Dayton Audio BR-1 Mod

Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
So I have the BR-1's

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/300-640.pdf

and I am aware of this

http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=pe_br1.html

but am unable to make the schematics jive, at least on first glance. Following the construction workbook and plopping the supplied equipment into the circuit board seems easy enough. The Murphy replacement pieces go where? (Scratches head)

I'll look at it more later. I'm hoping that it's way simple and that I am missing the obvious.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
Hey Alex

I was just thinking about your kit last week and forgot to ask about it.

It looks like only three of the original parts are used in the update.
And the stock list is different for the shielded and un-shielded versions.

Let me look at this a little more...
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
I do have the unshielded version.
If this is more than your basic part swap on the circuit board they provide ... I'm really in over my head.
 
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Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
Did you already buy the new parts?
His update calls for $50 in new parts, and only uses three of the original.

I'm wondering if the update is worth complicating, and possibly discouraging your learning experience?
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
I didn't buy the parts. For me the worst part is doing the computer work to order all that stuff. I have to order a mic stand and some other things from PE and am having trouble deciding what all to get. I'm looking at this like a shot at taking these speakers to the next level for not much money. I saw Swerd link that Murphy guy's site and Swerd is another one of those no nonsense audio guys.
 
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Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
If you haven't already, ask over at PE. They might know all about this and what you'd need to do it, or even know of something that they think is a better option.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
I didn't buy the parts. For me the worst part is doing the computer work to order all that stuff. I have to order a mic stand and some other things from PE and am having trouble deciding what all to get. I'm looking at this like a shot at taking these speakers to the next level for not much money. I saw Swerd link that Murphy guy's site and Swerd is another one of those no nonsense audio guys ... unlike the people participating in the political threads. :eek: :D :p
Ouch!:D

FWIW, if it were me, I'd put the together and see what you think, with regards to how they sound.
That way you get to do your first build, with clear directions, and a nice learning experience.

Then later, if you think they need more, you can do the upgrade.
That way you'll have some soldering experience already under your belt.
Just a thought.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I thought you already had a Primus set? Why not just do Chris's Mods to em. You could use particle board in place of the concrete. :) The primus drivers are amazing and only limited by the box.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Hey Alex - I just read this thread. I was actually working this morning :(.

Have you assembled the original kits crossover board yet? If not, don't do it yet.

If I understand it correctly, Murphy's redesigned crossover was not meant to go on the original board supplied by PE. I think it would be easier to build it on a piece of thin plywood or masonite. I'll have to study the two crossover schematics while I having lunch to be sure about that.

I can guess your next questions. What size boards? And, how do I layout the parts? If you've never built a crossover before, and want help, I'll be glad to help out.

Let me get some lunch and I'll get back to you as soon as I know more.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Let me get some lunch and I'll get back to you as soon as I know more.
Okay, but slow down. Chew your food. :)
I haven't done anything yet and I'm in no hurry.
You sound more excited than me. :D

Thanks btw. :)
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Okay, but slow down. Chew your food. :)
I haven't done anything yet and I'm in no hurry.
You sound more excited than me. :D

Thanks btw. :)
If I sound excited, its because the DIY corner has been pretty dull for some time.

I guess I've gotten tired of reading threads where some guy wants a subwoofer big enough to make his neighbor jealous, make all the dogs in his apartment complex bark, start local earthquakes, remove his girlfriend's underwear, or prove his otherwise questionable manhood :D.

Building a crossover board is easier than you think. You may even like the results.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
You are going to pull (de-solder) the parts off the PE X-Over and use some 1/4" masonite board to construct these.

The diagram is straight forward. If you want You can send me parts for one X-over. I can document assembly and then ship back. You can do the other.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Alex

You can’t use the boards and most of the crossover parts that came with the kit.

You’ll need this stuff:
  • Soldering iron – pencil type – at least 25 watts
  • Electrical solder with rosin core (don’t use acid core solder, that’s for plumbers)
  • Cable ties roughly 8” long
  • Closed end crimp caps – Parts Express #095-340 and #095-330
  • PE Connector wire (PE #100-074 red and 100-072 black) or any 18 or 16 gauge zip cord from any hardware store works as well. I like the color coded stuff as it is much easier to see when I’m assembling stuff in poor light. Don’t fall into the trap of using fatter 14 or 12 gauge wire. It will be a genuine pain to solder it to the much thinner leads of the various crossover parts.
  • ¼" thick or thinner plywood or masonite for crossover boards.
I don’t use those aluminum disconnects anymore (part #095-282 in the kit). They are a pain to get them to fit tight so they don’t come loose. To connect the wires that run to the woofer, tweeter, or the terminal cup, I solder them directly. I attach the wires together with a cable tie, twist wires and leads together, solder, and then cap the connection with one of those closed end crimp caps. They never come loose even if I ship a speaker UPS.

