hdmi switching vs. pass through

[rudolffischer]

Sense and nonsense of direct DSD decoding

I have had a good look at the DENON manual. Again if signal processing is done there has to be a PCM conversion.

So if you have a receiver you can only play multi channel Direct in DSD if all your speakers have the same sensitivity and all speakers can play full range. Not very useful for most. In practice this means that may be 0.1% of listeners can play properly balanced multichannel SACD. The rest will be forced to convert to PCM. SACD then looses any advantage over DVD audio.

Now I had a hard time understanding this when I set up my studio. I had to have my high powered electrical engineer son go over it in detail. He is a great expert in signal processing, memory development, electromagnetic simulation and advanced programming. He told me that signal processing in DSD requires huge processing power and can not be done in real time.

I do know that when mixing down a multichannel SACD recording to the two channel CD layer it takes extended processing time.

So if a manufacturer wanted to add level and bass management for DSD without converting to PCM then they would have to add analog management just for the SACD playback. I doubt they would consider this justified.

So if a member wants to hear multichannel SACD without PCM conversion, they have to figure out and build their own analog management, like I did.

Thanks for this illumination, TLS Guy. I have been running after a player / receiver combination that does direct DSD decoding for SACD, but realize only now that this will not bring anything in practice as there is no realtime DSD processing on the market today. I will live in peace with PCM converted SACD from now on.
Regards
Rudi

 

[ssu]

HDMI switch

A HDMI pass thru will simply route mulitple sources to a HDTV. There is no audio processing.
A HDMI processing AVR, will actually process the HDMI audio and output DOLBY TRU HD or DTS Master HD.

I have a Yamaha 663 which is a HDMI processing AVR but it only has 2 HDMI inputs so just added a HDMI switch to get 4 sources thru the Yamaha.
Hope this helps.

 

[The Dali]

A HDMI pass thru will simply route mulitple sources to a HDTV. There is no audio processing.
A HDMI processing AVR, will actually process the HDMI audio and output DOLBY TRU HD or DTS Master HD.

I have a Yamaha 663 which is a HDMI processing AVR but it only has 2 HDMI inputs so just added a HDMI switch to get 4 sources thru the Yamaha.
Hope this helps.

Hello - I read this thread, although I got a bit lost during the PCM and various audio decoding parts in pages 3 - 7... my question is more fundamental and probably was covered in one way/shape/form already but I missed it...

If I have an upscaling DVD player hooked up to my amp via HDMI (it is an entry level Denon with HDMI passthrough - no audio) will the audio signal be used at the receiver level? I understand that the audio WON'T be sent to the TV, but do I also have to send the audio from the DVD to the receiver to get sound out of all DVDs?

If so, my induction is that the HDMI inputs for this receiver are video only (as was suggested here) and filter out the audio in ALL cases. So, if I have a HDMI satellite signal going to the receiver for video switching I will need to also send an audio cable(s) to the TV from the satellite box if I want to use the TV's internal speakers? In fact, I would also have to send the audio to the receiver to use the main speakers... In fact, the best setup in that scenario would probably be to send the HDMI directly to the TV and then send the TV's audio back to the receiver so I could choose to use the TV's speakers OR the receiver's main speaker... correct?

 

[djseafood]

Starting to get there

VERY VERY new to this! But I believe The Dali is starting to touch on what I'm interested in finding out (and I have read the entire thread but on only one cup of coffee ) I'm trying to setup a very modest HT. I don't have a 1080p HDTV yet but am sure one day I will. At that point I will also probably get an HDDVD player or BluRay. I will never have a full 7.1 audio setup as there isn't room (and my wife wouldn't like all those speakers) I plan to get a 7.1 receiver that allows me to reassign the rear surrounds for bi-amping the mains (polk Monitor 40s) I'm looking at the Onkyo TX-SR506. Eventually I'll get some Monitor 30s for surrounds. Anyway, my question is this, is the whole reason for sending the HDMI from the source to the receiver to reduce the amount of cables going to the TV, while at the same time handing off the audio to the receiver? I will most likely not have more than 2 HDMI sources (BluRay and HD DVR) hooked up so can I simply run an HDMI from those two sources to the HDTV directly and then use Coaxial audio to get the same quality audio to the receiver?

Thanks in advance for any help and explanation. I do appologize if this has been explained already but my mind is reeling with all these acronmys and version numbers etc. I'm upgrading from an old HK AVR 20 with Pro Logic if that helps you understand where I'm coming from

AJ

 

[bandphan]

The avr20 mkii was a nice little amp You question in regards to the optical is yes that will work. You will not need to bi-amp you speakers, if you feel that more power is in need, chose an avr with pre outs so you can add a seperate power amp.

 

[The Dali]

From what I've learned if you have an emp that just has pass-through, you will only be able to send video to the TV when using the switching. That is fine unless you want to be able to use the TV's speakers for normal viewing.

For setting up two sources - such as a cable box and BluRay you can send both to the receiver and ONE HDMI to the TV. However, if you just have pass-through switching you will always have to turn on the receiver to hear regular TV.

 

[djseafood]

Thank you both for your responses. I still have one question though. If a switching/pass through only receiver is simply doing just that, passing the video through the receiver to the tv, why do you even bother running the sources through the receiver? Why not go directly to the TV with them and then use toslink or digital coaxial audio to the receiver (which you'd have to do anyway right?)

 

[The Dali]

Because if you hook the two sources to the receiver you can switch between them without having to switch at the TV. Plus, if your TV is located on a wall with hideen wires you only need to run one wire to the TV.

