Dedicated HT 7.2 System - Klipsch? $11K system, but what could I do with $20K system?

[Zigrivers]

Hi guys -

I need some help/recommendations on the sound system I'm putting into our new dedicated home theater.

First up, the room:

1. Basement room, 18' X 20' by 8' ceiling
2. Projector (JVC RS20 or Epson 7500UB) with 130" AT Screen (fronts will go behind the screen)
3. Two rows of six with back row on an 18" riser
4. I will be acoustically treating the room

I got some help from a local HT dealer on the sound system and it sounds okay, but after thinking about it I want to make sure that I spend/invest more in my sound system to get something that will last me for years and provide a ton of enjoyment (and so I won't feel like I'm missing something, or have any regrets about not spending a little more to get the better system).

Here is the sound system the HT dealer is suggesting:

• AV Receiver: Denon AVR-4308CI
• Sub Amp: Klipsch KA-1000-THX
• Front speakers: Klipsch KL-6504-THX
• 2 Subs: Klipsch KW-120-THX
• Ceiling mount surrounds: Klipsch KS-7502-THX
• Power management: Panamax 5400-PM

The speaker arrangement/setup is one that I want to keep if possible - all speakers are essentially hidden as the three fronts are behind the screen and the surrounds are in the ceiling. The subs are the only thing that will be visible - one sub on the floor on either side of the screen.

Based on my pricing research I can get the above audio system for around $11.5K.

If I could spend as much as $20K on the sound system, what would you guys recommend given the situation I've described above?

Also, if you can, estimate approximately how much we would be improving the listening experience with your recommendations. This will really help me from a cost justification stand-point.

Construction is under way, so I've got about a week before I will need to start making decisions and placing orders.

I appreciate any help and advice you guys can provide. These forums are awesome!

Thank you!

 

[walter duque]

This would make you king of the hill.
http://www.cinepro.com/reviews/HTM-EVO2-May05Review.pdf

 

[calnbs]

I read that these are suppose to be really good. Haven't heard them so I can't say much but they do receive very good review:

JTR:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1062777&highlight=jtr

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1112484&highlight=jtr

Seaton Sound Catalysts:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1094517&highlight=jtr

 

[agarwalro]

In your price range speakers are so preference driven that I will steer clear of making a recommendation... all I can say is demo, demo, demo, demo. Your budget gives you limitless potential here and make the 7.2 speakers at least 60% of your complete budget. Now for the easy stuff

Fronts L.C.R - RBH T1/R
I know, I know... just could not help myself.

Sub - 2x SVS PC-13 Ultra
Why PC and not PB? Because you get the same performance for less money and since you will have a dedicated HT, their smaller footprint makes them easier to locate for better integration. The only down side from my perspective is that the cylinders are not as visually appealing as the boxes.

Amp - Bryston 6B SST.
This leaves enough power in the 4308CI to handle the remainder of the channels.

 

[GlocksRock]

Regardless of your budget, I would look at the SVS MTS line of speakers, they are very nice and have very high quality components, and get an Ultra sub to match.

 

[lsiberian]

Hi guys -

I need some help/recommendations on the sound system I'm putting into our new dedicated home theater.

First up, the room:

1. Basement room, 18' X 20' by 8' ceiling
2. Projector (JVC RS20 or Epson 7500UB) with 130" AT Screen (fronts will go behind the screen)
3. Two rows of six with back row on an 18" riser
4. I will be acoustically treating the room

I got some help from a local HT dealer on the sound system and it sounds okay, but after thinking about it I want to make sure that I spend/invest more in my sound system to get something that will last me for years and provide a ton of enjoyment (and so I won't feel like I'm missing something, or have any regrets about not spending a little more to get the better system).