The parts for the Murphy-designed crossover are listed lower on down in his web page http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=pe_br1.html . Each part is linked to the right page to order it from Parts Express. Be sure to order two of each. Buy all the parts first. You’ll need to know how big they are when you layout the crossover board.

How big should the board be?
  • It has to hold all the parts.
  • It has to pass through the woofer hole in the cabinet (about 5¾") with the parts mounted.
  • And it has to sit flat on the floor of the cabinet.
After doing it wrong several different ways, I now measure the diameter of the woofer hole and cut a piece of paper or cardboard a bit smaller than that diameter. The other dimension should be short enough to lie flat on the floor inside the cabinet.

There are 3 inductor coils in this design – the 1 mH inductor will be the largest. Plan on lying that one flat. The next biggest is 0.56 mH. Hold it on your cardboard standing on edge like a wheel. Try to pass the cardboard and the inductor through the woofer hole. Trim the width of the cardboard until it does go through. This will be the size of your crossover board.

Dennis Murphy shows his in two separate circuits, one for the woofer and one for the tweeter. You can easily put both on one board. I redrew the schematics to make it easier to read. See the attached file. In the original diagram, the resistors shown in-line with the inductors with values less than 1 ohm aren’t separate resistors. They are the inherent resistance of the wire in the inductor coil. I took them out, and labeled things so they are easier to read.

If electrical units and abbreviations bug you because you don’t understand them, here is Crossover Parts 101.

Inductor coils are variable electrical filters measured in Henries, or more often milli Henries mH. They are used in crossovers as low-pass electrical filters. The higher their mH value, the lower the audio frequency they start filtering. Inductor coils also come in different size wire, so if the Murphy design calls for a 1.0 mH 18 ga inductor, don’t get one that’s 16 or 20 gauge.

Capacitors are variable high-pass electrical filters. They are measured in Farads or more often micro Farads µF. Sometimes people use the letter u, as in uF, because they don’t know how to type µ the Greek letter mu. The higher their µF value, the lower the audio frequency they start filtering.

Resistors measured in ohms, Ω (Greek uppercase letter omega). They reduce current flow at all frequencies.

As long as you wire the parts as shown in the schematic diagrams, it doesn’t matter where you place the capacitors and resistors. The inductor coils, those doughnut shaped coils of wire, can interact with each other, so you should watch out how you locate them. This link has an easy to follow guide http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm. Scroll all the way to the bottom to see the diagram. I keep a printed copy at my workbench.

I'll work on a drawing for the layout tonight and post it tomorrow.
 

Attachments

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Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
You are going to pull (de-solder) the parts off the PE X-Over. If you want You can send me parts for one X-over. I can document assembly and then ship back.
That's quite an offer and I appreciate it. Just so that we are all on the same page here I need to let you know that the BR-1 crossover is not assembled yet. There is nothing to de-solder. If I give up, I will take you up on your offer. Right now I am still somewhat optimistic that with some help, I can do this.

Let's give Swerd a chance to do what he does.
Hi Ho has some interesting pics in his DIY Speakers in his sig:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/member.php?u=12381
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Crossover Parts 101.
I quoted that because I felt like I had to quote something. I am going to order up some parts. That's a doozy of a response if ever I saw one. I'm gonna make you proud. Wait and see. :)
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I quoted that because I felt like I had to quote something. I am going to order up some parts. That's a doozy of a response if ever I saw one. I'm gonna make you proud. Wait and see. :)
If you're a carpenter, you have a lot more experience building stuff than I have. You'll do great. As long as the crossover board is wired right, no one will ever see how messy a job you did ;). My first board was a real mess - but it worked.

Do me one favor, measure the diameter of your cabinet's woofer hole and the inside floor dimensions. Post them here.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
no one will ever see how messy a job you did
My father used to tell me that you could tell what kind of finish carpenter a man was by the quality of the work in the closets. Here's a bunch of pic's.









 
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Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
measure the diameter of your cabinet's woofer hole and the inside floor dimensions












They say it's worth a thousand words. Does that get you the numbers that you are looking for?
 
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