 

[djseafood]

Perfect. That's exaclty what I needed to know. So it is a matter of convienience/asthetics. In my setup, my TV is tucked in a cove on a shelf with the A/V equipent on a shelf below. Excess wires is not an issue for me and I'm already trained to use the TV remote to switch video inputs so not a big deal

This forum has succeeded in removing the "deer in the headlights" look off my face. Thanks again!

 

[bandphan]

If you are going to use a universal remote, direct to the tv is no problem, but as mentioned the avr allows ease.

 

[djseafood]

This thread helped me make up my mind and I just ordered a refurbed Onkyo TX-SR506 from shoponkyo.com for $147 with a 2yr extended warranty. Should fit the bill for what I'm trying to do nicely. Since I'll be hooking directly to the TV, no worries about HDMI repeating. Can't wait to put it all together.

 

[The Dali]

Just to add some clarity (hopefully) for newbies... I had originally thought the "passthrough" functionality was specific only to video. Ie, if you connected three HDMI input to a passthrough amplifier only the video signal would pass through to the monitor, and you would have to also connect each device to the amplifier with audio-inputs.

I just fooled with my new toys and found that the video AND audio will passthrough to the monitor and play. I guess the "passthrough" technology means that the amplifier won't decode the audio information supplied in the HDMI connection - just pass it through to the monitor.

In other words, if you wanted to hook up a HD-cable box and a DVD player through the HDMI switching of your amplifier you will be able to watch both using the TV speakers, but you won't be able to use your amplifier and separate speakers unless you also hook the audio portion of those devices directly to the amplifier.

Does that make sense? This is grear news for me, as I thought I would lose the audio by using the HDMI and would not be able to watch TV, for example, using the TV speakers if I used HDMI passthrough switching.

 

[richrebel76]

1st, Im a newbie
2nd, How do you know by looking at specs of a receiver if you the audio will be heard on tv
3rd, is there any difference in sound if you have to use a optical cable or is HDMI processed audio that much better.
4th, I'm not looking to spend a lot of money and it seems the receivers that do process audio are out of my range. If I don't mind hooking suround sound directly to my tv then this HDMI audio concern of mine shouldn't matter, right?

 

[dubandit]

Still Confused

I "think" I understand the difference between HDMI repeater vs HDMI pass-through. What I don't understand is how can a receiver say that it supports the new audio formats and still be an HDMI pass-through receiver? I thought that you can only get the new HD formats if you're reading the sound information from the HDMI cable.

 

[TLS Guy]

I "think" I understand the difference between HDMI repeater vs HDMI pass-through. What I don't understand is how can a receiver say that it supports the new audio formats and still be an HDMI pass-through receiver? I thought that you can only get the new HD formats if you're reading the sound information from the HDMI cable.

They don't and they are stretching the truth!

 

[dubandit]

They don't and they are stretching the truth!

I was thinking about picking up the Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K on clearance. It states that it has the decoders but I was told by someone at BB (and saw online myself) that it is a pass-through receiver. Would I get HD sound to my 6.1 speakers if I used this reciever with HDMI?

With information like this, it's no wonder people are confused.

 

[TLS Guy]

I was thinking about picking up the Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K on clearance. It states that it has the decoders but I was told by someone at BB (and saw online myself) that it is a pass-through receiver. Would I get HD sound to my 6.1 speakers if I used this reciever with HDMI?

With information like this, it's no wonder people are confused.

No you would not. Only the picture passes through anyway.

 

[ssu]

HDMI switching

Pass Thru only only allows you to switch mulitple HDMI source directly to the HDTV. THere is no audio processing for the HDMI.

THe HDMI processing ones have switching as will as process the HD Master Audio and DOLBY Tru HD.

I use a NON -HDMI audio receiver its about 5 years old but has optical audio in.
I have several HDMI sources so I connect the HDMI sources thru a HDMI switch which allows me to switch 4 HDMI and 4 optical audio.

 

[lsiberian]

Pass Thru only only allows you to switch mulitple HDMI source directly to the HDTV. THere is no audio processing for the HDMI.

THe HDMI processing ones have switching as will as process the HD Master Audio and DOLBY Tru HD.

I use a NON -HDMI audio receiver its about 5 years old but has optical audio in.
I have several HDMI sources so I connect the HDMI sources thru a HDMI switch which allows me to switch 4 HDMI and 4 optical audio.

old thread. *cough *cough

 

[rivrbyte]

Yamaha RX-V665



I just purchased this AVR -
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=5028057&CTID=5000300&ATRID=1000&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE

After going round and round trying to find a receiver that would let me listen to either the TV speakers or the AVR, without having to use an optical TOS audio from Display to AVR, I was told this AVR would do the trick. I have not hooked it up yet. I have a samsung on the wall,with one (1) HDMI out from display to the TW DVR box for now.

When I do hook it all up, I would connect all to the AVR
HDMI TV,
BD player,
TW/DVD cable box,
Progressive DVD-CD player (component)
...all into the Yamaha AVR.
__________________________________
On the AVR Features:
HDMI
High Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) is the first and only digital interface to combine uncompressed high-definition video, multi-channel audio and intelligent format and command data in a single digital interface. HDMI switching, providing the most advanced method of delivering high quality video signals to a home theater system to enable the reproduction of DVD and satellite TV sources with HD quality. HDMI can also send the digital audio signals from sources such as DVD Audio, CD, Dolby Digital and DTS to provide simple components connections.

HDMI Pass-through •
HDMI Up Conversion • (with upscaling up to 1080p)
_______________________________________

By looking at these specs, does anyone think I'll have any problems with connections?

This is going to be 6.1 speaker system. Thanks