Complete beginner would like some advice/direction.

[Berlioz]

I've always liked my music at a (relatively) high quality, but only recently have I gained interest for audiophile level sound quality. There's one problem though: I really have no idea where to begin.

I have some average computer speakers, no sound card, and no stereo equipment whatsoever.

Just a week ago, I began to replace all my mp3 files with CD's. My CD collection is growing, and they've all been converted to .flac format. I bought a Cowon S9 player, and am starting to learn how to play with the equalizer. I also ordered a pair of Shure SE530's, only after testing them alongside various other headphones.

I gave my portable system priority since I'm on the go a lot more than I am at home, but now I would like to start on a home stereo system. My resources are pretty small - I don't have a lot of funds, and no starting equipment, but on the bright side, my dad says I can have his collection of about 1000 vinyl LP's.

There are a ton of questions running through my head, but really I'd just like some resources I can read up on instead of bombarding the forum with questions. Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance for any help.

 

[j_garcia]

I say bombard away. We need some specifics to really help you out anyway. Like room size, budget, etc...

Speakers are the place to start, then find the right power to compliment them and then sources.

I'd like to get my hands on my dad's LP collection...I own vinyl and I used to use his turntable and now I don't even have one in my system. I have been thinking about adding one to my bedroom setup.

There is also the "basics" thread in this very forum.

 

[Berlioz]

Ok, thanks. Well my budget is about $2000 canadian. I'm a student so that limit is pretty much set in stone. I live in my parents basement, the room is fairly large, maybe 250 or so square feet. I'd imagine the acoustics are pretty bad - I "renovated" it myself and theres exposed brick/drywall, ceiling tiles are cut open for the furnace register, etc.

I'm willing to wait if it means getting a system that has some longevity. I like to think in the long term, so if it's possible to get an amp that's $100 more and sounds $150 better, then I'll do it. However, theres still that 2000 limit, which is pretty modest for an audiophile unfortunately.

I took a look through the basics thread before I made this post, but most of it was on home theatre set ups, which is not really what I'm looking for. I'm just overwhelmed by the amount of components that are involved.

I see tall floor speakers going for the same price as rather small box ones, and I have no idea what that means quality or sound wise.

Is it worth it to use tube amps?
And does a pre-amp have a place in a newbie system?
Are CD's really as bad as some audiophiles say?
Do the cables/connectors make as much of a difference as some people say they do?
Should I use my computer as a source, with a USB turntable etc, or go analog?

Again, thanks for any help or comments.

 

[Nemo128]

Sounds like a good budget to me when talking 2 channel systems.

 

[j_garcia]

Sounds like a good budget to me when talking 2 channel systems.

I agree, 2K is pretty good for a starter 2ch system. My bedroom system cost about a grand and most are blown away by what it is capable of with just 2 small bookshelf speakers - in a larger room, just adding a sub would be needed. If you intend to stay 2ch for the time being, I'd highly recommend going with a decent integrated amp, of which you can easily find top notch models on ebay and Audiogon for relatively cheap (Arcam, NAD, Marantz, Rotel, etc...). I'd put half the budget into speakers and the other half integrated and one source, then add sources as needed and as budget permits.

Basment acoustics will likely not be great, so some simple treatments like rugs (not just wall, possibly floor also) will help and positioning of the speakers will likely be critical if you are after the best results.

Tube amps = yes, it is worth it, but they aren't cheap. That might eat more of your budget and speakers are more important. Preamp in a starter system would work if you were going used, but probably isn't necessary yet. If you already had amps, that would be a different story.

CDs are OK and will get you by, but with all that vinyl at your disposal, I'd look in that direction. Vinyl could be harder to find stuff you like and current titles though.

Speaker wire makes very little difference IMO, though interconnects can have a more noticeable influence on the sound. Still, this is the lowest on the toem pole of places to spend money initially, as it has the smallest overall effect on the system.

Any sources will work but as always, the quality of the sound of the system is only as good as what it is being fed.

 

[Pyrrho]

Ok, thanks. Well my budget is about $2000 canadian. I'm a student so that limit is pretty much set in stone. I live in my parents basement, the room is fairly large, maybe 250 or so square feet. I'd imagine the acoustics are pretty bad - I "renovated" it myself and theres exposed brick/drywall, ceiling tiles are cut open for the furnace register, etc.

I'm willing to wait if it means getting a system that has some longevity. I like to think in the long term, so if it's possible to get an amp that's $100 more and sounds $150 better, then I'll do it. However, theres still that 2000 limit, which is pretty modest for an audiophile unfortunately.

