RBH MC-616 vs Emotiva ERM-1 vs eD A6 6T6 MTM

[ack_bak]

All,

I would appeciate any advice I can get per the following speakers:
RBH MC-616 vs Emotiva ERM-1 vs eD A6 6T6 MTM

These would be three of the above (LCR) for my fronts. As far as price goes I need to keep this around $600 for all three speakers. It looks like the Emotiva speakers are on sale for $199 right now + 10% off and free shipping. The eD speakers will cost $476 shipped, and the wildcard is the RBH speakers as I live in Utah and my brother-in-law has a connection at RBH and can usually buy speakers at cost. But. This is not 100% certain as he has not bought anything there in about 2 years and is not sure if his friend still works at RBH.

I currently own some Polk Audio fronts (rti600 towers and a matching center) and have RBH 615 in-ceiling speakers for surrounds as well as an eD A2-300 sub. The room is approximately 15'x17' (it is in a basement) and I will be sitting approximately 11.5 ft away from my fronts. The Polks are over ten years old and are just not cutting it for me anymore. The center has always been lacking and I am planning on going with an AT screen with my 1080p projector with the speakers hidden behind the screen. Bookshelf loudspeakers will simply work much better.

I have always been impressed with RBH, but simply stated, without the connection the speakers will cost me over $1K and will be over my budget. So it may come down to Emotiva vs RBH. Both speakers get strong reviews, but I am leaning towards the Emotiva's. I will be using these speakers for about 90% home theater usage if that helps. I have been blown away by my eD subwoofer (replaced a Polk PSW-10) and have been very impressed by that company as well.

I would love to hear some opinions on these speakers and would welcome any advice on other speaker options as well. I might, might be able to stretch my budget to $650-700 if there is something that is much better for the money.

 

[FirstReflection]

From my perspective, it would be a choice between the RBH MC-616 and the Emotiva ERM-1. To my ear, the eD speakers are not as accurate as either of those two.

Whether you'd prefer the MC-616 or the ERM-1 depends on your personal taste. I would also advise that both benefit from ample power. Your room is medium sized and you shouldn't require crazy amounts of amplifier power or anything, but a wimpy receiver could have a bit of trouble with the 4 Ohm Emotiva speakers. Provided you have a mid-level receiver or better though, either will be fine with the RBH speakers being just a bit easier to drive.

In my experience, the Emotiva speakers are extremely neutral. I also really appreciate their versatility due to the tweeter and mid-bass adjustment switches. If you desire a bit more detail, you can boost the tweeter output 2dB and similarly, you can cut it 2 dB if your room is more reflective and "live". If you need to place the speakers close to a wall, the boundary compensation can turn bloated mid-bass into reasonable response.

That said, you certainly cannot go "wrong" with the RBH speakers. They are excellent. But I would not call them exactly neutral and they cannot be adjusted for possible room interaction due to physical placement as the Emotiva speakers can.

To me, the Emotiva speakers are the "safer" bet because they can be adjusted and because they are extremely neutral. The RBH speakers sound a bit more "vivid" than truly neutral and they have a bit of emphasis in the midrange. That sort of sound is very pleasing to most people though and if you really like it, then it may put a slightly bigger smile on your face

Hope that's helpful.

 

[AVRat]

Since they’re going behind a screen, I’d go with B-stock Ascend Acoustics CMT-340-/340C for just under $700: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=3903

 

[ack_bak]

From my perspective, it would be a choice between the RBH MC-616 and the Emotiva ERM-1. To my ear, the eD speakers are not as accurate as either of those two.

Whether you'd prefer the MC-616 or the ERM-1 depends on your personal taste. I would also advise that both benefit from ample power. Your room is medium sized and you shouldn't require crazy amounts of amplifier power or anything, but a wimpy receiver could have a bit of trouble with the 4 Ohm Emotiva speakers. Provided you have a mid-level receiver or better though, either will be fine with the RBH speakers being just a bit easier to drive.

