Software ? - Alternative to MovieMaker

[itschris]

Hey guys, my daughter had to periodically do video projects for her IB program. Her and two of her friends spend countless hours on an amazing project that just blew me away in it's sophistication and quality.

They used MovieMake, but when finished, they could not save it into a movie file. I spent a solid 5 hours working on it trying every fix I could find on the web about this surprisingly common problem.

Anyway, I'm hoping to find another program that is just as good as Microsoft MovieMaker so we don't run into these issues again. It doesn't have to be free, but hopefully not hundreds of dollars either. Thanks in advance.

 

[Nemo128]

I might be able to help with the WMM problem. I personally think WMM is an incredibly powerful solution, especially for one that comes free with Windows.

Nero's bundled package for video editing is also very nice and user friendly. But back to the matter, what problem with WMM did you run into exactly? If you have the WMM project saved, I'm sure we can make it work.

 

[itschris]

I might be able to help with the WMM problem. I personally think WMM is an incredibly powerful solution, especially for one that comes free with Windows.

Nero's bundled package for video editing is also very nice and user friendly. But back to the matter, what problem with WMM did you run into exactly? If you have the WMM project saved, I'm sure we can make it work.

Thanks Nemo. I get that message: "Windows Movie Maker cannot save the movie to the specified location. Verify that the original source files used in your movie are still available, that the saving location is still available, and that there is enough free disk space available, and then try again."

I've been here: http://www.papajohn.org/MM2-Issues-CantSaveMovie.html and tried the fixes.

To summarize:
1) I've installed service pack 3
2) Reinstalled windows media player
3) Verified my dll is up to date
4) Have plenty of disc space
5) All source files are working
6) All files are either WAV or WMV or MOV... not compressed MP3's
7) and about 20 other things

 

[Nemo128]

Ok, when you do Publish As, what format are you specifying, or does it not let you get even that far? Also, how much hard drive space is available, and what is the combined total of all the source files?

The way WMM uses hard drive space, you can't trust their estimated file sizes for the final. Not saying that's the problem, just a general FYI.

 

[itschris]

Ok, when you do Publish As, what format are you specifying, or does it not let you get even that far? Also, how much hard drive space is available, and what is the combined total of all the source files?

The way WMM uses hard drive space, you can't trust their estimated file sizes for the final. Not saying that's the problem, just a general FYI.

Don't even get that far. I tell it to save to the hard drive, I select the best quality that's recommended (though I even tried the pocket pc version). It tells me I need 320mb, I have 450 gig available. I click ok and it sits while it's "estimates" than it'll tell me it'll take 2250 minutes to save, sit there for about 60 seconds than the message I posted above comes up. I've even tried splitting the project and save just small parts... to no avail.

 

[Nemo128]

Don't even get that far. I tell it to save to the hard drive, I select the best quality that's recommended (though I even tried the pocket pc version). It tells me I need 320mb, I have 450 gig available. I click ok and it sits while it's "estimates" than it'll tell me it'll take 2250 minutes to save, sit there for about 60 seconds than the message I posted above comes up. I've even tried splitting the project and save just small parts... to no avail.

Ok, how much RAM do you have? Based on it telling you 2250 minutes, I'm thinking that your source files don't fit in your RAM and it's faulting. One possible workaround is to specify your virtual RAMdisk. Usually 2.5-3x your RAM size is best.

But 320MB on your final file means your source files shouldn't be that big, so that may not be an issue. Try, for kicks, selecting Publish Movie from File or Publish To on the left menu bar, and use the CD/DVD/disc (whatever it is) option. Let me know the results of that.

If you want another application, I do suggest Nero. I find it very easy and intuitive.

 

[itschris]

Ok, how much RAM do you have? Based on it telling you 2250 minutes, I'm thinking that your source files don't fit in your RAM and it's faulting. One possible workaround is to specify your virtual RAMdisk. Usually 2.5-3x your RAM size is best.

But 320MB on your final file means your source files shouldn't be that big, so that may not be an issue. Try, for kicks, selecting Publish Movie from File or Publish To on the left menu bar, and use the CD/DVD/disc (whatever it is) option. Let me know the results of that.

If you want another application, I do suggest Nero. I find it very easy and intuitive.

I had tried adjusting virtual ram to it's max to now avail. I have 1gig of RAM. I can't burn to disc because it says I don't have a recordable cd drive present though I do (another common issue with MM). I've tried just about everything.

Is Nero as good as MovieMaker? Can you do the same things with it or does it lack some capabilities?

 

[itschris]

Ok, how much RAM do you have? Based on it telling you 2250 minutes, I'm thinking that your source files don't fit in your RAM and it's faulting. One possible workaround is to specify your virtual RAMdisk. Usually 2.5-3x your RAM size is best.