Here is the sound system the HT dealer is suggesting:

• AV Receiver: Denon AVR-4308CI
• Sub Amp: Klipsch KA-1000-THX
• Front speakers: Klipsch KL-6504-THX
• 2 Subs: Klipsch KW-120-THX
• Ceiling mount surrounds: Klipsch KS-7502-THX
• Power management: Panamax 5400-PM

The speaker arrangement/setup is one that I want to keep if possible - all speakers are essentially hidden as the three fronts are behind the screen and the surrounds are in the ceiling. The subs are the only thing that will be visible - one sub on the floor on either side of the screen.

Based on my pricing research I can get the above audio system for around $11.5K.

If I could spend as much as $20K on the sound system, what would you guys recommend given the situation I've described above?

Also, if you can, estimate approximately how much we would be improving the listening experience with your recommendations. This will really help me from a cost justification stand-point.

Construction is under way, so I've got about a week before I will need to start making decisions and placing orders.

I appreciate any help and advice you guys can provide. These forums are awesome!

Thank you!

If you are hand I suggest a DIY approach for all speakers and subs.

On top of that I suggest you pick up 3 Behringer DcX 2496s for processing get a seven channel amp and 2 Behringer Ep2500s.

Get a 7 channel pre-pro. Onkyo makes a very nice one.

For subs build dual Audio Pulse 15"

For speakers I suggest you pick up seas drivers and build some acoustically neutral boxes. This requires significant bracing but nets the best SQ. Another option is to build Thor TLs for the front sound stage and use TLS Guys center. With your budget we can build a very sick home theater. For a PJ I suggest you get a JVC. They are amazing. Pair it with a Brilliant White Carada Screen

If necessary you can probably hire out the cabinets.

The system I'm talking about is capable of incredible sound and can be adjusted with the DCXs to your tastes.

 

[bandphan]

Ivè heard the system you are looking at and it sounded very good. Having said that, the JTRs will blow them away in terms of shear performance and the klipsch subs require 2 to get the THX cert. You can achieve way more with other subs for the same price or less. I would also recommend an active crossover for dual subs.

 

[MatthewB.]

For a 20,000 budget, I would stay clear of recievers (even top of the line Denons) and start looking at Preamps and amplifiers to bring your theater to the next level. As far as speakers go, as mentioned your best bet is to Demo, Demo and Demo, because what I love you may hate and that's with anybody. I would also hire a contractor to install an IB (Infinate Baffle) sub system rather than going with standard box subs. the cool thing about IB subs is they are hidden from view (no boxes) and they play deeper and louder than any sub out there, inlcuding the SVS PB13 Ultra. In fact you can have a IB system with four 15" drivers and amplifiers to drive them for around 1,500 Installation maybe another 500.00 by a qualified contractor or DIY. When you get into the 20K range, your options open way up and you get far better performance.

 

[Mtn. Steel]

This would make you king of the hill.
http://www.cinepro.com/reviews/HTM-EVO2-May05Review.pdf

I think I just got wood!!!!!

 

[AVRat]

Hey folks, he's using in-walls. Phase Tech Darts system including amplification and room correction (Audyssey Pro) can be had for under $20K and all you need is a decent pre-pro/receiver for processing.
http://www.phasetech.com/darts-new.html
http://www.hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/1006phasedarts/
http://www.audioholics.com/news/trade-show-coverage/2007-cedia-expo/phase-technology-darts

Definitely go with different subs like the SVS Plus/Ultra or Epik Dynasty/Conquest.

BTW, why is he suggesting in-ceiling surrounds? The in-walls would be my choice. (KS-7800)

 

[jostenmeat]

1. Basement room, 18' X 20' by 8' ceiling
2. Projector (JVC RS20 or Epson 7500UB) with 130" AT Screen (fronts will go behind the screen)
3. Two rows of six with back row on an 18" riser
4. I will be acoustically treating the room

While L & W are similar at 18/20, lengthwise setup is generally recommended. If so, does 18' fit in 6 HT seats? Must be a tight fit?

Are you using a 16:9 screen, or is it an anamorphic setup? If 16:9, and depending on the distance between viewers and screen, as well as distance between rows, you might want higher than an 18" riser. You'll most likely be fine, but you can build a higher one, even with 8' ceiling. (Some people actually rather not recline, and happen to have spiky hair-do's!). Edit: screen is 63" if 16:9, or 48" if 2.35:1.

