are being fed the exact same pink noise (which I have confirmed by switching the speaker outputs). Now, I understand that all speakers don't sound the same, but these do have the same kind of drivers after all. Could this have something to do with the fact that the midrange drivers in the front speakers are 5", while the ones in the center speaker are 4"? It seems to me like a smaller cone would have an easier time reproducing higher pitched sounds rather than lower pitched, but here it seems to be working the other way around. They all have the same 1" tweeter.
So, why does my center speaker sound like it's playing a lower pitched noise than my front speakers? Are center speakers wired/filtered differently internally (since they are mainly used for reproducing dialogue), and could this be the explaination for this?

Yeah, I know I'm probably just nitpicking again, but that's just what I do.

I think there are a number of reasons for your problem.

The center has a sensitivity of 87 db while the mains have a sensitivity of 89 db, so you center needs a larger amplitude signal to match.

The second issue is that the center, like most, is MTM on its side, which is an absurdity. The lobing pattern causes the dispersion pattern to be in the horizontal rather than the vertical plane. This is a probably a big factor. Try turning the speaker 90 degrees so it is vertical and level match, and see what happens.

The drivers are different diameters, and therefore are different drivers and will have a different frequency response. The speakers therefore should, and likely have, different crossovers. They must be different to a degree, as the center is a two way, but they probably have a different crossover point between mid/woofer and tweeter.

At the price point of that speaker system, you have to accept a lot of warts, and the speakers may not be well matched.

A speaker system 100 times costlier than that one, will have a few warts also, hopefully not as many, and as obvious, but it still won't be perfect, far from it.

 

[RoadHazard]

I think there are a number of reasons for your problem.

The center has a sensitivity of 87 db while the mains have a sensitivity of 89 db, so you center needs a larger amplitude signal to match.

The second issue is that the center, like most, is MTM on its side, which is an absurdity. The lobing pattern causes the dispersion pattern to be in the horizontal rather than the vertical plane. This is a probably a big factor. Try turning the speaker 90 degrees so it is vertical and level match, and see what happens.

The drivers are different diameters, and therefore are different drivers and will have a different frequency response. The speakers therefore should, and likely have, different crossovers. They must be different to a degree, as the center is a two way, but they probably have a different crossover point between mid/woofer and tweeter.

At the price point of that speaker system, you have to accept a lot of warts, and the speakers may not be well matched.

A speaker system 100 times costlier than that one, will have a few warts also, hopefully not as many, and as obvious, but it still won't be perfect, far from it.

Thanks, you're very helpful!

I am of course aware that this speaker system isn't exactly audiophile grade stuff, and I don't expect it to be perfectly matched or anything. I just want to make sure that there are no serious flaws which could make it sound worse than it should. I do think it provides excellent value for someone like me (a student with limited monetary resources), though. To me it sounds a lot better than many other speakers at the same price point, and I'm definitely pleased with how it performes in my small apartment.

Yeah, I know that the horizontal MTM arrangement is an issue with most center speakers. I guess they do it like that because a vertical arrangement would seriously limit the placement possibilities? For most people the most natural placement is probably below the TV, and how do you do that with a vertically arranged MTM speaker?

Another thing:

My receiver has seperate bass crossover settings for the front, center and rear channels. The possible settings range from 60Hz to 180hz, in 30hz steps (so that's 60-90-120-150-180Hz). Now, I've set the front speakers to "Large" (they'll have to take care of most of the bass until I get a subwoofer), so they're obviously not affected by this. The others, however, I've set to "Small", so they need some bass management.
The rears are rated at 80 - 20,000Hz, and the center at 75 - 20,000Hz. Now, I'm guessing they wouldn't produce much audible sound at 80Hz, but would I still be correct in setting the crossover frequency for all of them to 90Hz? Maybe that's really a little low (since I've read that you should ideally set the crossover to 10Hz above what the speaker can clearly reproduce), but 120Hz seems a bit high.

 

[browninggold]

I would push it in again

then take the picture

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks, you're very helpful!

I am of course aware that this speaker system isn't exactly audiophile grade stuff, and I don't expect it to be perfectly matched or anything. I just want to make sure that there are no serious flaws which could make it sound worse than it should. I do think it provides excellent value for someone like me (a student with limited monetary resources), though. To me it sounds a lot better than many other speakers at the same price point, and I'm definitely pleased with how it performes in my small apartment.

Yeah, I know that the horizontal MTM arrangement is an issue with most center speakers. I guess they do it like that because a vertical arrangement would seriously limit the placement possibilities? For most people the most natural placement is probably below the TV, and how do you do that with a vertically arranged MTM speaker?

