Upgrading Projector: Optoma HD65 or Epson Cinema 720

mpompey

mpompey

Senior Audioholic
I'm going to be upgrading my workhorse Optoma H30 in the next couple of months. I'm looking at a good 720p projector to replace it with. I've read the paper specs for both projectors and I'm having a hard time deciding which to get.

What do you guys think? Is there anybody here in Philly that has either of these projectors that would be up for a in person demo. If so, PM me.

Thanks.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I'm going to be upgrading my workhorse Optoma H30 in the next couple of months. I'm looking at a good 720p projector to replace it with. I've read the paper specs for both projectors and I'm having a hard time deciding which to get.

What do you guys think? Is there anybody here in Philly that has either of these projectors that would be up for a in person demo. If so, PM me.

Thanks.
Get the HD 65 unless you need placement flexibility. It take 1080 input and downconverts it to 720p for you.
 
mpompey

mpompey

Senior Audioholic
Don't both projectors do that? Is it better to have the projector convert or have the Blu-ray player do the conversion?
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Don't both projectors do that? Is it better to have the projector convert or have the Blu-ray player do the conversion?
Hello mpompey. My guess would be the BDP, but there's only one way to find out, and I honestly wouldn't know.

I don't see a BDP in your equipment sig. . . You have a very nice audio setup that must've cost a pretty penny, to support your movie experience. This is why I would like to encourage you to save up for a 1080p projector, especially if you have a bluray player. JMO.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
I personally like Epson projectors for three reasons. I prefer 3LCD technology, the replacement bulbs are <$200, and I've had two projectors and they've been rock solid. I currently have the Powerlite W6 and it hasn't let me down. I feed it a 1080p signal. I got it cheap too as MS was running their Cashback deal of like 35% :)
 
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mpompey

mpompey

Senior Audioholic
I haven't decided with BDP to get. First I was gung-ho for the Sony BDP-S550. I like the 7.1 analog outs. My original intention was to run the audio straight from the BR player into the receiver, to let me get more life out of the 1500.

However my receiver won't do any bass mgt with the audio passed through its inputs. In that case I would have to depend on the BR player doing the sound mgt, and I'd rather have a receiver do that. So now I'm looking at the RX-v1800 or RX-v863. I'm leaning more toward the 1800 right now. So if I upgrade the receiver, I don't need a BRplayer with analog outs, I'll send everything along the HDMI path.

My current setup is an 84" DIY screen that I sit about 10.5 away from. From everything I've read, I won't see much difference between 1080p and 720p to justify the price right now. My screen size is currently constrained by the size of my front wall. I should post some updated pics, so folks can see what I'm working with.

But that's my thinking right now. And as others in life have pointed out, it's hasn't always been right.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Hello mpompey. My guess would be the BDP, but there's only one way to find out, and I honestly wouldn't know.

I don't see a BDP in your equipment sig. . . You have a very nice audio setup that must've cost a pretty penny, to support your movie experience. This is why I would like to encourage you to save up for a 1080p projector, especially if you have a bluray player. JMO.
This is the post you should listen to. Save your money.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I'd save up for the Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500UB

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=63080840&infoType=Ratings

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_Home_Cinema_6500_UB.htm

I personally have the version of that projector, the 7500UB, on order right now to replace my 720P Optoma H78DC3. I will NEVER buy a DLP projector again. I've had nothing but problems with the Yamaha and now the Optoma.
Both are bad examples of DLP projectors man. But I agree. Save for the Epson.
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
Both are bad examples of DLP projectors man. But I agree. Save for the Epson.
At the time both projectors had rave reviews and recomendations. Both projectors had the main Texas Instruments DLP driver board die. So I wouldn't say it's the brands as much as the technology.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I haven't decided with BDP to get. First I was gung-ho for the Sony BDP-S550. I like the 7.1 analog outs. My original intention was to run the audio straight from the BR player into the receiver, to let me get more life out of the 1500.
I almost always recommend Panasonic for stand alone players. For reasons that range from FW support, PQ delivery, implementation of things one should* take for granted (recoding of mch PCM into DD/DTS for spdif users, or ability to have redundant/simultaneous audio outputs), etc. Even the Panasonic from two models/iterations ago performs better than the 550.

However my receiver won't do any bass mgt with the audio passed through its inputs. In that case I would have to depend on the BR player doing the sound mgt, and I'd rather have a receiver do that. So now I'm looking at the RX-v1800 or RX-v863. I'm leaning more toward the 1800 right now. So if I upgrade the receiver, I don't need a BRplayer with analog outs, I'll send everything along the HDMI path.
I know little about the 1800, but I would get it over the 863, if only because of the latter's modest amp section. Then again, I *know* it's good enough for 95% of the folks out there, but if you saw my HT, then you'd know I'm probably part of that other 5%.