I vote for the RS20. It's the class leader.

• AV Receiver: Denon AVR-4308CI
• Sub Amp: Klipsch KA-1000-THX
• Front speakers: Klipsch KL-6504-THX
• 2 Subs: Klipsch KW-120-THX
• Ceiling mount surrounds: Klipsch KS-7502-THX
• Power management: Panamax 5400-PM

I agree with Matthew B in getting a pre/pro + amp. OTOH, I sure wouldn't mind a 5308 as a pre/pro, nevertheless, you can spend a lot less than that. The Integra 9.9/Onkyo 886 are the sweetspot midlevel value, but you can spend more on stuff like Anthem, or yeah, Denon. Personally, I'd be very curious about the upcoming Outlaw. Add amp of choice.

The speaker arrangement/setup is one that I want to keep if possible - all speakers are essentially hidden as the three fronts are behind the screen and the surrounds are in the ceiling. The subs are the only thing that will be visible - one sub on the floor on either side of the screen.

Please use three upright identical speakers behind screen. I've already explained why a bazillion times, probably even just in the last couple of days, so forgive me for not expounding at the moment.

While certainly less bang for buck, but if hidden is key for you, and it seems to be, I'd look into dual JLA IWS at msrp of $7.5k. You would give up considerable extension, and spend more, but I wanted to let you be aware. You could remedy the lack of extension, perhaps, with the use of hidden transducers attached to the seats, ala Buttkicker or Earthquake.

http://home.jlaudio.com/jlaudio_pages.php?page_id=42

If I could spend as much as $20K on the sound system, what would you guys recommend given the situation I've described above?

The JTRs should be able to handle anything you ever throw at them. The question is if dynamics and SPL are key ingredients for you. If you are fine with moderate volumes, below reference, I don't think there really is a substitute for auditioning and choosing on your own. Sure, maybe 1/100 audioholics could read a set of graphs, understand them, choose accordingly, and that's only if that set of graphs were available. JMO atm. That all said, if this is 100% HT, I think the JTR would be a good blind pick.

Also, if you can, estimate approximately how much we would be improving the listening experience with your recommendations. This will really help me from a cost justification stand-point.

Big can of worms.

 

[bandphan]

Hey folks, he's using in-walls. Phase Tech Darts system including amplification and room correction (Audyssey Pro) can be had for under $20K and all you need is a decent pre-pro/receiver for processing.
http://www.phasetech.com/darts-new.html
http://www.hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/1006phasedarts/
http://www.audioholics.com/news/trade-show-coverage/2007-cedia-expo/phase-technology-darts

Definitely go with different subs like the SVS Plus/Ultra or Epik Dynasty/Conquest.

BTW, why is he suggesting in-ceiling surrounds? The in-walls would be my choice. (KS-7800)

for the price of the OPs budget you can build the wall out 9" and install the JTRs

 

[Zigrivers]

Decision made - Mark Seaton's Catalysts, Submersive & Sparks

Well guys, first of all I want to thank everyone for the responses here and the PMs in helping me check out other systems.

I've spent probably a total of 20 hours or more researching, reading and talking to folks. I received a lot of advice and suggestions and at the end of my research I ended up selecting a complete system from Mark. The 7.2 system I will end up with in 3 to 4 weeks will be:

• Catalysts for my LCR
• 2 Submersives
• Sparks for my surround system

I ended up spending a bit more than I wanted to, but after all of my research (and feeling like I could splurge on myself) I really felt like I wouldn't be happy unless I selected this system.

Mark has been fantastic to work with in every respect. I'm an entrepreneur like him, so that weighed into my decision as well - gotta love and appreciate what it takes to build a successful business and he definitely has what it takes.

So, now I'm going to have these amazing speakers and I would love some additional advice on what pre/pro you guys would recommend? Mark felt that the Integra 9.9 would do the job just fine, but I would definitely love to hear some other opinions in this area.