In my experience, the Emotiva speakers are extremely neutral. I also really appreciate their versatility due to the tweeter and mid-bass adjustment switches. If you desire a bit more detail, you can boost the tweeter output 2dB and similarly, you can cut it 2 dB if your room is more reflective and "live". If you need to place the speakers close to a wall, the boundary compensation can turn bloated mid-bass into reasonable response.

That said, you certainly cannot go "wrong" with the RBH speakers. They are excellent. But I would not call them exactly neutral and they cannot be adjusted for possible room interaction due to physical placement as the Emotiva speakers can.

To me, the Emotiva speakers are the "safer" bet because they can be adjusted and because they are extremely neutral. The RBH speakers sound a bit more "vivid" than truly neutral and they have a bit of emphasis in the midrange. That sort of sound is very pleasing to most people though and if you really like it, then it may put a slightly bigger smile on your face

Hope that's helpful.

Thanks for the feedback. Honestly, I was also leaning towards the RBH speakers as well, but it looks like I won't be able to take advantage of my hookup with these speakers (ie gettting them at dealer cost) at this time. My connection is really swamped with work and life at this time and I just do not want to bother him (he is working 2 jobs right now to make ends meet). I called RBH directly and they will not sell to me direct or even sell me b-stock since there is an RBH dealer in my area. After a quick call to the dealer, it has become apparant that the 616's are just going to be too expensive at this time. Too bad.

So I was leaning towards the Emotiva speakers. But I was doing more research last night and am now really leaning towards the SVS SCS-01 speakers. They get very solid reviews and I called them up and spoke to them and they were extremely helpful and knowledgeable.

And now I am researching the HSU bookshelf speakers as well..

 

[ack_bak]

Since they’re going behind a screen, I’d go with B-stock Ascend Acoustics CMT-340-/340C for just under $700:

Wow. I did not think I could afford the Ascend's but you have given me something to consider here. These are solid speakers, especially at that price. Looks like it will come to about $750 with shipping. The SVS speakers are $489 shipped. That is a pretty big difference in price. The question is, are the Ascend's worth that price difference vs SVS.

 

[TRT]

Save up a little more jack and get the 6.3's for LCR. I'm pretty sure they offer a deal for multiple speaker purchases. Worth the wait. Do you have a good subwoofer? The Emo's roll off at 80hz.

 

[bandphan]

I listened to the emos with my hgs as the sub and found them quite nice for ht usage. It was in a room that had very little teatmeant ( thanks Dave ) and still was nice. Listened to some Strauss in dts that all thought sounded very good.

 

[FirstReflection]

The speakers are going to be placed behind an acoustically transparent screen, correct? IMO, that makes the Emotiva speakers your best choice by a fairly substantial margin. First of all, they are a sealed design. This is very beneficial when the speakers are going to be mounted very close to the wall. Ported speakers (such as the Ascend Acoustics CBM or CMT) will wind up with their ports placed too close to the wall and will result in poor mid-bass performance.

The Emotiva speakers are particularly well suited to placement behind a screen. The sealed design and boundary compensation switch lessens the worst issue (that of mid-bass performance). The available tweeter adjustment also allows you to compensate for the screen, most of which attenuate the high frequencies to some degree.

 

[ack_bak]

Save up a little more jack and get the 6.3's for LCR. I'm pretty sure they offer a deal for multiple speaker purchases. Worth the wait. Do you have a good subwoofer? The Emo's roll off at 80hz.

I have an eD A2-300. Amazing subwoofer for the price IMHO.

Here is the thing. I am in the middle of finishing my basement (I have already finished my media/ family area and office area and am now finishing 3 bedrooms and a bathroom). I was going to spend 1200 or so on new main speakers but we have decided to put in a gas fireplace in the basement media/family area. It is going to set me back about $1400... I cannot be selfish and I am paying 100% cash for the basement build out and the speakers. I have no credit card debt and I prefer it to stay that way.

As far as the speakers go, I just cannot wait any longer. I have 11 year old Polk fronts and center and over the course of those 11 years I have moved about 8 times (and once across the country). The left front speaker was recently damaged by by either one of my kids or a neighbor (I cannot wait to get my speakers behind an AT screen) and too be honest the center channel has always been lacking to me. I have a decent receiver (Onkyo 605) and much better surrounds and sub than I do my mains.