I took a look through the basics thread before I made this post, but most of it was on home theatre set ups, which is not really what I'm looking for. I'm just overwhelmed by the amount of components that are involved.

I see tall floor speakers going for the same price as rather small box ones, and I have no idea what that means quality or sound wise.

What you need to do is go out and listen to as many speakers, and as many types of speakers, as you can stand to audition, that cost less than about $1700. Leave your money, checkbook, and credit cards at home; you should not buy until you have listened to many things in many different stores.

How much you can spend on your speakers will depend upon how many types of sources you want, and on the characteristics of the speakers (as low impedance and inefficient speakers require better amplification). But speakers will make the most difference in the sound quality of your system. Scrimp on them, and everything will suffer for it.

Is it worth it to use tube amps?

No. They are a total waste of money if you want accurate sound. Tube amplifiers distort more, and some people like the sound of added distortion. (See the links below in connection with turntables for more information on the idea of people liking distortion.)

And does a pre-amp have a place in a newbie system?

That depends upon what else you are using. Most likely, it will be more cost effective to buy a receiver than to go with separates, but it really depends upon what speakers you end up with.

Are CD's really as bad as some audiophiles say?

No. CDs, if well made, can sound extremely good. Some audiophiles like the sound to be altered and less perfect, so they prefer things that add distortion, like LPs. See:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles/426-a-secrets-technical-article.html

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles/427-a-secrets-technical-article.html

Before CDs came out, digital recordings from the late 1970's and early 1980's that were put on LPs were thought to have great fidelity. It is only after people were able to eliminate the added distortions and imperfections of LPs that people started to object to digital. They were used to distortion, and they missed it.

Do the cables/connectors make as much of a difference as some people say they do?

No. Wires are one of the biggest scams in audio. Read this:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Should I use my computer as a source, with a USB turntable etc, or go analog?

CDs will give you better sound than any turntable, provided that they did a good job making the CD (which, however, is not always the case). However, since your father is planning on giving you his old LPs, if you want to play them, you will need to budget for it. If you want to listen directly to the records, you should just go analog. But if you want to process the sound to eliminate clicks and pops with your computer, and put them on CDRs, then you might want to go with a USB turntable. I personally would just forget about a turntable, but you must decide these things for yourself.

If your father is getting rid of his LPs, is he also getting rid of his old turntable? If so, you might want to just use that.

Again, thanks for any help or comments.

I cannot stress too much the importance of speakers. Spend your money there, and you can go with a very inexpensive CD player, and probably a very inexpensive receiver. No speaker, no matter how expensive, will have a frequency response as flat and perfect as an ordinary inexpensive CD player or an ordinary receiver. And the speaker will distort much, much more as well. So spending your money getting a better speaker will matter far more than any difference among CD players or amplifiers (assuming that the amplifier is adequate to drive the particular speakers in question).

One last thing: There is so much BS spread about audio, that it is difficult to avoid. Don't trust anyone, including me. Research these things, and believe only what seems reasonable to believe after looking at a variety of opinions and thinking very, very carefully about it all.

 

[lsiberian]

What you need to do is go out and listen to as many speakers, and as many types of speakers, as you can stand to audition, that cost less than about $1700. Leave your money, checkbook, and credit cards at home; you should not buy until you have listened to many things in many different stores.

How much you can spend on your speakers will depend upon how many types of sources you want, and on the characteristics of the speakers (as low impedance and inefficient speakers require better amplification). But speakers will make the most difference in the sound quality of your system. Scrimp on them, and everything will suffer for it.





No. They are a total waste of money if you want accurate sound. Tube amplifiers distort more, and some people like the sound of added distortion. (See the links below in connection with turntables for more information on the idea of people liking distortion.)





That depends upon what else you are using. Most likely, it will be more cost effective to buy a receiver than to go with separates, but it really depends upon what speakers you end up with.





No. CDs, if well made, can sound extremely good. Some audiophiles like the sound to be altered and less perfect, so they prefer things that add distortion, like LPs. See:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles/426-a-secrets-technical-article.html

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles/427-a-secrets-technical-article.html

Before CDs came out, digital recordings from the late 1970's and early 1980's that were put on LPs were thought to have great fidelity. It is only after people were able to eliminate the added distortions and imperfections of LPs that people started to object to digital. They were used to distortion, and they missed it.





