RE Audio XXX 18"

[Inertia]

The RE Audio XXX 18" have 54mm of xmax! And weigh 110 pounds! Are these things well made? How big of an enclosure would you need for a sealed setup? A guy on one forum has a 25ft3 enclosure tuned to 11hz with one of these things.

 

[lsiberian]

The RE Audio XXX 18" have 54mm of xmax! And weigh 110 pounds! Are these things well made? How big of an enclosure would you need for a sealed setup? A guy on one forum has a 25ft3 enclosure tuned to 11hz with one of these things.

I've modeled the sub in a 50cuft box it has perfectly flat response to 10hz with no eq and an 11hz tuning. But it can be used in the kappa box. However the air port velocity is extreme in the kappa box with high amounts of power.

This sub is capable of extreme SPL, but requires an enormous box. I suggest the AP Axis 15 instead. It can be used in reasonable large sub box with insane extension

 

[WmAx]

The RE Audio XXX 18" have 54mm of xmax! And weigh 110 pounds! Are these things well made? How big of an enclosure would you need for a sealed setup? A guy on one forum has a 25ft3 enclosure tuned to 11hz with one of these things.

The x-max, I have read, is rather overstated on the RE Audio drivers. The Audiopulse units for example, are conservative on x-max ratings. Take the AXIS for example, it is rated like 30mm one way, but it's mechanical limits (x-mech) are far greater. The x-max is the linear motor rating limit on the AXIS.

The RE Audio are good drivers, but I would not take them over Audiopulse unless of course you found an incredible bargain/deal. To my knowledge, the proven highest quality 18" in the world is still the TC Sounds LMS/Audio Pulse LMS Ultra.

In reality, the x-max is far more than you can use in most cases. Take the AXIS with 30mm one way. With 2000 watts RMS, you can only use about 1/2 of that (15mm) range in a sealed cabinet with a reasonable QTC of say 0.8 to 0.7. In a ported unit, the excursion is reduced further. I can't imagine under what conditions that 54mm is need on an 18" driver, except for simple SPL limit competition using 10,000 watts of power or something....

-Chris

 

[Inertia]

I wasn't thinking about putting it in a kappa box, that would be a complete waste of the sub I am guessing. Just was curious.

Would the AP Axis have more output than a Mal X?

 

[WmAx]

Would the AP Axis have more output than a Mal X?

No, the Mal-x has substantially increased surface area to it's advantage (18" D) compared to the AXIS (15" D). If there was an 18" AXIS, then sure, the AXIS would probably come out on top thanks to the incredibly linear motor combined with massive power handling/dissipation capabilities. The Mal-X is also a bit different in regards to suited bandwidth. The AXIS should not be used over 70Hz. The Mal-X can be used over 100Hz. This is due to the low inductance of the Mal-X, where as the AXIS has high inductance, causing a hump and then roll off above the 70Hz range. You can compensate for this effect with a digital EQ on the AXIS, but you need to measure the response accurately and program precise correction filters to counter-act the effect. You could get optimal response up to about 90Hz with the AXIS by use of this EQ technique, but most people don't want to be bothered with accurately measuring and correcting the response error.

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

The x-max, I have read, is rather overstated on the RE Audio drivers. The Audiopulse units for example, are conservative on x-max ratings. Take the AXIS for example, it is rated like 30mm one way, but it's mechanical limits (x-mech) are far greater. The x-max is the linear motor rating limit on the AXIS.

The RE Audio are good drivers, but I would not take them over Audiopulse unless of course you found an incredible bargain/deal. To my knowledge, the proven highest quality 18" in the world is still the TC Sounds LMS/Audio Pulse LMS Ultra.

In reality, the x-max is far more than you can use in most cases. Take the AXIS with 30mm one way. With 2000 watts RMS, you can only use about 1/2 of that (15mm) range in a sealed cabinet with a reasonable QTC of say 0.8 to 0.7. In a ported unit, the excursion is reduced further. I can't imagine under what conditions that 54mm is need on an 18" driver, except for simple SPL limit competition using 10,000 watts of power or something....

-Chris

Even so the driver is very capable. I don't know how many folks need 128db in their home theater. Though Inertia could be the exception.

I'm not surprised the xmax is overstated. It seemed unreasonable to me. Still I wouldn't go past half the xmax on very many drivers. I say if the deal is good on the driver it might be worthwhile. But I have my doubts if its in the high priced range.

What's your budget Inertia? If you can pull an AP Axis 15 I think you would be more than satisfied with a ported version of that. It can get twice as loud as the Kappa. You could also make extend super deep.

 

[WmAx]

I wanted to provide the source of the x-max limit on the RE XXX 18" driver:
http://audioforum.termpro.com/topic/8/12699/2.html

Supergrass analyzed the driver on a DUMAX analysis machine (similar to Klippel analyzer). The driver is limited by a suspension that limits the driver to around 34mm(maybe a little more) one way for all practical intents/purposes.