Another thing:

My receiver has seperate bass crossover settings for the front, center and rear channels. The possible settings range from 60Hz to 180hz, in 30hz steps (so that's 60-90-120-150-180Hz). Now, I've set the front speakers to "Large" (they'll have to take care of most of the bass until I get a subwoofer), so they're obviously not affected by this. The others, however, I've set to "Small", so they need some bass management.
The rears are rated at 80 - 20,000Hz, and the center at 75 - 20,000Hz. Now, I'm guessing they wouldn't produce much audible sound at 80Hz, but would I still be correct in setting the crossover frequency for all of them to 90Hz? Maybe that's really a little low (since I've read that you should ideally set the crossover to 10Hz above what the speaker can clearly reproduce), but 120Hz seems a bit high.

If you don't have a subwoofer, I would set all your speakers to large. Just be careful to not play at excessive volume.

Those frequency numbers will be the 3 db points, and the speakers will roll off 24 db per octave of they are ported, which your center is. I don't know about your surrounds. If they are sealed they will roll off 12 db per octave.

So you will get some bass out of all of them.

The MTM on its side is a problem. The solutions are relatively costly. The other problem with any spaced drivers for center channel is that the crossovers ideally should be out of the speech discrimination band.

So good options, are the use of a good coaxial driver, with good power handling capability, expensive. A three way with the woofers to the side and the tweeter above the mid, with crossover points 350 to 400 Hz area and 3.5 to 4 kHz area. Midrange drivers with those characteristics and decent power handling are expensive and few.

 

[lsiberian]

If you don't have a subwoofer, I would set all your speakers to large. Just be careful to not play at excessive volume.

Those frequency numbers will be the 3 db points, and the speakers will roll off 24 db per octave of they are ported, which your center is. I don't know about your surrounds. If they are sealed they will roll off 12 db per octave.

So you will get some bass out of all of them.

The MTM on its side is a problem. The solutions are relatively costly. The other problem with any spaced drivers for center channel is that the crossovers ideally should be out of the speech discrimination band.

So good options, are the use of a good coaxial driver, with good power handling capability, expensive. A three way with the woofers to the side and the tweeter above the mid, with crossover points 350 to 400 Hz area and 3.5 to 4 kHz area. Midrange drivers with those characteristics and decent power handling are expensive and few.

To give you some commercial examples of this in the lower price range. The Infinity Beta 360(tweeter above midrange) and the KEF iQ2 (Coaxial).

 

[RoadHazard]

I would push it in again then take the picture

Haha, yeah, I'm not gonna do that...

If you don't have a subwoofer, I would set all your speakers to large. Just be careful to not play at excessive volume.

Really? Won't I be losing a lot of bass below the 80-90Hz point if I do that? Those low frequency sounds would just not be heard anywhere, instead of being sent to the front speakers like they are with the center and rears set to "Small". Why should I send bass information to speakers that can't handle it anyway? Now, the 8" woofers in the fronts may not be a good substitute for a subwoofer, but at least they should do much a better job at delivering the bass than the 4" drivers in the center and rear speakers.

Those frequency numbers will be the 3 db points, and the speakers will roll off 24 db per octave of they are ported, which your center is. I don't know about your surrounds. If they are sealed they will roll off 12 db per octave.

The rear speakers are ported, just like the center.

 

[RoadHazard]

The second issue is that the center, like most, is MTM on its side, which is an absurdity. The lobing pattern causes the dispersion pattern to be in the horizontal rather than the vertical plane. This is a probably a big factor. Try turning the speaker 90 degrees so it is vertical and level match, and see what happens.

I just tried this, and when listening to the center speaker close up with the tweeter at ear height it sounds more or less exactly like the rear speakers. This of course makes sense, since they have the exact same drivers (4" midrange, 1" tweeter) - the only difference is that the center has one extra midrange driver. Seems like nothing is wrong then!
They (center + rears) still don't produce the very same "tone" of pink noise as the fronts, but I guess they can't be expected to be perfectly matched in a cheap system like this.

When I leave the center below the TV the sound of it really changes, which I guess is mainly because the tweeter is not at ear level. I don't know how I could possibly accomplish that, though. Put it on a shelf above the TV? Well, that would put it too far up. Maybe I could put something under the front of the speaker so that it's slanted upwards (to make the tweeter at least point in the general direction of my ears).

 

[lsiberian]

Maybe I could put something under the front of the speaker so that it's slanted upwards (to make the tweeter at least point in the general direction of my ears).

You got the idea.

However the greatest reason for sound differences i've found is due to the resonances of what the center sits' on. a TV rack will sound different than a pair of stands.

 

[RoadHazard]

You got the idea.

However the greatest reason for sound differences i've found is due to the resonances of what the center sits' on. a TV rack will sound different than a pair of stands.

Yeah, of course, that'll make a significant difference. I guess it's pretty much impossible to get a surround system to sound completely even and balanced unless you have a dedicated home theater room and want to spend a lot of money.