But 320MB on your final file means your source files shouldn't be that big, so that may not be an issue. Try, for kicks, selecting Publish Movie from File or Publish To on the left menu bar, and use the CD/DVD/disc (whatever it is) option. Let me know the results of that.

If you want another application, I do suggest Nero. I find it very easy and intuitive.

btw - I really appreciate the effort. I can't Thank or Chicklet due to firewall issues, but I hit you later when I get home.

 

[Nemo128]

I had tried adjusting virtual ram to it's max to now avail. I have 1gig of RAM. I can't burn to disc because it says I don't have a recordable cd drive present though I do (another common issue with MM). I've tried just about everything.

Is Nero as good as MovieMaker? Can you do the same things with it or does it lack some capabilities?

Actually your 1GB could be limiting it now that I know that. Your RAM size should be at least the size of your source files + the estimated output + your pre-WMM process size + 512MB in XP or 1GB in Vista. My guesstimate from your final estimate tells me you need at least 2GB for a reliable encoding in XP.

WMM never makes that known, neither does MS or just about any site, but it's one of those unknown limitations. Also, try to never set your vRAM size higher than 8192MB, you'll probably just make the system perform worse if it's higher than that.

If WMM can't burn a disc for you, I suspect a deeper problem. WMM in Vista uses the integrated disc authoring service to burn discs. Make sure your Device Man is identifying it as an R or RW type drive, and see if you can Right Click -> Send To some files to your optical drive.

Nero honestly is a better authoring software. It has the same functionality plus much more. If you have any questions specifically about it, ask away, I use it a bit to compile TV episodes to Video DVDs (vob files). I wouldn't want you to purchase it unless you're sure it is the solution you want.

 

[itschris]

Actually your 1GB could be limiting it now that I know that. Your RAM size should be at least the size of your source files + the estimated output + your pre-WMM process size + 512MB in XP or 1GB in Vista. My guesstimate from your final estimate tells me you need at least 2GB for a reliable encoding in XP.

WMM never makes that known, neither does MS or just about any site, but it's one of those unknown limitations. Also, try to never set your vRAM size higher than 8192MB, you'll probably just make the system perform worse if it's higher than that.

If WMM can't burn a disc for you, I suspect a deeper problem. WMM in Vista uses the integrated disc authoring service to burn discs. Make sure your Device Man is identifying it as an R or RW type drive, and see if you can Right Click -> Send To some files to your optical drive.

Nero honestly is a better authoring software. It has the same functionality plus much more. If you have any questions specifically about it, ask away, I use it a bit to compile TV episodes to Video DVDs (vob files). I wouldn't want you to purchase it unless you're sure it is the solution you want.

I don't think it's a RAM issue because if I try to save just part of it say... 20% of the project, it still doesn't work. By burners work fine and are id'd correctly... they just don't work in MM. I've read that this is a typical probelm due to some other conflict.

I'm just sorda giving up at this point, but I'll probably give Nero a shot. I just need it so that the kids can record and import their video clips, add pictures and other videos and be able to have soundtracks playing in the background. They need to be able to easily put all these different components together in a timeline so they can create their project.

 

[Nemo128]

Yeah, you can do that with Nero.

You could always format c: Windows.

 

[itschris]

Seriously... I came really close to chucking the whole thing into the pool!

So with Nero, you can basically import in all your different files like WAV's, WMV's, MOV's, MP3s, etc, then drag them to a timeline to create a multi-media video... correct?

For instance, Christina's intro has some music playing in the background while the screen displays a series of individual pics and some short video clips. She's able to add transitions and adjust speed and all that. I'm assuming Nero works in similar fashion. correct?

It's only $60 but I just want to have a good idea that it will do what she needs it to.

 

[Nemo128]

Seriously... I came really close to chucking the whole thing into the pool!

So with Nero, you can basically import in all your different files like WAV's, WMV's, MOV's, MP3s, etc, then drag them to a timeline to create a multi-media video... correct?

For instance, Christina's intro has some music playing in the background while the screen displays a series of individual pics and some short video clips. She's able to add transitions and adjust speed and all that. I'm assuming Nero works in similar fashion. correct?

It's only $60 but I just want to have a good idea that it will do what she needs it to.

Honestly, if you can back up your stuff and you've got your own Windows license and disc, I'd suggest a wipe. Without seeing it myself, I can't guide you well to fixing it, but your WMM is defly borked. An hour of time could be worth saving the $60.

As for Nero, it has its own internal codecs to handle a lot of formats, including those you listed. HOWEVER, if you have your own codecs or codec pack installed, it can cause some serious issues. Codec issues you don't want to be diagnosing, it's a PiTA.