Question:

You have a 5.1 or 7.1 setup? mch analogs means you can't ever matrix lossless codecs.

Are you using an outboard amp? if so, then of course you won't care much about the receiver's amp.

My current setup is an 84" DIY screen that I sit about 10.5 away from. From everything I've read, I won't see much difference between 1080p and 720p to justify the price right now.
Incorrect. You are perhaps exactly at the point of enjoying the complete benefit of 1080p, assuming 20/20 vision. (Also, your present viewing angle is 32.4 degrees, which is right in between the SMPTE rec of 30 and THX rec of 36).



But that's my thinking right now. And as others in life have pointed out, it's hasn't always been right.
And how can this be? For he is the Kwisatz Haderach!
 
mpompey

mpompey

Senior Audioholic
Josten, thanks for the reply. I had made up my mind by the end of the day to go with the Epson 1080 model. Unfortunately I wasn't able to grab the one that was on sale for $900. It sold before I got home. Oh well, maybe next time.

I appreciate the time and energy you spent in your response. I'm definitely convinced now. Thank you for the seating chart. I'm going to forward it to a friend of mine who is in the same boat.

I'm currently running a 7.1 setup but with the extra speakers using the presence outputs up front versus the rear speakers. I like the Yamaha DSP using the presence speakers. I know some folks don't like it, but I do. It really opens up the sound field and adds height to the experience.

I'll take a look at the Panasonic. Does Panasonic make a multi-disc Blu-ray player? What would be a comparable machine as the 550?
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Let's go over a few things.

1. If your projector currently works, then continue to use it until you aren't looking at a mid-level upgrade, but the serious upgrade. Simple as that. I'm a big fan of people getting into front projection for the first time and getting a 720p projector because it fits their budget.

But, you HAVE a front projector, and the 100% jump in resolution is nice, but won't compare with the 400% jump you should be realistically looking at.

2. The reason you get that jump is because you want Blu-ray. Blu-ray and front projection are the dream team of HD right now. I have a 540p projector (Panasonic) and I feed it Blu-ray and it looks great.

But, I've also fed my PS3 to a Panasonic AX200U and it looks a fair bit better, but my wife walked in and was floored when she saw Blu-ray playing across a 1080p projector in our family room. (none of those projectors were mine unfortunately)

The bottom line is that my testing at home convinced me that a mid-level 720p upgrade is a complete waste of whatever money you put into it and it is far better to keep an eye out for sales and take advantage of one of several 1080p models that come down the line.

Also: For Blu-ray, think Panasonic and Oppo Digital. Panasonic has the most patents in the Blu-ray technology and their hardware has typically been considered ahead of the pack for major manufacturers - which is consistent with their most recent BD players. The BD60 for HDMI only output, the BD80 for HDMI + 7.1 analog.

Really, it is a fair bit more cash to go 1080p, but when you KNOW that 720p isn't truly what you want and you do already have acceptable front projection, to change would be a waste of $1,000 - and half the money needed to get a decent entry level 1080p model.

Wait - save - do some more homework.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Josten, thanks for the reply. I had made up my mind by the end of the day to go with the Epson 1080 model. Unfortunately I wasn't able to grab the one that was on sale for $900. It sold before I got home. Oh well, maybe next time.

I appreciate the time and energy you spent in your response. I'm definitely convinced now. Thank you for the seating chart. I'm going to forward it to a friend of mine who is in the same boat.
You are most welcome. I would encourage you to carefully consider anything BMX says about the FP world. TBH, I myself was curious about the exact model you were thinking of buying. So that we may better help you in the future, always list the actual model for now on.

I have every reason to believe that once you put in the BDP and good midlevel PJ, you will be completely floored. I think the sweetspot in PJ value as NIB, no sale, is around $2.5k. There WILL be sales, open box (like mine, only 3hrs, fully warrantied), or refurbs as the recent deal BMX told us about on the W5000 for $1.5k (of which he correctly predicted would sell out quickly).

Then again, everyone has their reasons. Perhaps you need a new bulb, and you're thinking that those incurred costs could go towards a new PJ. Perhaps you look to upgrade often, say every 2 years, but just do it step by step, rather than 400%. If you ask me though, I also vote for 400%. :eek::D:D

I'm currently running a 7.1 setup but with the extra speakers using the presence outputs up front versus the rear speakers. I like the Yamaha DSP using the presence speakers. I know some folks don't like it, but I do. It really opens up the sound field and adds height to the experience.
I believe you. FWIW, Onkyo just released their new entry receiver with Dolby plIIz, and the higher end models should come down the pipeline. Yamaha of course has been doing this for longer, but just wanted you to be aware.