No. Wires are one of the biggest scams in audio. Read this:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm





CDs will give you better sound than any turntable, provided that they did a good job making the CD (which, however, is not always the case). However, since your father is planning on giving you his old LPs, if you want to play them, you will need to budget for it. If you want to listen directly to the records, you should just go analog. But if you want to process the sound to eliminate clicks and pops with your computer, and put them on CDRs, then you might want to go with a USB turntable. I personally would just forget about a turntable, but you must decide these things for yourself.

If your father is getting rid of his LPs, is he also getting rid of his old turntable? If so, you might want to just use that.





I cannot stress too much the importance of speakers. Spend your money there, and you can go with a very inexpensive CD player, and probably a very inexpensive receiver. No speaker, no matter how expensive, will have a frequency response as flat and perfect as an ordinary inexpensive CD player or an ordinary receiver. And the speaker will distort much, much more as well. So spending your money getting a better speaker will matter far more than any difference among CD players or amplifiers (assuming that the amplifier is adequate to drive the particular speakers in question).

One last thing: There is so much BS spread about audio, that it is difficult to avoid. Don't trust anyone, including me. Research these things, and believe only what seems reasonable to believe after looking at a variety of opinions and thinking very, very carefully about it all.

This is an excellent post! Listen to it. Speakers first!

 

[j_garcia]

Yeah, I kind of forgot to throw in the part there about going and auditioning a lot of speakers. Since you say you don't know what the differences are, going and listening is the best way to find that out.

 

[Berlioz]

Wow thanks guys, some of those links really enlightened me. I've spent a good amount of time researching, but there's been an interesting development:

My dad has a pair of Sansui SP5500X speakers in perfect condition, and a Sansui 881 receiver. I googled them and ran through a bunch of links. Everyone seems to be pretty positive about them (especially the receiver), but I figured - since you guys are the experts, maybe you know more about them?

He also has a Dual 601 turntable, and again, the reviews are pretty good. Again though, anyone here familiar with the brand?

I guess I got really lucky here, he even gave me some bundles of speaker wire!

 

[yettitheman]

You could have a cool vinatge system going on there

 

[lsiberian]

Wow thanks guys, some of those links really enlightened me. I've spent a good amount of time researching, but there's been an interesting development:

My dad has a pair of Sansui SP5500X speakers in perfect condition, and a Sansui 881 receiver. I googled them and ran through a bunch of links. Everyone seems to be pretty positive about them (especially the receiver), but I figured - since you guys are the experts, maybe you know more about them?

He also has a Dual 601 turntable, and again, the reviews are pretty good. Again though, anyone here familiar with the brand?

I guess I got really lucky here, he even gave me some bundles of speaker wire!

I suggest finding the most neutral speaker possible. I know people prefer some coloration, but ears adjust and prefer neutrality IMO. An EQ can easily adjust sounds to be warm and such. One of our speaker men(guys who builds them well) suggests the Behringer 2030 with a few mods as a nice speaker. Of course most folks prefer to buy their speakers already done.

Have fun!

 

[Pyrrho]

Wow thanks guys, some of those links really enlightened me. I've spent a good amount of time researching, but there's been an interesting development:

My dad has a pair of Sansui SP5500X speakers in perfect condition, and a Sansui 881 receiver. I googled them and ran through a bunch of links. Everyone seems to be pretty positive about them (especially the receiver), but I figured - since you guys are the experts, maybe you know more about them?

He also has a Dual 601 turntable, and again, the reviews are pretty good. Again though, anyone here familiar with the brand?

I guess I got really lucky here, he even gave me some bundles of speaker wire!

That seems like a decent vintage system. You might need to think about replacing the belt in the turntable, because they tend to stretch over time and then they don't turn the platter properly, which can increase wow & flutter as well as not turning the platter quite fast enough. You might also want to replace the stylus (needle) if it has been a while for that, too, as they tend to wear over time. If you like the way it sounds, you need not get anything, and save your money for your education. I do recommend getting an inexpensive CD player (I personally like carousel changers, and with CD players, there is no problem with having a changer, unlike with LPs). You might want to just do that.

If, however, you want the best sound possible for your money, you might want to go out and audition speakers. I have not heard your specific speakers, but I have heard a lot of speakers from that era, and in my opinion, there are much better ones available today, particularly for just under $2000.

But honestly, I would probably recommend just using your father's speakers unless you don't like the sound. When you are no longer a student, then, I think, would be the time to look into something better if you are interested.