I just spoke with my wife and she is adamant that I pay cash (and I agree) and it looks like I have exactly $600 budgeted to upgrade my speakers. With two young children and everything else (basement build, landscaping, etc) speakers are just not my families #1 priority (although they are higher for me) There will always be something else to take priority so I don't see that $600 budget really growing anytime soon this year. With the poor economy my company really cut back on bonuses and raises this year.

So I want to do this reasonably and I am the type of person who likes to upgrade, so I can probably justify an upgrade in 5 years or so if I feel the need.

All that said, I think I have decided on my next set of speakers. The HSU HB-1 MKII's for fronts and the HC-1 MKII center. Honestly, I did not even research these as I remember reading about the first gen HB-1's and while they got good reviews, they had some flaws. However, the MKII's were released Q4 last year and have been gettting rave reviews. I called up a friend who is considered an audiophile (he recommended my RBH in-ceiling speakers as well as my eD sub) and he actually auditioned these speakers as well as the SVS SCS-01's and he did not even hesitate. He told me that the MKII's were better speakers in his opinion and that he felt they were the best bang for the buck out of any bookshelves that he has auditioned. That said, he did highly praise the Ascend 340's but he felt that since the HSU speakers were in my budget I should go that route and not look back. He had not heard the Emotiva speakers but had high praise for their amps.

I called up HSU and spoke to one of their engineers concerning my room layout and size and also the AT speaker placement and he really eased any fears that I had.

So I have not pulled the trigger just yet, but probably will very soon.

 

[ack_bak]

The speakers are going to be placed behind an acoustically transparent screen, correct? IMO, that makes the Emotiva speakers your best choice by a fairly substantial margin. First of all, they are a sealed design. This is very beneficial when the speakers are going to be mounted very close to the wall. Ported speakers (such as the Ascend Acoustics CBM or CMT) will wind up with their ports placed too close to the wall and will result in poor mid-bass performance.

The Emotiva speakers are particularly well suited to placement behind a screen. The sealed design and boundary compensation switch lessens the worst issue (that of mid-bass performance). The available tweeter adjustment also allows you to compensate for the screen, most of which attenuate the high frequencies to some degree.

Thanks for the feedback. Hmm. Per my above post I questioned the HSU engineer about putting these speakers behind an AT screen and he told me that they only needed 2" or so placement from the wall. I was concerned about the rear port of the HSU, but the HSU engineer said that this would be no problem.

But here is my problem. HSU has a 30 day moneyback guarantee on these speakers but I am not planning to go the AT route (I currently have a 100" pull-down screen) until later this year when I have the time and money (DIY on the false screen wall build and will be buying an AT screen).

Just when I was ready to pull the trigger

So, what to do? FirstReflection (or any other knowledable folks) do you see the rear port of the HSU speakers being an issue? I was planning on setting my crossover at 80hz and letting the eD sub do all the rest. I am also planning on wrapping the wall behind the spakers in 1" linacoustic.

 

[ack_bak]

Based on some rough early designs it looks like I can place my speakers about 9" from the wall. Will that be enough room for a ported speaker?

 

[bandphan]

Based on some rough early designs it looks like I can place my speakers about 9" from the wall. Will that be enough room for a ported speaker?

i wouldnt

 

[ack_bak]

i wouldnt

That was my initial impression, but the HSU engineer didn't think it would be an issue. Uggh..

So now I am back on the fence. SVS SCS01, Emo ERM 1's, or HSU...

I think I have eliminated the eD speakers. They seem like solid performers, but the reviews are not as favorable as the SVS and HSU reviews.

 

[bandphan]

That was my initial impression, but the HSU engineer didn't think it would be an issue. Uggh..

So now I am back on the fence. SVS SCS01, Emo ERM 1's, or HSU...