If I remember correctly, you first need to convert your source files using Nero. Then you can use them as you want. Dropping them in Nero Vision takes care of this if I remember correctly.

I can't strongly enough recommend their trial download on their website. It is fully functional for enough time to test your daughter's creation. If she doesn't like it or it doesn't work as desired, no money wasted. If it's good for you, I'm glad Nero has another believer.

 

[lsiberian]

Just to chime in a virtual memory thing. I highly suggest you get and use a Readyboost capable flash drive. You can pick on up at home depot for around 20 bucks. And it's the best performance boost you can make IMO. I would go into why, but I don't want to flood you with computer terminology. But the difference in access speed between the readyboost drive and your hard drive is huge.

 

[itschris]

Just to chime in a virtual memory thing. I highly suggest you get and use a Readyboost capable flash drive. You can pick on up at home depot for around 20 bucks. And it's the best performance boost you can make IMO. I would go into why, but I don't want to flood you with computer terminology. But the difference in access speed between the readyboost drive and your hard drive is huge.

Welcome to the thread!!!! Nemo and I had our own gig going on. By all means flood away. I pretty technical with computers so I like this kind of stuff. I used to have a side business doing consulting (who hasn't at some point?) but have just been out of the nitty gritty for awhile.

I have several flash drives but I'm assuming that's not what you're talking about.

 

[itschris]

Honestly, if you can back up your stuff and you've got your own Windows license and disc, I'd suggest a wipe. Without seeing it myself, I can't guide you well to fixing it, but your WMM is defly borked. An hour of time could be worth saving the $60.

As for Nero, it has its own internal codecs to handle a lot of formats, including those you listed. HOWEVER, if you have your own codecs or codec pack installed, it can cause some serious issues. Codec issues you don't want to be diagnosing, it's a PiTA.

If I remember correctly, you first need to convert your source files using Nero. Then you can use them as you want. Dropping them in Nero Vision takes care of this if I remember correctly.

I can't strongly enough recommend their trial download on their website. It is fully functional for enough time to test your daughter's creation. If she doesn't like it or it doesn't work as desired, no money wasted. If it's good for you, I'm glad Nero has another believer.

I did install the Windows Codec pack... is that the source of conflicts with Nero you're talking about? I did download the trail version last night, but it took forever to install and I got tired and gave up. I had some odd things running that had my CPU cranking at 100%. I check the processes frequently to make sure there's nothing sinister going on and there usually nothing but a coulple SVCHOST things that run on start up but then everything quiets down . I wasn't sure what these new ones were so I didn't want to kill them and I was too tired to care. Nothing popped on the active scanning so I wasn't too terribly concerned though I'll afford it all more time this weekend.

I've thought about wiping my hard drive... I actually think it's a smart thing to do once in awhile to shake the fleas if you will, but it's a pita. I hate setting everything backup, and having to configure things back to the way I like them, and I always seem to forget to move something from some weird folder to get backed up. I'm just not as efficient and on top of things like I used to be and should be.

I'm still thinking about a new PC. I really like those new touchscreen HP's.

 

[Nemo128]

ReadyBoost drives are nice, if you have a spare USB header inside your computer and you get the right one. Many of them tout huge performance numbers but actually perform like crap.

Also, the comparable price for actual RAM now makes ReadyBoost drives less worthwhile. Picking up 4GB of real DDR2 for $20 on sale would yield a much better performance increase than $15 for 4GB in a ReadyBoost drive. Also, I believe it's still the case that the biggest addressable memory space for ReadyBoost is 4GB, even if you have a 32GB drive handy. The biggest benefit you'll see from those is OS load times, that's all they're really great at. To make Vista come back from power down quicker.

There's also hard drive hype in the form of solid state discs and the Western Digital Raptor line. I run a 150GB VelociRaptor as my boot drive, and I honestly see no benefit to it. It shaves a few seconds off my application load times and cost me over $1/GB. Solid state discs are even worse in terms of perf/$. Me, I'm stupid when it comes to my computers. I'll buy ridiculously overpriced stuff and even overclock the heck out of it just to squeeze every raytracing second out of Max, for example. But, for emphasis, I'M STUPID.

Now I can't only say negative things. For someone with 2GB or less RAM, no open RAM slots, running 32bit Vista, and an available USB2 port or header, it's a fantastic option to increase performance.

 

[Nemo128]

I did install the Windows Codec pack... is that the source of conflicts with Nero you're talking about? I did download the trail version last night, but it took forever to install and I got tired and gave up. I had some odd things running that had my CPU cranking at 100%.

