a sign of the times!!

vizionut

vizionut

Audioholic General
4 in the morning:D I wish i could make it out west again!!

edit that wishing i was on the river!! canoe on the truck right
 
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Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Until Avaserfi comes along and proves me wrong with academic articles and sociological studies, I'm going to say that most property crimes are poverty related. That makes it political since so many politicians seem to make a career of campaigning to end poverty. Yet the policies they enact appear determined to perpetuate or increase poverty as if never ending poverty were job security for career politicians. I would argue that the best way to decrease property crime is to create a healthy economy in which the greatest number of people can participate and gain the benefits. Yet that's not the focus of election campaigns or public policy so I don't see us getting there anytime soon. In the meantime, lock your doors and load your weapons.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
In the meantime, lock your doors and load your weapons.
In Canada that means to stand poised to unleash an ungodly slap shot right to the forehead of anybody stupid enough to step on your front porch unless of course it's the blessed and revered UPS guy. :)
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
In Canada that means to stand poised to unleash an ungodly slap shot right to the forehead of anybody stupid enough to step on your front porch unless of course it's the blessed and revered UPS guy. :)
You're right about that. Since I don't have the legal right to defend my family, property or my own life, I just have to lock my doors and hope nobody wants my stuff that badly.:mad:
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Didn't I tell you...I like these discussions.:p
You're good at 'em too. That kind of pisses me off because we're on different sides of the coin on a lot of things but your education and knowledge of current events combined make for some great posts ... even though they're wrong ... but they are still great posts. :)
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
Until Avaserfi comes along and proves me wrong with academic articles and sociological studies
Have no fear, I am here!

I'm going to say that most property crimes are poverty related.
I can't really argue with this statement, I just wrote a paper on it today, in fact. I will say that poverty is not really the root issue, instead, it is factors that create poverty, but that is being picky :D.

That makes it political since so many politicians seem to make a career of campaigning to end poverty. Yet the policies they enact appear determined to perpetuate or increase poverty as if never ending poverty were job security for career politicians.
Agreed.

I would argue that the best way to decrease property crime is to create a healthy economy in which the greatest number of people can participate and gain the benefits.
I would have to take some issue with that point. A healthy economy is great at reducing the total number of individuals who would commit crime, but there is a large amount of research that shows there are structural forms of marginalization which inhibit certain groups from attainment. So, I would elaborate and say that a healthy economy and a socially conscious government working to create a society of equal opportunity. This does not mean throwing money at a problem per say, but that is another discussion that should be had.

Now on to a larger issue. In the United States there seems to be this notion that crime is ubiquitous and getting worse. That is flat out wrong, blame the media for sensational reporting and political fear-mongering. Since Nixon declared a war on crime there has been an astronomical increase in incarceration of individuals. We were the world leaders in the 1980s, now 30 years later we are the only country who has had an increase in incarceration level aside from the Netherlands. At the same time, over the last 30 years there has been a 28% percent drop in crime!!!! About 2-5% of this drop can be attributed to the increase in imprisonment rate which has gone up about 65%. The worrying part is, due to the poor retributive system currently in place, most people who are imprisoned are not be able to assimilate back into normal life. This causes high rates of recidivism. If we switched to a rehabilitative program (some states are experimenting very successfully) short term economic costs would be higher, but long term social and economic costs would be greatly attenuated. Of course, there are billions of private dollars invested in the prison system so this is unlikely. You can even look to what Cheney did before leaving office to how the political elite manipulate laws to their financial advantage.

The basic point is that crime rates have gone down drastically, but policy has become more strict to no avail except costing the tax payers billions and harming those who are put in prison, their families and the communities they are a part of. Also, note most criminals in prison these days are not their for violent offense. Most likely it is a nonviolent drug crime. If you look into drug laws you will see many are rooted in racism*, misunderstanding of the drug and various lobbyists. Only after government propaganda took effect was
there a moral crusade against the drug which still exists today.

* Don't believe me? Look into the legal history of marijuana where some representatives who voted to make it illegal didn't even know what it was! The target lower class Hispanic immigrants. Another example is the discrepancy between crack (lower class drug) and cocaine laws (higher class drug).

If you are interested in a good book on the subject of crime inequality Punishment and Inequality in America by Bruce Western is a good start.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
Have no fear, I am here!
I always look forward to your comments.:)

I think the revision of drug laws would lead to less criminal activity vis-a-vis property crime to attain drug money. I mean, who needs money for pot when you and your buddies can grow all you want in your own back yard.
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
I always look forward to your comments.:)

I think the revision of drug laws would lead to less criminal activity vis-a-vis property crime to attain drug money. I mean, who needs money for pot when you and your buddies can grow all you want in your own back yard.
I think the last number I saw was Americans spend about 64 billion dollars last year on pot. Imagine the tax revenue that could be had...
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
I think the last number I saw was Americans spend about 64 billion dollars last year on pot. Imagine the tax revenue that could be had...
Imagine the savings to the consumer and increase in disposable income to the real economy if everybody just grew their own.:)

What they're not spending on pot, they'll be spending on munchies.:D
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Imagine the savings to the consumer and increase in disposable income to the real economy if everybody just grew their own.:)
... or just quit smoking it. :eek:
... right along with cigarettes. :D
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
I believe that we have now entered phase three of this thread.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
since so many politicians seem to make a career of campaigning to end poverty. Yet the policies they enact appear determined to perpetuate or increase poverty as if never ending poverty were job security for career politicians. I would argue that the best way to decrease property crime is to create a healthy economy in which the greatest number of people can participate and gain the benefits. Yet that's not the focus of election campaigns or public policy so I don't see us getting there anytime soon. In the meantime, lock your doors and load your weapons.
I agree Dave. The government needs to be needed.

The "War on Drugs" fits my theory perfectly. (see my amateur theory below)
Oh course, you can change that to the "War on Poverty" or "Equal Opportunity or Affirmative Action" programs.
Or almost any government program.

The war on drugs can't end. It's perpetuation ensures too many jobs and endless funding.

My Theory:

A government either exploits a disaster, or creates a disaster to create a reaction. The reaction is then exploited to prime the people for change -- in fact having them begging for it, at which time a "solution" is offered -- the solution the government wants.

In some cases the "solution" is actually not a solution... it appears to be one but actually it will become a problem, which will boil over into a crisis, which then gets a reaction, and then another solution. Which can repeat over and over.

All of this usually escapes detection, because quite simply it can easily be mistaken for an unexpected tragedy, and in the event that a "solution" turns into a problem it's hard to prove as deliberate and can simply be written off as incompetence.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
in the event that a "solution" turns into a problem it's hard to prove as deliberate and can simply be written off as incompetence.
Rick, that's essentially the pattern except for that last bit. In the event that a solution turns into a problem, it was the other party's fault but gov't is still the solution to the problem created by the previous solution.
 
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