I think I have eliminated the eD speakers. They seem like solid performers, but the reviews are not as favorable as the SVS and HSU reviews.

at high bds you might here chuffing

 

[FirstReflection]

Well, my recommendation remains the same: the Emotiva ERM-1s. The price is right, their performance is excellent and they are particularly well suited to your eventual acoustically transparent screen setup and, in the mean time, will also sound great with your current screen. Being able to adjust their mid-bass and tweeter output really is the key to their versatility.

That said, I would not say "no" to any if your options really. I love the accurate and neutral sound offered by Ascend. SVSound's SBS-01 speakers are probably my favorite $1000 5.1 speaker package. RBH has that signature clarity and midrange purity and the newer HSU speakers seem to be excellent as well.

The HSU speakers are the only ones I have not heard. I was no fan of their first gen speakers, but the new ones have garnered much more praise, so there's every reason to believe they are indeed better.

All of that said, I just keep coming back to the Emotiva speakers as being particularly well suited to your needs. Really, in such a situation, that is what it's all about. You can't really go "wrong" here and that's a great thing! Whether you chose Ascend, SVS, RBH, HSU, Axiom, Emotiva or perhaps even some other high quality brand, I'd be surprised if you were outright unhappy with just about any of them. When that is the case though, I look for any little detail that might put one particular offering over the others. It's not a clear cut case of "better" and "worse". It's more like, "these are all good choices, but the Emotiva speakers, IMO, have just a little advantage because they address a specific issue that you are likely to face".

Best of luck in your decision! If it were my money and I faced the same room and future plans, I would chose the Emotiva speakers. But if I wound up with one of the other brands, I wouldn't complain

 

[ack_bak]

Well, my recommendation remains the same: the Emotiva ERM-1s. The price is right, their performance is excellent and they are particularly well suited to your eventual acoustically transparent screen setup and, in the mean time, will also sound great with your current screen. Being able to adjust their mid-bass and tweeter output really is the key to their versatility.

That said, I would not say "no" to any if your options really. I love the accurate and neutral sound offered by Ascend. SVSound's SBS-01 speakers are probably my favorite $1000 5.1 speaker package. RBH has that signature clarity and midrange purity and the newer HSU speakers seem to be excellent as well.

The HSU speakers are the only ones I have not heard. I was no fan of their first gen speakers, but the new ones have garnered much more praise, so there's every reason to believe they are indeed better.

All of that said, I just keep coming back to the Emotiva speakers as being particularly well suited to your needs. Really, in such a situation, that is what it's all about. You can't really go "wrong" here and that's a great thing! Whether you chose Ascend, SVS, RBH, HSU, Axiom, Emotiva or perhaps even some other high quality brand, I'd be surprised if you were outright unhappy with just about any of them. When that is the case though, I look for any little detail that might put one particular offering over the others. It's not a clear cut case of "better" and "worse". It's more like, "these are all good choices, but the Emotiva speakers, IMO, have just a little advantage because they address a specific issue that you are likely to face".

Best of luck in your decision! If it were my money and I faced the same room and future plans, I would chose the Emotiva speakers. But if I wound up with one of the other brands, I wouldn't complain

I really appreciate your feedback as well as others in this thread. I did quite a bit of research on sealed vs ported speakers and the consensus seems is that all ported speakers are not alike. Some can be placed close to a wall (within a few inches) and some will need to be placed 12"+. Even after discussing the placement of the HSU speakers with an engineer, I was still concerned after their owners manual for these speakers shows ideal placement at least 27" from the back wall. Clearly any speaker will most likely sound better with ideal placement, but I was simply concerned with the HSU's rear porting and further research actually could have the HSU speaker within 7-8" of the wall. It probably would have been fine and sounded great since my subwoofer will be handling the vast majority of the bass. But... The fact that I cannot actually test the HSU with an AT screen false wall in my room within their 30 day satisfaction guarantee was a dealbreaker for me.