Windows Codec Pack, and Vista Codec Pack, both good options, but yeah, Nero can start conflicts. I'd suggest a wipe. Which AV/security suite/firewall are you using?

I've thought about wiping my hard drive... I actually think it's a smart thing to do once in awhile to shake the fleas if you will, but it's a pita. I hate setting everything backup, and having to configure things back to the way I like them, and I always seem to forget to move something from some weird folder to get backed up. I'm just not as efficient and on top of things like I used to be and should be.

Backing up is always the worst. That's why I run a RAID5 with 2.5TB for all my storage. The Raptor only holds program installs and the OS. You should look into creating your own slipstream disc so you can perform your clean installs faster. I'm an XP guy, I gave Vista 6 months to grow on me and I wound up putting XP64 back on my box.

Mind you, I want to upgrade my array to 4 1TB+ drives... migrating all that data is going to be a PiTA... but I digress...

I'm still thinking about a new PC. I really like those new touchscreen HP's.

I have an HP TX2510US laptop. 12.1" touchscreen. If the touchscreen on the desktop models is similar, you will be very pleased. The digitizer built into the screen is precise and very smooth. I have to run Vista on this thing because HP only has official drivers for Vista, although some ingenious people put together drivers for XP. I run a live Linux distro called Slax on it pretty often, and everything is supported without issue except the touchscreen.

 

[itschris]

I haven't even cracked my case to see what I have for memory slots. I'll do that this weekend and tell you exactly what I have and you can tell me exactly what to get for memory.

On the MM thing... I read last night that if you have a lot of source files in multiple locations, it can cause issues when compiliing to the movie file. The girls were really good at first at keeping the source files in one spot, but as the project wore on they got lazy and had source files strewn from 10-12 different unrelated folders.

I have Trend Micro doing all my virus/firewall stuff and I have XP on my machine. I honestly don't even know what CPU I have anymore. The computer is about 5 years old... maybe 6. I have highend laptops from work and I got so burned out on the computer stuff that for sometime I really only used for web browsing. Getting back from the office, I found the last thing I wanted to do was turn on a computer and "do" stuff.

I'm getting back into it though. I'm still figuring on an HTPC but haven't figured out the best way to go about. I'd like to have an HTPC in my cabinet hooked up to everything, but have a touchscreen laptop or the bigger HP touchscreen desktop as the controller if you will running Media Center, but accessing files on the "media server" in the cabinet. That way, I don't have to have the TV on to use it.

With Nero, when you say it has to convert the files, what exactly do you mean? If I have a .MOV, .WAV, and .WMV's, can I just add them to the project or do I have convert them into a "NERO" file?

 

[lsiberian]

ReadyBoost drives are nice, if you have a spare USB header inside your computer and you get the right one. Many of them tout huge performance numbers but actually perform like crap.

Also, the comparable price for actual RAM now makes ReadyBoost drives less worthwhile. Picking up 4GB of real DDR2 for $20 on sale would yield a much better performance increase than $15 for 4GB in a ReadyBoost drive. Also, I believe it's still the case that the biggest addressable memory space for ReadyBoost is 4GB, even if you have a 32GB drive handy. The biggest benefit you'll see from those is OS load times, that's all they're really great at. To make Vista come back from power down quicker.

There's also hard drive hype in the form of solid state discs and the Western Digital Raptor line. I run a 150GB VelociRaptor as my boot drive, and I honestly see no benefit to it. It shaves a few seconds off my application load times and cost me over $1/GB. Solid state discs are even worse in terms of perf/$. Me, I'm stupid when it comes to my computers. I'll buy ridiculously overpriced stuff and even overclock the heck out of it just to squeeze every raytracing second out of Max, for example. But, for emphasis, I'M STUPID.

Now I can't only say negative things. For someone with 2GB or less RAM, no open RAM slots, running 32bit Vista, and an available USB2 port or header, it's a fantastic option to increase performance.

Actually solid state is significantly faster than a hard drive. Memory is 1000 times faster than a hard drive as memory access takes microseconds and hard drive access takes milliseconds. So a 4 gig page file on a flash drive will outperfrom one on a traditional hard drive. Now interfacing can cause issues, but still it's a substantial upgrade.

Take into consideration that a 32bit architecture can only have 4 gigs of memory and it's basically doubling your memory. True benefits are only seen when doing significant multi-tasking. But they are there.

Plus the technology is still in it's infancy so to speak.

FYI any flash drive can be used for the page file. Setting this up requires you to manually configure your virtual memory, but it's trivial to a windows savvy person.

Solid state is expensive though and hard drives are good enough for storage IMO so I don't advocate a full solid state approach except where performance is critical.

Of course upgrading cache, and memory first is preferred. As they are they are even faster than solid state.