Quote from supergrass (whom spent 2 days analyzing the driver with DUMAX):

If I was to speculate what this motor itself is capable of, I would estimate at LEAST 34mm....if not more. The Xsus, I feel is fairly accurate from our test, and deductivly, the Xmax as well.

The only reason why I posted, was to dispell the 54mm Xmag rating.....it is not indicitive of correct results.....the curves are the correct results.

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

I wanted to provide the source of the x-max limit on the RE XXX 18" driver:
http://audioforum.termpro.com/topic/8/12699/2.html

Supergrass analyzed the driver on a DUMAX analysis machine (similar to Klippel analyzer). The driver is limited by a suspension that limits the driver to around 34mm(maybe a little more) one way for all practical intents/purposes.

Quote from supergrass (whom spent 2 days analyzing the driver with DUMAX):


-Chris

I've remodeled the driver with Chris's Xmax and determined it to be pure junk in terms of size vs performance. Even a JL Audio 12w7 in a Kappa size box is in striking distance of this sub in a huge 50 cuft box. While the extension may be a tad better. I believe it's not worth the price of power, size, and whatever the driver probably costs.

I suggest you look elsewhere. If you have a kappa box built and want an upgrade. Pick up a JL Audio 12w7. It would almost double your output.

 

[WmAx]

I've remodeled the driver with Chris's Xmax and determined it to be pure junk in terms of size vs performance. Even a JL Audio 12w7 in a Kappa size box is in striking distance of this sub in a huge 50 cuft box. While the extension may be a tad better. I believe it's not worth the price of power, size, and whatever the driver probably costs.

I suggest you look elsewhere. If you have a kappa box built and want an upgrade. Pick up a JL Audio 12w7. It would almost double your output.

The REXXX is extremely low efficiency from what I can gather, and despite its huge looking motor and high weight, apparently it does not have the monster power handling of an AXIS for example. In addition, the AXIS is apparently far more sensitive combined with higher power handling. The AXIS also likely has a superior linearity motor, and most certainly has a superior suspension system.

-Chris

 

[MidnightSensi]

A XXX driver is an excellent driver, but in my opinion, I'd spend less per driver, get less esoteric drivers, and have more drive units, smaller enclosures, and more efficient subwoofers.

I wanted to provide the source of the x-max limit on the RE XXX 18" driver:
http://audioforum.termpro.com/topic/8/12699/2.html

Supergrass analyzed the driver on a DUMAX analysis machine (similar to Klippel analyzer). The driver is limited by a suspension that limits the driver to around 34mm(maybe a little more) one way for all practical intents/purposes.

Quote from supergrass (whom spent 2 days analyzing the driver with DUMAX):


-Chris

Supergrass haha nniiccee

He also said his machine didn't have enough pressure. And he'd need exponentially more pressure bottom out a soft-end suspension. Like you mentioned, really that type of an X-max is for someone plowing massive amounts of power into it. The 34mm he tested is probably more likely on a typical powered system.

 

[lsiberian]

A XXX driver is an excellent driver, but in my opinion, I'd spend less per driver, get less esoteric drivers, and have more drive units, smaller enclosures, and more efficient subwoofers.

The added benefit of the above approach is the evening out of room response.

 

[Inertia]

Right now all I can afford is another kappa perfect build.... but I am thinking of possibly doing a sealed maelstrom 21" when i get the money. They are supposed to be out in may or june at $590 a piece.

I was just wondering about the RE XXX because it is so huge.

 

[WmAx]

The RE XXX may be a good driver, but I think it's a waste of money. You do not get much performance (SPL) for the dollars. And as for distortion, you can get better motor designs for much lower price as well.

From what I can gather, the 12" RE XXX can barely produce more SPL than a JL Audio 8" W7. Yes, you read that right. Due to the super low efficiency of the RE driver, that is a realistic typical result.

With 2000 clean watts, roughly 132 dB could be achieved with the 12" RE XXX:

http://www.caraudiomag.com/features/0704_cae_subwoofer_re_audio_xxx_12d2/specifications.html

With 500 clean watts, roughly 131 dB could be achieved with the 8" JL W7:
http://audiogearmag.com/reviews/subwoofers/review-JL_Audio_8W7b.asp

Yes, I know that these are two complete different scenarios/installs. But both cases, very experienced car audio guys did these installs/tests. So these should be roughly comparable results that one can expect on average.

Now, low 130 dB range is typical for a good quality 12" driver. But you would expect much more from a $1k+ driver like the RE XXX IMO. It may be low distortion, but you can get low distortion drivers with that kind of SPL for much lower prices. The Audio Pulse 12" LMS (probably the highest quality 12" in the world), is only about $600.

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

Right now all I can afford is another kappa perfect build.... but I am thinking of possibly doing a sealed maelstrom 21" when i get the money. They are supposed to be out in may or june at $590 a piece.

I was just wondering about the RE XXX because it is so huge.

As has already been stated the JL Audio 12w7 would be a good upgrade along with a DCX 2496. Though I don't believe it offers sub 20hz eqing. The SMS-1 does so if you are just dead set on extension. Maybe Chris can Chime in on this one.