So I really focused on sealed speakers. And I seemed sold on the SVS but I kept coming back to the Emotive ERM-1 and their flexibility, performance, and price. The Emotiva, at least on paper, has better frequency response, better efficiency, can handle more power (and I am sure I will be upgrading to a pre/pro down the road), and better tweater and boundry compensation. Price wise it was about a wash. The SVS speakers would have been about $50 cheaper.

So I went with the Emotiva speakers. It was a tough call. I think the SVS SCS-01 speakers or the HSU speakers would have been a great fit as well, but overall I came to the same conclusion as your recommendation. The Emotiva's seem to offer me more for my money based on my room/placement conditions.

So now I am really pumped! I am very interested in hearing these speakers next to my old Polks.

I will report back after they are hooked up and I have done some room calibration and testing.

Thanks to everyone who assisted!

 

[FirstReflection]

Congratulations! It's always a bit of a rush when you hit that "submit order" button, isn't it?

I think you will be very pleased with the performance of the Emotiva speakers. Specs certainly do not tell the whole story, but in this case, the impressive specs do line up with impressive sound! I've always found Polk speakers to have a pleasant, but less than stellar sound quality. You should notice improved clarity and detail right away. The real treat though is the more subtle improvement. The Emotiva speakers can provide a truly seemless front soundstage. You will notice that during pans across the front, the timbre and voice of the sound remain completely unchanged as the panning sound moves from left to centre to right, or vice versa. Sometimes you might not take particular notice of this effect because it simply sounds seemless and exactly the way it should! But rest assured that when you visit a friend's house, his less than seemless front pans will stick out like a sore thumb to you

I have one bit of advice: play around with the tweeter cut/boost switch. I have found that it often helps to say, cut the left and right speakers' tweeter level while leaving the centre's at neutral; or to boost the centre while leaving the left and right neutral. I believe this is because the left and right speakers are often quite close to a side wall in many setups, and I think the early reflections may increase the perceived output of the left and right channels while the centre sounds a tad subdued by comparison. I can't predict what will work best in your setup, but experiment a bit to really dial in that perfect, seemless blend across the front!

Enjoy your new speakers! I think you're going to love them!

 

[ack_bak]

I may have hit a snafu.. My Onkyo 605 receiver is rated for 6-8 ohm speakers. My current speakers (both fronts and surrounds) are rated at 8ohms and the Emotiva's are rated at 4ohm.

They have not shipped the order yet and I am thinking I should cancel. I cannot afford to upgrade my receiver at this time. It looks like the SVS speaker and HSU speakers would both work since they are rated higher than 4ohm.

Thoughts from the experts?

 

[FirstReflection]

I may have hit a snafu.. My Onkyo 605 receiver is rated for 6-8 ohm speakers. My current speakers (both fronts and surrounds) are rated at 8ohms and the Emotiva's are rated at 4ohm.

They have not shipped the order yet and I am thinking I should cancel. I cannot afford to upgrade my receiver at this time. It looks like the SVS speaker and HSU speakers would both work since they are rated higher than 4ohm.

Thoughts from the experts?

It is not a problem. The Emotiva speakers are very steady in their impedance and do not really present a very difficult load. Emotiva is very conservative in their specs and other manufacturers would have likely rated the ERM-1 as 6 Ohm speakers.

The Onkyo 605 perfectly capable of driving the ERM-1 speakers. The ERM-1 do have the ability to use quite a bit more power if you ever have the opportunity to upgrade in the future, but you are in no danger or anything with your current 605 receiver

 

[ack_bak]

It is not a problem. The Emotiva speakers are very steady in their impedance and do not really present a very difficult load. Emotiva is very conservative in their specs and other manufacturers would have likely rated the ERM-1 as 6 Ohm speakers.

The Onkyo 605 perfectly capable of driving the ERM-1 speakers. The ERM-1 do have the ability to use quite a bit more power if you ever have the opportunity to upgrade in the future, but you are in no danger or anything with your current 605 receiver

Well that is a little more reassuring, but I am a little worried that the 605 will be underpowered. I do like to crank movies when nobody else is home

I sent an email to Emotiva regarding the speaker and receiver ohms, and will see what they say. I don't want to void any warranties either if it should cause any issues.