WmAx's Eclipse SW8200 12" Subwoofer?

[t3steve]

Yes
For some reason all the best drivers I've checked out (TC, audiophlse, Jl) are pretty low sensitivity. Someone else will have to explain why.

 

[t3steve]

I didn't take any construction photos, but here it is completed except for the grill




This is a pict I downloaded of the driver, massive motor.


Here is one I found of the cone damage that Chris warned about from overdriving the suspension

 

[lsiberian]

Yes
For some reason all the best drivers I've checked out (TC, audiophlse, Jl) are pretty low sensitivity. Someone else will have to explain why.

I can only theorize since I don't build drivers, but Moving a subwoofer would inherently require more power since it's a larger cone. The better sub material has greater strength probably to reduce cone distortion I know this is the case with a Kappa driver. The mass of a driver will give greater movement of air as it is moved of course this must be balanced with the acceleration of the cone, but a stronger cone with similar excursion will usually beat the SPL of a weaker cone. However the stronger cone will require greater force to be moved leading to the increased power requirement. F = MA. Though it will require greater force to move the cone. There are several ways to go about cone design and there are certainly other factors in the circuit.

 

[t3steve]

Quick analogy:
Corvette vs Honda civic
Even just crusin the vet burns more gas but when it is needed the power is there

 

[WmAx]

I didn't take any construction photos, but here it is completed except for the grill

I hope you immediately purchase a 2nd driver while they can still be found. This is so that you can later build a 2nd cabinet for stereo or distributed placement for perfect integration for use in a premium music reproduction system. This will insure that you have that future option.

-Chris

 

[Mika75]

I hope you immediately purchase a 2nd driver while they can still be found. This is so that you can later build a 2nd cabinet for stereo or distributed placement for perfect integration for use in a premium music reproduction system. This will insure that you have that future option.

-Chris

This SW8200 build is very tempting... I already have a power amp of 2x 450watts into 4 Ohm, I have the DCX, & I've found these drivers on sale for $369, I only need to build enclosures....what should I do !!?? is this a chance that comes but once in a lifetime

ps. Chris, can u tell me more about what other cabinets u recommend for this driver ?

 

[WmAx]

This SW8200 build is very tempting... I already have a power amp of 2x 450watts into 4 Ohm, I have the DCX, & I've found these drivers on sale for $369, I only need to build enclosures....what should I do !!?? is this a chance that comes but once in a lifetime

ps. Chris, can u tell me more about what other cabinets u recommend for this driver ?

I hope you do not mean $369 each. You should not pay more than $275 each for these drivers, and you may find some dealers selling them for $220.

I do not recommend anything other than sealed cabinets for this driver. It is not suited to ported/PR alignments.

450 Watts is the minimum power I recommend for these drivers. 800-1000 Watts is actually ideal if you wanted to extract the full performance of which these drivers are capable of producing.

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

This SW8200 build is very tempting... I already have a power amp of 2x 450watts into 4 Ohm, I have the DCX, & I've found these drivers on sale for $369, I only need to build enclosures....what should I do !!?? is this a chance that comes but once in a lifetime

ps. Chris, can u tell me more about what other cabinets u recommend for this driver ?

There are always opportunities to build great subs/speakers. There are several drivers capable of very good performance. It's all a matter of your goals and financial limitations

 

[t3steve]

There are always opportunities to build great subs/speakers. There are several drivers capable of very good performance. It's all a matter of your goals and financial limitations

Mika
The really great thing about the Eclipse SW8200 is that you are getting a TC Sounds LMS motor for only $250 compared to more than double that for comparable product. You can build a small (same size) sealed subwoofer of comparable sound quality using a different driver but it will cost a lot more.

 

[Mika75]

I hope you do not mean $369 each. You should not pay more than $275 each for these drivers, and you may find some dealers selling them for $220.

-Chris

Recommended retail price in Australia is $ 549, they are on special/clearance for $369 per driver.

To compare, the Tempest 15" sells for $349, and an 18" Maelstrom goes for $645

The Bash 500watt retails for $495

 

[WmAx]

Recommended retail price in Australia is $ 549, they are on special/clearance for $369 per driver.

To compare, the Tempest 15" sells for $349, and an 18" Maelstrom goes for $645

The Bash 500watt retails for $495

Sorry, I assumed you were in the U.S.A.

-Chris

 

[t3steve]

Just for fun I am modeling my subwoofer in WinISD Pro.
I applied the parametric EQ Fc=38Hz, Q=1, Gain=-2
I read some values off the 16Hz line graph from O Audio and to try to simulate it in the model I came up with a parametric eq fc=15, Q=2, Gain=8
It doesn't look quite right. Do you have a better sugestion.

It also show the driver exceeding Xmax around 26hz, 500watts??

 

[t3steve]

I am having trouble simulating the O Audio low freq eq so I just printed out the curve and added it by hand.
The subwoofer models as:
-2db @ 20Hz
-4db @ 16Hz
and flat from 25Hz on up.

As I said before I don't have a SPL Meter so I can't measure the actual response but it does sound good.

 

[Mika75]

ok...the deal I found has fallen thru as they only have one driver left in stock

I was told next weekend here in Aus they release the latest 12" SW8210 ...which as has been said, isn't in the same league as the TC Sounds designed 8200

 

[lsiberian]

Just for fun I am modeling my subwoofer in WinISD Pro.
I applied the parametric EQ Fc=38Hz, Q=1, Gain=-2
I read some values off the 16Hz line graph from O Audio and to try to simulate it in the model I came up with a parametric eq fc=15, Q=2, Gain=8
It doesn't look quite right. Do you have a better sugestion.

It also show the driver exceeding Xmax around 26hz, 500watts??

The issue is that the eq is actually increasing the wattage fed into the sub.

I believe the bash sub is only capable of 380 watts before it distorts badly. every 3db is twice the wattage. So a 3 db gain would be a double the wattage and would require the main signal to be 190 watts.

for and 6db gain you would need to have a main signal of 95 watts

for a 9db gain your main signal would be 42.5 watts.

Most subs are incapable of low lfe in a small box even with eq.

The easiest way to increase extension is to increase your box size. I believe the Kappa box has around 5 cubic ft of internal volume. So that should give you an idea of the largest box one should except for their sub. Also try folding the port around your box. This will allow you have nice large port with a low tuning. Giving you low rear port air velocity and more extension.

Remember to check you SPL levels. chances are they are around 110 or above. You won't listen at that level in your home. Chances are it will be between 70 to 90 db. Plus room gain is huge for LFE so less is required for more sound for an untreated room.

 

[WmAx]

ok...the deal I found has fallen thru as they only have one driver left in stock

I was told next weekend here in Aus they release the latest 12" SW8210 ...which as has been said, isn't in the same league as the TC Sounds designed 8200

Do NOT bother with the SW8210. It is no where near the quality of the SW8200. The SW8200 uses a state of the art TC Sounds LMS motor, where as the SW8210 uses a conventional motor (for drastic cost savings).

One possible option is to have someone from the states ship you a driver. You can PayPal the money to them. Do you know anyone that you trust in the states? I don't know if you would trust me, but I would be glad to ship you a driver. I would even add a layer of plywood around a 2nd box layer to protect it from heavy abuse during shipping.

-Chris