Don't waste money on the maelstrom. I don't know what goals you have in life, but I don't see huge boxed subwoofers faring well if you ever find that special person.

 

[Warpdrv]

Don't waste money on the maelstrom. I don't know what goals you have in life, but I don't see huge boxed subwoofers faring well if you ever find that special person.

This post is a farce... If you don't own one of these drivers then don't make judgements.... He already has an infinity kappa, which is a larger box then the sealed Mal-X, a 2ft cubed box makes a great table...

I own 3 of these and they have amazing output in a small 2 ft cu box with the right power behind them and EQ. I have changed out all my amps and am powering each of these drivers with a 4000w amp... they won't take it all, but they can handle quite a bit.

I also compared the Mal-X side by side with my JL F112 and the SQ is more then strikingly similar, and measures very very well. The Mal-X's are great sounding drivers with fantastic output.

I had a subwoofer shootout at my house and the XXX was also in my house, Ricci brought it along with his LMS-5400 and we had a great time running through all the drivers... Don't give in to the idea that the XXX is junk either, you would be hard pressed to get that driver to distort until great excursion is met and you better have the right amp behind it, it will scare the hell out of you.... But for the money for that - as MidnightSensi put it "esoteric driver", you could buy a couple other drivers and amps

A could of sealed Mal-X's with EQ is an extremely powerful setup, just make sure you use bigger amps then the EP2500, or you'll be amp limited. I was having clipping problems and couldn't get the output I was looking for until I upgraded my amps... Now its just downright scary...

I'm running 3 Mal-X's and 1 TC3000 in my room...

 

[Inertia]

Isiberian: I have been married for almost 2 years and I have a kappa perfect build already and she doesn't mind a bit about the bass or the size of the box. Yeah my ONLY goal is to have a huge subwoofer... good one there I also wrestled varsity Division I in college. Maybe you wanna do some mma sometime with me lmao

 

[sawzalot]

Isiberian: I have been married for almost 2 years and I have a kappa perfect build already and she doesn't mind a bit about the bass or the size of the box. Yeah my ONLY goal is to have a huge subwoofer... good one there I also wrestled varsity Division I in college. Maybe you wanna do some mma sometime with me lmao

Thats all I ever wanted also a bigger Subwoofer the size of the Box can sometimes get a little overwhelming but I guess as long as it looks good how can we not be happy

 

[lsiberian]

This post is a farce... If you don't own one of these drivers then don't make judgements.... He already has an infinity kappa, which is a larger box then the sealed Mal-X, a 2ft cubed box makes a great table...

I own 3 of these and they have amazing output in a small 2 ft cu box with the right power behind them and EQ. I have changed out all my amps and am powering each of these drivers with a 4000w amp... they won't take it all, but they can handle quite a bit.

I also compared the Mal-X side by side with my JL F112 and the SQ is more then strikingly similar, and measures very very well. The Mal-X's are great sounding drivers with fantastic output.

I had a subwoofer shootout at my house and the XXX was also in my house, Ricci brought it along with his LMS-5400 and we had a great time running through all the drivers... Don't give in to the idea that the XXX is junk either, you would be hard pressed to get that driver to distort until great excursion is met and you better have the right amp behind it, it will scare the hell out of you.... But for the money for that - as MidnightSensi put it "esoteric driver", you could buy a couple other drivers and amps

A could of sealed Mal-X's with EQ is an extremely powerful setup, just make sure you use bigger amps then the EP2500, or you'll be amp limited. I was having clipping problems and couldn't get the output I was looking for until I upgraded my amps... Now its just downright scary...

I'm running 3 Mal-X's and 1 TC3000 in my room...

How much sub can a person honestly need. I mean 21" for crying out loud? That's just beyond a personal home theaters even reasonable use. Now I can understand using a few in dedicated large room, but seriously? 21" would be nearly the size of the Kappa Box. I have nothing against any of these drivers, but I just don't see them a reasonable home theater solutions.

 

[lsiberian]

Isiberian: I have been married for almost 2 years and I have a kappa perfect build already and she doesn't mind a bit about the bass or the size of the box. Yeah my ONLY goal is to have a huge subwoofer... good one there I also wrestled varsity Division I in college. Maybe you wanna do some mma sometime with me lmao

No where did I state or assume your goals. I simply find a box bigger than the Kappa to be overkill in many rooms. That's my opinion, but I stand by it. I also don't think your subs are being used to their full potential. A well done EQ even on those drivers will make a big difference.

I also think room treatments would be a better investment at this point.

If you want a 21" sub then build one. I'll be more than happy to help where I can. If you don't like my advice then simply dismiss it.

On side note you are blessed to have a woman that tolerates this hobby to the degree she does. I pray you have a good marriage.

Also I am a strong believer in non-violence so I have no desire to fight anyone.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Hey don't you live somewhere around me, I'll give the cage a go with ya just for kicks.

I also wrestled varsity Division I in college. Maybe you wanna do some mma sometime with me lmao