I don't understand...

[itschris]

As I stated in another thread, the same ole characters just search under their names, it's all the proof you need. BTW Thanks for speaking out!
Regards, Bill

Bill, why do you care what others talk about? I don't get it. Start your own threads about what you want to talk about and I'm sure you'll get a lot of participation as it's clear the interests of the users here span the range.

Would it be better if we had some kind of rule that you had to start each thread with the subject? I don't care... I'll do it. If I see a post about something I have no interest in... I just move on and let those who feel like it, talk about it. I don't close out of the thread being annoyed that others are talking about something I don't want to or that it's the same old blather. What does it matter?

 

[Nemo128]

Incidentally, he also claimed that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed had confessed under torture to a number of things he couldn't possibly be involved with, which does tie up with some evidence I've seen in the past that torture doesn't tend to result in useful information (basically you'll tell your captors anything they want to hear in an attempt to stop the abuse).

Apply enough pressure of the right type and the worst of sinners will repent to live as the best of saints, and vice versa.

Whether you extract what you want to hear or the truth, the difficult matter is figuring out which one you extracted.

 

[mudrummer99]

Evil is way too subjective to say "this group or that group doesn't understand evil". Evil is, for the most part, about perception.

Hitler thought the Jews were evil. Catholics thought Protestants/Muslims/Jews were evil during the crusades/inquisitions/etc. Romans thought Christians were evil. This goes on and on. The real problem is that people are given perception from another, more well spoken, charismatic, leader, be it religious, political or otherwise. For the most part, since I didn't actually read the link provided by the OP, people are not evil. Do you think all the Germans fighting for the Nazi party wanted to annihilate entire races? Do you think all Catholics want to see Protestants hung as traitors to the christian beliefs? Did everyone in Saddam's regime enjoy torturing and killing their countrymen? Not all terrorists are evil, most are doing what they believe is correct in the eyes of their god, with some coaxing from people that could probably be construed as evil.

This is a big reason I am not a big fan of organized religion, too much power in one institution also breeds evil. People become so self-righteous that they believe their word is like that of god and they become untouchable, or that their interpretation of the bible is the right one. It's absolutely incredible what some people will believe when you deliver it the right way and this is where most "evil" is born.

To answer the OP, "liberals" recognize evil the same way as "conservatives" and "moderates", through their own eyes. I believe a CEO taking millions in bonuses while laying off thousands of workers of a failing company is evil and immoral, but I know there are quite a few CEOs that would disagree.

Perception, as I see it , is where we all go wrong, no matter the situation. Just ask your neighbor how he sees you, and, if they are honest, you might be surprised by the response.

Mike

 

[itschris]

Hitler didn't think the Jews were evil. He saw them as stepping stone to power. When there's a crisis there are those who will take advantage of it and stoke the fears of those who are suffering. Rahm Emanuel said it himself when the financial downturn started to take hold. "Never let a crisis go to waste," he said. And you know what? They didn't. While everyone was shell shocked, they crammed the biggest spending bill, rought with waste, down everyone's throat. It was a power play of epic proportions and they executed it just about flawlessly.

CEO's aren't evil You have options of whether or not you want to be a part of a company that you take issue with. They may be greedy and a 100 other names, but evil is different. Being kidnapped and having your head cut off is a bit different.

 

[mudrummer99]

Hitler didn't think the Jews were evil. He saw them as stepping stone to power.

Stepping stone to power? So you think the Jewish question was "How do we use them to our ends?" The "Final Solution" for Hitler was the genocide of an entire people and you think he was using them as a stepping stone? Perception.

As far as CEOs and the like, I think that incredible greed is evil. Ever heard the saying "Money is the root of all evil" It's way more true than most people even fathom. They aren't all evil and there are some great companies out there that I believe are led by incredibly honest and genuine human beings, Warren Buffett comes to mind immediately.

Yes, by our perception, mine included, kidnapping an innocent person and decapitating them is evil. But seriously, what about the Spanish Inquisition? Christians did the same not too long ago, to everyone, there just wasn't any media coverage so that everyone could see what was actually happening. It is actually a somewhat recent thing that Christianity has stabilized and come to start living the values it preaches. They believed they were doing the right thing, and killed anyone that didn't agree. Again, this is why I don't follow any particular religion, too much "I'm right, your wrong" going on, even within the same belief system.