If you had this speaker system, what would you hook up to it?

Is there anything else, equipment-wise that I should be looking at to really round out my system?

BTW, you can check out the specs on these speakers here: Seaton Sound

Lastly, I'm going to need some help setting this amazing system up a month from now (crossing fingers and toes that the speakers will be here by then). Is there anyone in the Salt Lake City area that would be interested in helping me set the system up and providing some hands-on training of the system? I'd be happy to pay for your time.

Or, can anyone recommend someone that I can get in touch with?

Thanks again for everything - you guys are awesome.

 

[calnbs]

Congrats on your new speakers. They seem to be very awesome speakers. Let us know what you think of those speakers. Don't forget to give us your personal review when you get them.

 

[Davemcc]

Mark felt that the Integra 9.9 would do the job just fine, but I would definitely love to hear some other opinions in this area.

I would have to agree. The 9.9 should do the job perfectly. I don't know of any other products in it's price range that match it's abilities.

 

[cym_city]

Don't forget to take some pictures when your done.

 

[adwilk]

FWIW, the Klipsch THX setup is OBSCENELY disappointing. Their flagship reference stuff destroys it. If you really like the Klipsch sound (I think its awesome for HT) then get the RF83's, the RC64 and RS62s. They will run laps around the THX gear in my opinion and you'll spend less. The horns are basically the same. The crossover components in the Ref line are superior. That THX system is overpriced to simply boast "THX". Avoid Klipsch subs like male enhancement emails...

It sounds like you got a really nice setup.. congrats...

 

[agarwalro]

• Catalysts for my LCR
• 2 Submersives
• Sparks for my surround system

Nice purchases! Good to have sent someone down the right track.

The Sub looks and from the FR plot performs great! Very reasonable price too.

I am struggling to understand the $3500 per piece price tag for the Catalyst. IMHO, seems a bit high for a DIY project.

I am interested to know what amp is used in the catalyst. A DIY-ers dream come true...

 

[Mark Seaton]

Nice purchases! Good to have sent someone down the right track.

The Sub looks and from the FR plot performs great! Very reasonable price too.

I am struggling to understand the $3500 per piece price tag for the Catalyst. IMHO, seems a bit high for a DIY project.

I am interested to know what amp is used in the catalyst. A DIY-ers dream come true...

Hi agarwalro,

Thank you for the compliments on the SubMersive. The Catalysts are certainly a significant investment, although remember they have 3 ICEpower amplifier modules and DSP for each channel with the final package designed and assembled here in the states. The amplification is a major contributor to the price of the Catalyst, and this amplifier is not sold to the DIY community (the DSP interface is quite clunky, but effective). I would also point out there is a lot more into the planning, design and execution of the Catalyst than is implied in describing it as "a DIY project." In fact, the only part exactly available to a DIYer is the coaxial driver from B&C, where even there I'm likely to move to a custom version later this year.

I developed these out of a need for a speaker to fully enable the use of the subwoofers I was installing (especially where 2-4 are used in a room). Interest grew after many were impressed with the results, and while expensive, anything similarly capable either costs much more or was not developed with domestic use in mind. They are built in small quantities where I do all of the testing and QC of the speakers myself, often the assembly as well. While they aren't intended for everyone, there are very few turnkey products with comparable strengths and capabilities, let alone at a comparable price. The case of Zigrivers starting from scratch without amplification already paid for makes the powered speakers much more attractive and cost effective, as he will need no amplification in the rack, just XLR connections out of the surround processor.

 

[Zigrivers]

I'm actually tracking my theater's progress (as well as asking for advice/help) on the AVS forums here. I'll have lots of photos going there, but I will definitely do a full review of the speakers with photos as well in about 4 weeks (crossing fingers!) on these forums.

I've got a speaker mounting idea that I could use some input on when it comes to mounting the Sparks - my surrounds.

Don't forget to take some pictures when your done.