I'll take a look at the Panasonic. Does Panasonic make a multi-disc Blu-ray player? What would be a comparable machine as the 550?
The BD80. But as BMX may have noted for you, you don't need the 80 or 550 if you have HDMI receiver. The 80 = 60, and the 550 = 350. The difference is simply the mch analogs between most brands like these (once in a while something else, but never important in my eyes). I've been advocating the twice-superceded Pana's over the 350/550, let alone the last iteration, let alone the present iteration of the 60/80. If getting the new receiver, get the BD60 for $258, or if you got nearly double that you could get an Oppo for the SACD/DVDA + ABT upconversion. Like I said before, even the twice-superceded Pana's performed better; only player to pass all HQV tests in the 6 player shootout I linked in the bdp subforum. The 350/550 did not. The Sony also cannot recode mch PCM into DD/DTS for spdif users, even if the particular BDs that leave you with only 2.0 will be rare indeed. You will also not be able to simply select spdif vs HDMI audio for instance, without being forced to go into the menu. The one thing that Sony has over the Panasonic is a prettier faceplate.
 
mpompey

mpompey

Senior Audioholic
BMX and Josten, thanks again for the info. I've decided to go with the 1080p Epson projector. The Panasonic BDP sounds good.

Here's my upgrade path now:
1. Epson 6500 1080p - This should let me enjoy current upconverting DVD player that is being wasted upstairs in my living room with a CRT. The upconverter only sends out the upconverted via HDMI which is why I haven't brought it downstairs yet. This projector would let me start enjoying my current library now. I've have an Xbox 360 where I stream HD content from my media server (via TVersity) so I can start enjoying those as well.

2. Panasonic BDP-60K With the Blu-Ray player, now I've got full 1080p picture, audio will still go out DD/DTS via optical. The sound in my room is pretty good now. I can wait a couple of more months until I upgrade the receiver with the...

3. Yamaha RX-V1800 - By the time I get here, my entire signal chain will be HDMI, and I'll have access to full uncompressed audio tracks of the Blu-ray discs. I won't need an HDMI switcher as the new receiver can handle the multiple HDMI inputs from Blu-Ray player, upconverting DVD, as well as the Xbox 360.

Sounds like a good plan to me. What do you guys think?
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
Excellent choices. :cool:

I guarantee you'll love the picture on the Epson 6500UB. I fell in love with the picture on the 7500UB last year at the AH Show. It's the same projector as the 6500UB with a few pro features.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Excellent choices. :cool:
+1

AFAIK, that unit is probably the sweetspot value in the $2k-3k range.

Here's my upgrade path now:
1. Epson 6500 1080p
:)

2. Panasonic BDP-60K With the Blu-Ray player, now I've got full 1080p picture, audio will still go out DD/DTS via optical. The sound in my room is pretty good now. I can wait a couple of more months until I upgrade the receiver with the...
AFAIK, IMO, this IS the best value at anything less than an Oppo. I also used optical for a few months before upgrading prepro/receiver.

3. Yamaha RX-V1800 - By the time I get here, my entire signal chain will be HDMI, and I'll have access to full uncompressed audio tracks of the Blu-ray discs. I won't need an HDMI switcher as the new receiver can handle the multiple HDMI inputs from Blu-Ray player, upconverting DVD, as well as the Xbox 360.
Like I said, don't know it well. The only thing that I personally will offer is that I am a fanboy of Audyssey tech for HT. To get that with presence/height channels, you will only have Onkyo as a choice, and even for that you will have to wait a bit. Some people don't like Audysey at all, but IMO it might be the most value laden feature in a midlevel receiver today.

The other brand that offers the highest consumer version is Denon. NAD does as well, but I'm not going to recommend that to you now, even if I own a mch NAD amp. Marantz is the fourth company to offer their tech, but they don't offer the highest consumer version in the XT. Again, only Onkyo will give you both Aud and height channels.

Sounds like a good plan to me. What do you guys think?
A very good plan. You're pretty much hitting THE sweetspot values IMO. I think of Monoprice for cables, URC for universal remotes, and yes I think of Epson for PJs and Panasonic for BDP. :cool::cool:

Father... father, the sleeper has awakened!
 
mpompey

mpompey

Senior Audioholic
Father... father, the sleeper has awakened!

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration..."

I was going to go BlueJeans for the HDMI cable. I checked out their 25' cable in the HDMI cable shootout and it look like it fared pretty well. I've got a good run from my gear rack to where my projector sits. I'll be ordering the additional wall plate and couplers and begin wiring things up next week. I've got a remote that I love, URC Aeros. I even programmed it do run the AC/Heat downstairs.
 
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S

Sherardp

Audioholic
Bluejeans cables are excellent I run two of the Belden Series 2 cables to my PJ. Though you didnt buy a JVC projector I agree you made excellent choices with gear selection. I'm kidding ya with the JVC stuff ;) Enjoy as you will have a very nice picture.
 
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