I am simply playing devil's advocate and saying that their perception is that they are doing the right thing, but are being spurred on by leaders that are encouraging their acts, much as every major religion has been through before. People like to forget these things and live in the now, and I get that. But if you do this you miss a large part of why things are the way they are.

Mike

 

[itschris]

Stepping stone to power? So you think the Jewish question was "How do we use them to our ends?" The "Final Solution" for Hitler was the genocide of an entire people and you think he was using them as a stepping stone? Perception.

As far as CEOs and the like, I think that incredible greed is evil. Ever heard the saying "Money is the root of all evil" It's way more true than most people even fathom. They aren't all evil and there are some great companies out there that I believe are led by incredibly honest and genuine human beings, Warren Buffett comes to mind immediately.

Yes, by our perception, mine included, kidnapping an innocent person and decapitating them is evil. But seriously, what about the Spanish Inquisition? Christians did the same not too long ago, to everyone, there just wasn't any media coverage so that everyone could see what was actually happening. It is actually a somewhat recent thing that Christianity has stabilized and come to start living the values it preaches. They believed they were doing the right thing, and killed anyone that didn't agree. Again, this is why I don't follow any particular religion, too much "I'm right, your wrong" going on, even within the same belief system.

I am simply playing devil's advocate and saying that their perception is that they are doing the right thing, but are being spurred on by leaders that are encouraging their acts, much as every major religion has been through before. People like to forget these things and live in the now, and I get that. But if you do this you miss a large part of why things are the way they are.

Mike

If you studied some of Hitler's writings, you find that there was some admiration for the Jews. But let's be clear... you can't assign rational thought process to a madman.

I find nothing wrong with some believing they're right and that I'm wrong. We believe based on how we interpret things and while certain truths are universal, what lies beyond those boundaries can be viewed an infinate number of ways.

I'm absolutely against partial birth abortion... yet others are not. As much as I cannot understand how anyone could find it acceptable and even criminal, there are those who find it absolutely intolerable that I would think that a viable fetus that could be birthed and survive has any rights. These are things which can be debated all day long.

Each moment of the day, we disagree or think differently about things... about everything. Hell, I don't think I've ever been to a meeting here at the office where more than 2 people ever agreed on anything.

I just don't see CEO or business people as evil. There are those who may be greedy, hurtful, SOB's but not evil. I fear evil... I feel no intimidation by any CEO that walked the planet.

 

[mudrummer99]

If you studied some of Hitler's writings, you find that there was some admiration for the Jews. But let's be clear... you can't assign rational thought process to a madman.

I find nothing wrong with some believing they're right and that I'm wrong. We believe based on how we interpret things and while certain truths are universal, what lies beyond those boundaries can be viewed an infinate number of ways.

I'm absolutely against partial birth abortion... yet others are not. As much as I cannot understand how anyone could find it acceptable and even criminal, there are those who find it absolutely intolerable that I would think that a viable fetus that could be birthed and survive has any rights. These are things which can be debated all day long.

Each moment of the day, we disagree or think differently about things... about everything. Hell, I don't think I've ever been to a meeting here at the office where more than 2 people ever agreed on anything.

I just don't see CEO or business people as evil. There are those who may be greedy, hurtful, SOB's but not evil. I fear evil... I feel no intimidation by any CEO that walked the planet.

The definition of evil

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evil

The first definition that comes up every time I google or search the meaning of the word evil is morally reprehensible. If a good portion of these people don't fit this meaning, then I don't know who would.

Is willingly hurting or killing someone evil? What if you know you are doing the right thing? Evil is not as black and white as a lot of people like to believe it is. I think what we are discussing in your original post is whether or not religious fanaticism is evil. Again, I think it is wrong and terrible to kill anyone for just about any reason, but is it evil?

I feel evil should be reserved for those who are morally bankrupt and do things to further their own selfish agenda at any cost. Maybe the leaders of these groups are evil, depending on their motives, but the people who follow them are doing what they believe to be right by striking down those who don't agree with them, just as nearly every other religious group has done throughout history. I don't believe these people or their actions are evil. Wrong and unjust, yes, but not evil. Evil is doing wrong without intent to do good. Good is just as foggy as evil by the way.

Mike